Scotty,

Just WHERE on ANY public land has a tree stand been set out for use by any hunter to enjoy? I know in Michigan one must label their stand with their name and address. A sure sign it belongs to someone who has intentions to hunt in it.

I have to ask you if you help yourself to a "vacant" tree stand on public lands thinking doing so is "OK"? Do you? And if so, when the person who set it up happens along do you argue with them and then set off to shoot them?

Though I do not hunt public land, if I did and came across a vacant tree stand I would not dishonor the hunter who set it up. It's not my stand. Perhaps I have a different way of doing things?

This person could have been of any race, that is not a barrier to psychopathic tendencies. I think it is possible he was out to kill humans and not deer. It appears he could have done it before and was not caught. Time will only tell on this scenario.....

The sad thing is this incident could, and I say could, give the anti-hunters a few bad ideas. I just hope it doesn't.

I agree Paul. I lived in Tucson too. So did my wife, well, while we were engaged anyway.

The whole "no habla ingles" line was right on the money.

And quite frankly, the Asian's are just as good at "me no unnastand" And no, I'm no bigot or racist. Just personal observation.

I've met quite a few 'slick' individuals that hide behind their heritage (for a lack of a better word).

I agree here in the west ie, Oregon if I'm walking along and I find a stand I'm not going to say hey a tree stand and crawl up it and sit there. I'm thinking this is someone stand and leave it alone. Then again we don't use tree stands when we hunt mule deer. That is another thing if you see a hunter in a area I usaully leave and leave that area to the hunter already there. You also know when you are about to enter private property cause every ten feet that what it seems like there is a don't tresspass sign or no hunting allowed. You also have landowners who think they own all the land even BLM and they will hang don't tresspass signs up since we know for a fact this isn't private property we tear down the signs. I had landowners tell us that hill there is mine when in fact his fence line runs up to it and they will chase off hunters. One time I had permission to cross my friends property to get to this BLM land, when I got to it there was guy already hunting there, so I decided to just head on back the guy started walking up to me and said you know you are private property I told him this is BLM land and he said there was know BLM land anywhere since I didn't have a map I left. This guy is notorious for being a real asshole, he is one of those landowners that believes since his property borders BLM that land is his to. At least I can say we have a little better edicate out west. Like I said a little better.

Ann,



I thought you were familar with bait. I was agreeing with you, just taking a slightly different tact. If one wanted to provoke someone they would "borrow" their tree stand. Once this someone was provoke they could be shot in "self defense".



With regard to using a tree stand. I detest them and to date I am proud to say I have NEVER EVER used one!



GPS7,



Robgunbuilder dubbed me "ASS_CLOWN". I would truly love to see you post ANY of my bigoted posts! Problem is they do not exist. I am most certainly NO BIGOT, elitist snob yes, definitely, but not a bigot! By the way, I have known many white hunters who completely disregard property and hunting laws. So the Hmong have not monopoly on that. My question is to why the States aren't doing something about it!! That is afterall one of the reason we pay taxes, law enforcement. Then again you are "safely" ignoring me.



ASS_CLOWN

Ann,

In Illinois on state owned and managed conservation areas, tree stands are set up for any one to use. Also duck blinds are available, but you have to provide the decoys. In the case of tree stands, you must register at the local office before you hunt the state land. The tree stands are available on a first come basis.

To the best of my knowledge, this is not the case in Wisconsin.

I find it interesting, all the chatter about this sad incident. From what I have read, very little makes any sense. The media is doing it's usual half-baked job of reporting the available facts.

Pete

Marianne;



Welcome to the Forum first off.



To answer some of your questions,which I gathered were directed to my attention. Correct me if I am wrong.



First of all I would not view you as a left wing liberal. I am all for tolerance. Many people who know me don't think I am conservative enough. They say they have a tough time figuring me out. I am tolerant and accepting of others, until it gets to the point of defying rationale. If it is no longer functional, it becomes dysfunctional.



Some groups of people do not make the effort to assimilate into mainstream society, because they learn that are far more benefits by not doing so. Don't speak English and some one will more than happily defend you saying you did not understand the laws. The Democratic left wants to keep handing out freebes to justify their existance, and their platform. Case in point, one of the article links posted by Saeed, had an interview with the family over this. Vang's daughter fielded the interview. She looks to be in her early 20s or so. Vang is 36. He came here in 1980. So he has been here for 25 years. He should be much more American than Hmong at this point as his contact with American society has been in his life since he was 11.



Yet at 36 he has a daughter who is looking to be in her early 20s, lets say even late teens. That makes him being a dad at about age 18 or less.



Secondly, his mother would be say 20 yrs older than him or so. If he got here when he is 11, it would be safe to say that his mother has been here at the same time. So she has been in the USA since 1980. IN the article it said she declined comment, thru an INTERPRETER, since she did not speak English!!!



Do you blame an immigrant for not speaking English after 25 yrs or blame society for not giving her an environment where she had to learn to?. People howl about Racism, and we should not mention it. Yet people from Laos can live here for 25 year, and still not have picked up ANY of the language.

So her RACE and ETHNIC group seem to be catered too just fine.



So where is the line between tolerance and liberalism, have one side start and the other side end?



I blame the leftist liberal system A LOT more than I blame the immigrants. They are going to take the path of least resistance, and what is going to yield the best results for them. If not speaking English is making them better off, why learn it???



How many people who are Americans, native born and been here for generations, and got pulled over by a cop, or got caught for a game violation, could simply get out of it, by stating in anything besides English that they are guilty only because they did not understand?



Hmongs is St Paul were caught dealing drugs in the projects in St. Paul and their defence was that they did not know that those drugs were illegal and they consider them part of their religious ceremonies. Verdict, NOT GUILTY, and they continued to deal the illegal drugs in the projects and the cops could not do a thing about it. Yet the Hmong were not the only users and purchasers of those drugs. Plenty of other minorities in the projects ( and I am sure 'poor' white trash) in the projects were also buying those same drugs.

And I am sure it was not for religious reasons.



Multiple people of Asian immigration have spoke up on this thread also, yet they have managed to become part of our society. They are appalled about it as anyone else is.



Why do we make excuse for one group while other groups want to be part of the American society? Case in point, in California, the Chinese have probably sacrificed more to the building and developement of California than any other ethic group.



Yet they have to go onto waiting lists to get into the University system in California for tuition assistance and scholarships and are also required to score much higher on the same testing, than the Hispanic or Afro American students are. Just for the same opportunity. Do you see the Chinese out protesting and and causing social unrest? NO.



Do you see hispanic groups and the NAACP out complaining when California tried to address that disparity? YOU BET.



Spots could not be given to the Chinese students, even tho the Afro American group and the Hispanic groups did not even have enough applicants to come forward for the California Board of Regents to meet their minority quotas that were Federally mandated.



Yet the Hispanic groups and the NAACP were crying that to give those seats to the Chinese were destroying the economic hopes and dreams of Hispanic and Black students,

and pushing those communities deeper into poverty!



Naw Seafire is rational.



I can't see taking food out of my children's mouths and clothes off of their backs to give them to other kids whose parents refuse to work. This is compounded when those people are not even natives to the USA..



When I see an immigrant who has much more than I have, and he has only been here for 20 years, I don't complain. I stand in awe and respect, and really wish that person can set and example for others, including Native born Americans of any color or ethnic background who are too lazy to get off their fanny and contribute to society instead of live off of it.



I have had my own personal run ins with the State of Minnesota on child support issues. I get laid off of a job and provide all the proof they demand from the sources they demanded it from. They throw that proof out the window as unacceptable, because my ex wife tells them ( and they require no proof from her) that I am employed somewhere.



So after getting put thru ringer by their court system, and then them also ILLEGALLY, putting my girlfriend under the microscope and going thru her financial and personals records, and finding nothing, I get some judge stating that IF I AGREE TO ENROLL IN A STATE SPONSERED ALCOHOL OR DRUG TREATMENT PROGRAM, that all of the back child support that I have been assessed since I was laid off would be forgiven.



My response was that I appreciate the offer. However since I do not drink alcohol, hadn't in 10 yrs and was never an abuser of it, and I have never used drugs period, that It would be kinda of stupid to put me in a treatment program.



The judges response was that since I was not "willing to be cooperative" that he was going to assess me child support arrearages that amounted to 400% of the money I had actually made during that period, and that I would also be charged 12 % annual interest until I had completely paid that "arrearages" off, In the mean time even tho I was still unemployed that, he was still going to assess the child support that had been assessed to me before I had been laid off, PLUS the state mandated annual cost of living increases.



Since I was from Virginia originally, the same judge also court ordered that I go to a class to test my comprehension of the English language, which I attended for a week. He was rationale was maybe I was some dumb southern hayseed who did not speak the same English he did. Well the civil war has only been over for 130 yrs at the time, but still anyone from the northern states, the more educated they are, the LESS educated they seem to think people born and raised below the Mason Dixon line are.



After passing that course and the instructors rolling their eyes on why I was even in there. ( however they did appreciate my presence when I assisted them in conducting the class by helping out those immigrants who were having trouble with English), Next I am court ordered to go to a course for 3 weeks which accessed my reading and comprehension ability. The target level is 3rd grade reading skills if that give you a clue of what a fun 3 weeks that was. Once again the instructors were shocked I was even sent there, but were greatful for the assistance I gave to the overload of students they got stuck with for those 3 weeks.



Even the dumbest ones in the class wondered WHO DID I PISS OFF???



Once again, liberalism and government at its finest!



Later I was paying $500.00 a month on child support for a daughter who was out of the house, graduated High School and working managing a 250 unit Senior Assisted Living Facility and making $32,500 a year. But yet the State of Minnesota still had me assessed for child support and refused to drop it!



So my negative attitudes toward the insanity of government, and my attitudes to tolerance is the way to be until it gets absurd, has been bought and paid for in my life, IN SPADES!



When I was born in this country in 1952 the average American paid 4 cents of every dollar he made in Taxes. Today at aged 52, the average American pays almost 50 cents in every dollar he makes in taxes. They are always whinning they are broke still. That is a 1200% increase yet no where near the 1200 % increase in services, that I don't want any way.



That 1200 % increase pays for all this 1960s Generated Lyndon Johnson's GREAT SOCIETY, and all the welfare programs that have been created in Washington. The welfare programs that have made millions of people in this country decide why do they have to work? It also has provided with millions of immigrants from third world countries, to come to the USA and never have to work. And even tho they live in poor standards by our standards., it is heaven compared to where they came from.



As it said in the biblical proverb; catch a fish for a man and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and feed him for a life time. The government and liberals, are of the first school, I am of the second.



And In conclusion, as a woman who hunts and fishes and reloads etc, strikes me as YOU would be the IDEAL catch for 50% or more of the guys in here! YOU don't drive a new 4 x 4 do you? That would make you PERFECT, for even more of the members on this forum.!!!



Once again, welcome girl!



cheers

seafire

A very well written couple of posts. Seafire, I must assume that if you are unemployed/underemployed you have a good reason to be so and perhaps that is why the judge(s) have hit you with the book over not paying your child support. Yes, I know child support situations work both ways but it just does not have to be this complicated. It is the system that needs a fixin! For the life of me I cannot see why a simple divorce requires thousands of dollars and several trips to the courthouse! Yes, children and property may make it a little complex but one time should be enough and if additional trips are required by your lawyer to FIX things in the original documents those trips should be FREE. Again a very good response to some complex questions in your post and that of Marianne.

YOU aren't anti liberal: You are a know it all elitist Shithead.

If I am called a racist by guys like you, I will take it as a compliment.

NO I have never hunted on my own private land. The 2,000 acres owned by my family in central Oregon is not posted at all. It is lease for cattle grazing, and that is about it.

Yeah it has deer that wander thru there, never saw a reason to go over and hunt it in the 9 years I have lived in Oregon. Why drive 200 miles to shoot a deer no bigger than the ones around the town I live in?

But then I am not classy enough to have a handle like ASS Clown because I don't feel like being one.

I am not going to put you on ignore, I actually read some of your posts to see what the dipshits on the forum think about certain subjects. The Bizarre makes us appreciate reality a little more.

seafire

My $0.02 worth! He should die in hell! Our country is living its last breath as being "politically correct"! Wisconsin is under the control of politicians (lawyers) just like the rest of our wonderful country. Until we come to grips with the legal profession in this great country we will all suffer - look in the mirror and if you voted for any politician at any level of govt. he/she is 70%+ chance of having a law degree! Is that separation of power?

seafire/B17G,

I an most definitely anti-liberal! I am also an "elitist shithead"!!

My handle is a courtesy to and to honor a request by, Robgunbuilder. He likes it and I do to. "ASS_CLOWN" just fits the internet to a "T".

If you cannot keep your mouth shut, and Vang gets off, you have NO ONE to blame but yourself and those like you.

By the way, does your family own or lease the 2000 acres, and wherebouts in Oregon are they?

How old are you anyway, 25, 30?

ASS_CLOWN

Seafire, most excellent post.

seafire,
Very well said.

Seafire in 2008!

Most of the immagrants do not pay attention to the game laws.I have seen this 1st hand in WI and IL.2nd most are signed up for wellfair and medacare and what ever else they can get there hands on.That we have to PAY FOR.And you wounder why some people are p----d off.I for 1 would love to not have to pay for for insurance get free checks every month send my kid to college all for free.And oh ya for petes sake if you come to live here learn to speek english.

Phew, for a moment I was afraid that I had stumbled into some radical right wing, chauvenistic forum, just at the time where I was enjoying the time I spent here. Thank goodness I was wrong!

Seafire, social injustices are not just perpetrated by the liberal left, or the left at all, for that matter. Just as mental illness is colorblind, so, is stupidity and lack of common sense. I can understand your furor, and, as has already been stated, it is the system that needs fixing.

What is interesting, however, is your response towards immigrants et al, that refuse to assimilate into society and the local culture at large. Recently in the Netherlands a popular film maker was assassinated by a radical muslim group. The population is now demanding from the government a sharp decrease in immigration by those groups, including muslims, that are not likely to assimilate into the culture of the Netherlands. Your response is quite similar.

As an immigrant, I came here in 1980 as an adult, I have always made an effort to blend in. After all, I started as a guest, and in order to be accepted you must do as the Romans do in Rome.

What I see now around me is people entering this country who make absolutely no effort to act like a 'Roman in Rome'. In New York City, where I live, there are large enclaves of minorities from a particular country who completely dominate these areas in terms of culture, language, behavior etc. What is happening is that the 'regular' population avoids these areas, allowing them to expand and, in some cases, even gain a foothold in local politics, which gives them an aura of legitimacy, despite frequent, and sometimes open and obvious, lawlessness.

Obviously, the degeneration of the traditional middle class is what is at stake, both in the Netherlands, as well as here. It used to be that the middle class represented the backbone of society in terms of values and moral fabric. In my view, the middle class transcends color and racial bounderies. Respect for the people and property in a community does not depend on ones racial makeup, once the core values are accepted. I always believed that holding on to these basic values would gain me a foothold in almost any society and allow me to integrate.

The active participants of the middle class are now rapidly dwindling and are overtaken by other groups. I guess this is the start of a revolution of the middle class! :-) The answers are not easily available or implemented as social issues take decades to iron out.

Seafire, regardless of the above, I am not that much younger than you are, I was born in 1959. What in the world were you doing in the 70s that you became such a staunch anti-liberal. Perhaps the term 'liberal' gets applied to every situation that is not favorable? I would be mortified if someone would call me a republican or worse, conservative. It stops progress!!!! Do you really have to be such a liberal-basher???

Yes, I do own a 4x4, always did. But don't laugh, it is not a big, macho vehicle. I have good driving skills, so I have no need to intimidate people to give me space on the road, despite the fact that I am a natural blonde :-). I have a fairly new (1999) Suzuki Sidekick, and love it.

Thank you for the compliment, but I must object. The majority of the people in this forum would not want me. Not because of my physical attributes, which are fine for my age, but because I absolutely, and I mean absolutely cannot cook!

Thanks for accepting this 'pest' into your forum. Keep in mind that I love playing the devil's advocate, especially if there is valid point worth debating.

Enjoy the holidays, everyone

Marianne,

Well first of all,I don't think many people on here will consider you a pest. If you consider yourself a pest, you haven't been here long enough to see the likes of Mortie, et al.

As far as not being able to cook, well, that is not that much of a handicap for a female in todays world. I don't cook real well, but I can MicroWave with the best of them.

Your question of "what did you ( me) do in the 1960s to become such an awful anti Liberal?" That caused me to reflect quite a bit for a good answer.

First, I don't consider myself " Anti Liberal". What I am against is a lot of People who Call themselves "Liberals."
Liberal is by definition tolerant of other people and other ideas.
People who call themselves "liberals" are anything but that.
Like YOUR Senator from NY, the Dear Mrs. Clinton; She is NOT TOLERANT of anyone who does not share her ideas and ideals. I find her as a post child for my concept and many other people's concept of a "liberal". As I pointed out, I am very tolerant until it crosses the line of sanity and common sense. Like I can move to any other country and get on the same program that immigrants from the third world get in Europe or North America ( Canada and USA) or Australia and New Zealand.

As far as what did I do in the 1960s to get the way I am and think the way I do??? Never thought about it until your question really. Thank you for bring that thought to the forefront of my mind. A little reflection and I can see why I am like I am.

I was living in Virginia from 1960 to 1963 outside of Washington DC. Virginia is my home state. I am actually direct descendant of the first settlers at Jamestowne in 1607.
My dad was an Air Force officer and my mom worked at the Pentagon, as a secretary for some 4 star generals.

At age 11 in 1963 my dad received a transfer for 3 yrs to England ( RAF Alconbury). I lived in a town called Peterborough for 6 months and then a small town called Eynesbury ( with one pub! that small) for 2 1/2 yrs. I lived off base that entire time but went to school on base.

Eynesbury was fairly close to Cambridge. Our neighborhood was upscale by English standards. Most of the people that lived in that neighborhood who were foreign were actually professors at the Universities in Cambridge. Most "foreign"
were actually from the Commonwealth Nations. We also had a lot of families who were from Ireland, Wales and Scotland living there that also taught at Cambridge. About 10 American families lived in the area all attached to the military ( Air Force).

England greatly added to my education in life. I lived there from the influencial ages of 11 to 14. One gathers a lot of ideals that one carries for life at those ages. For One it taught me tolerance for other people's countries and cultures.

It also taught me to be respectful when I was in another persons country, of their country. Unlike many 3rd world people who come to the USA, Canada, Europe and Aust/NZ and criticize it to no end while milking the daylights out of welfare benefits.

In England I also had many friends who were English kids whose fathers had to work so hard just to have a fraction of what we had in life. I learned toughness and fortitude from the Irish and Scotch and Australians. ( and a stray South African).

I was also around Arabs and Indians and Pakistanis for the first time in life. Many I saw did not exactly come to a new place, and leave their homeland behind at all. I was a kid, but I could easily see they detested English or American kids.
There kids always had a pompous attitude toward anyone who was not from their home country.

I saw my English friends parents work hard and then saw the Indians and Pakistanis ( the most common foreign, non commonwealth people immigrants in the Area) get a lot of stuff free from the English government. Didn't seem fair to me, but it did not effect me personally. It just didn't seem fair.

Two summers I got to go to the continent and see other countries. France was my first shock in life. I formed opinions of the French at 12 that they have not disproved yet in my lifetime. One of the first places I saw in France were the beaches of Dunkirk, and then the American cemetary from the Normandy landings and all the graves of American soldiers who had died. Then I went to Paris and saw how the French almost all seemed to have a chip on their shoulder and dislike if not hate for Americans. As a 12 year old I knew what grateful was and I knew what ungrateful was. The French were the latter.

I had also learned in England that kids my age, liked to pick fights with people from other countries to act like if they could beat you, your country was inferior to theirs. Well I was lucky enough to be a big kid. One of my first fights in Eynesbury was with a kid who was my size who took away the misster, that my English friend with asthma had, when he had an attack. The other kids did this just to taunt the poor kid having an asthma attack. Well I got it back and then the biggest kid in the group just attacked me. We fought for 30 minutes to a standstill.

Later I learned he was 17 and I was 12. I also learned he was scared to death of me because I was the first kid to ever fight back. He was a dirty fighter ,but his attacked were either blocked by me or missed their mark. And I punched back and punched back hard. I was pissed about their mistreatment of my friend unde those circumstances.
From that fight I learned a lot. Stand your ground and a lot of tough guys turn out to be cowards.

In France, I was attacked by French kids, always highly outnumbered, for just being an American. However I also learned not running away, and taking a few punches and flattening one or two of them with my punches, normally had them running away, even tho I was outnumbered anywhere from 5 to one to 8 to one.

I saw kids in France and England both only had toughness in gangs.
Switzerland and Austria the people were all great and acted like I was a guest in their home, or Country. Those people taught me what courtesy and respect was on an international basis.

Italy the people were kinda comical to me. The Italians with all the hand waving and the yelling them followed by the hugs etc. I just looked at the Italians as passionate.

I saw very little disrespect in Italy. Only by Italian communists in Northern Italy. After dinner in a restaurant, about 15 or so Italians came over to our dinner table, put a glass in front of my dad, and filled it full of wine.( after we had eaten, out of respect I guess). The Italian then filled his wine glass and then drank the entire thing down and Said" Me Communist!"

My dad drained his glass in the same way and said " Me NOT communist"

The family went upstairs to our room for the evening. My dad was down there evidently having a drinking contest with the communist italians. At midnight, only my dad and the one who spoke English were left standing. They were both 12 sheets to the wind.

The Italian realized I had come to help my dad home, so he does one last round and puts his arm around my dad, and tells him "you good Yankee Pig!". My dad does the same and tells him " you good communist Whop!". They were both laughing hysterically.

That is an example that I saw in Italy. They may disagree with you, or even dislike what you represent, but they showed tolerance and respect to you without biligerence.

The Germans were the same. I loved Germany and Austria!!!
The land, the people, everything. The Germans were excellent hosts. I only got into one fight with a German kid, who got into some squabble with my younger brother who did not speak german. This kid was older than my brother by a lot and older than me. He was also bigger than me.

With this kid, I learned that this German did not take off at a few punches like English kids or especially French kids. We fought to a standstill until an adult German broke it up. He asked us what it was about. All said and done the German kid apologized, and I did the same in German after the guy told me how to say it in German. The German kid smiled when I did so in his language. We did not speak the same language but he and I became good friends for the last two weeks I was at Berchtesgaden.

After living in Europe, I don't look at 'Americans' the way most Americans do. I learned vast differences in people and their attitudes in Europe, depending on their culture and their home country. Some good and some bad.

As an adult, not much has changed those impressions.
But I look much more closely at ethnic groups I meet than others may do. I look for their strong points, but unfortunately the bad also comes to the surface also.

Anyone overseas can easily call us BAD Americans. Yet if I criticize someone from another culture over here, some liberal is ready to tell me what a bigot and racist I am.

In Europe I also learned to have a strong interest in government. It started when I was growing up in Virginia. Field trips to Washington DC were all the time, living 30 miles away. As were field trips to Williamsburg, Jamestowne and countless Civil War Battlefields. All of those places had my ancestors who are part of that history.

In Europe, field trips to London were monthly. The Houses of Parliament, Westminister Abbey, the Tower of London, the Imperial War Museum. 3 times every two months our family went to London or somewhere for the weekend. Tons of field trips to Buckingham Palace, Stratford Upon Avon. I had a lot of exposue to things that most parents could only dream of giving to their kids.

Growing up in the 1960s I have also been involved in Racial intergration of schools in 3 diffferent places. Florida, Georgia and in High School in North Carolina. I did not see any advantage or bussing kids to one school because it had better academics. Someone had to still go to the poorer school. I compliment Fayetteville NC for when they had to integrate their schools, they updated their entire school district to the standards of the best white schools they had.
Then any student could go to any school he wanted to in the city. Each had a specialty when it came to high schools. Some were college prep some were focusing more on blue collar trades and education. But I saw Equality, by each persons choice. That made a lot of common sense.

Then In college in Boston, I watch Boston try to integrate their schools in 1971 and 1972 to meet Federal mandated integration standards. I never saw that much parental and student resistance in the south to integration! Yet we down south were suppose to be the rednecks! I don't think Boston has still met Federal integration standards in 2004 that were mandated in 1971! Anyone correct me if I am wrong.

So after the book on the life and times of Seafire, A
Boring story if there ever was one!, I hope that answers your questions of where was I in the 1960s and what formed my views in life. It is those views that those who claim to be "liberals" in todays world don't get my approval much.

As one Canadian girl told me that I worked with, in a company who was home officed in Canada a few years ago:

"YOU are one of the most bleeding heart liberialistic, conservative Redneck Republicans I have ever met!"

Nope I am just practical in life. I am out to harm no one. And I don't tolerate someone getting a benefit at the expense of another person. I also pointed out to Johanne, that REDNECK and Republican are NOT interchangable words like most Liberal Democrats act like they are.

And in those life time and experiences in England! Well I got to meet Dudley Moore 3 times at parties before he got famous, I have also gotten to shake hands with the Beattles in the Tower of London, when me and a friend went into a closed area because the Beattles were in there for one of their films. I have seen Queen Elizabeth several times.
Seen the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace multiple times, what a treat that is.

Before the age of 12 I have climbed to the top of the Washington Memorial and the Eiffel Tower using the stairs all the way up.

My chief nemisis when I was in the second grade, who taught me how to fight as he use to pound my ass on a regular basis was none other than Terry Bradshaw or Pittsburgh Steelers and 1010-220 fame with ALF!

So In retrospect, I have had a good education to become such a conservative right wing redneck!

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Seafire Vs Hillary In 2008? Pistols at Dawn at say 50 paces?

Sign me up coach! I don't smoke!!!

seafire


PS Dan, You want to be my gentleman attendee at that one?