I just saw a program on Animal Planet. OK so Jaguars are in AZ and NM. A lion guide was running hounds and found one. There is a whole project going on now to keep tabs on them. They are traveleling north. They have pictures of it near the border of Mexico. They also have video of one in a tree in AZ. Imagine Jaguar hunting in the US in a couple decades...That would be Awesome. Pretty cool.

Actually Jaguars are just regaining ground they once held. Used to be around the turn of the century ( I mean 1900 ) they were found in New Mexico, Arizona and I believe in Texas, all in fairly small numbers of course but they were there. You can look in the Boone & Crockett records and see some taken in the early 1900's in AZ that made the book.

Yeah I should have added again to the topic. Good to see they are comin back.

I love hearing stuff like this! There are probably more of them around than people think. I hope so, and I really hope that some assholes don't start shooting them.
Cat's are funny, leopards are still showing up in places that they were thought to be extinct, like Turkey, Armenia, and Israel.

Warner Glenn was the photographer if I am not mistaken. Its a great shot of the Jaguar out on a ledge.

There are Jaguars in and around one of the ranches I lease in Mexico. About 4 yrs ago a cowboy from a neighboring ranch brought in a picture a Jaguar he killed. It was a HUGE cat that had been killing cattle or so he claimed. He had shot it the previous year and said that he finds tracks every now and again.

Drum

Heck we have Jags here in Oregon....

one of our neighbors have one...

Ever since I was a kid and lived in England for 3 yrs... It has been my favorite CAR....

They have been around here for a long time....

cheers
seafire

I did a research project that just concluded using DNA sequencing analysis of hairs taken from hair snares set-up through a number of national parks throughout the southwest, unfortunately we did not get any hits from jags but they are definetly in southern AZ.....

We did find tons of gray foxes, a few cougars, coyotes, bobcats and 3 black bears. Interestingly we also got hits from elk, mule deer, whitetail and a domestic (or perhaps feral cat)

IV

Here is a Jaguar that I spotted in San Diego last week.

No, the picture above is not a Jaguar. I was blessed to see a presentation to SCI by a biologist who has recently started a study of the re-emergence of the Jaguar (spotted - actually rings) in Southern Arizona. According to his presentation, the natural habitat of the Jaguar in the 1800's included NM, AZ, & TX and possibly further north.

After the discovery of Jaguars by a noted mountain lion outfitter, this bioligist had planted a number of IR activated cameras in the southern AZ desert, with support ($$) from the outfitter and another interested party. He found numerous sightings of Jaguars and developed an identification process based on the spot patterns. He then could distinguish if he was filming the same or other Jaguars.

It was a fascinating presentation and I am to believe that SCI has elected to fund resources for the biologist to futher his research.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Heck we have Jags here in Oregon....

one of our neighbors have one...

Actually, there may be a misnomer involved here. Jaguars have never lived in Oregon, based on what I have been lead to believe. We sometimes are tempted to equate a Jaguar, puma, mountain lion, panther to be one and the same, but the Jaguar is an entirely different animal.

The Jaguar is similar to the leopard having spots/ which really in the case of the Jaguar are rings, not spots. A fascinating animal whose range is throughout Central America and Mexico and at one time inhabited SW United States, and making a re-emergence into USA.

I hate to rain on your parade but a lot of Jaguars are actually solid black, its merely a morphological trait. In many cases if you look closely at the hide you can still make out the rings--spots whatever you want to call them.

But yes, you are absolutely correct, they are not a mountain lion, cougar etc. A "Panther" is not a species, the term is used often to describe a black leopard or a black jaguar. It is also used to describe the Florida sub-species (if you believe the justification for the classification) of puma concolor (cougar)...

IV

quote:

Originally posted by Mighty Joe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Heck we have Jags here in Oregon....

one of our neighbors have one...

Actually, there may be a misnomer involved here. Jaguars have never lived in Oregon, based on what I have been lead to believe. We sometimes are tempted to equate a Jaguar, puma, mountain lion, panther to be one and the same, but the Jaguar is an entirely different animal.

The Jaguar is similar to the leopard having spots/ which really in the case of the Jaguar are rings, not spots. A fascinating animal whose range is throughout Central America and Mexico and at one time inhabited SW United States, and making a re-emergence into USA.

Joe

Re Read my post....

cheers
seafire

Jaguars and leopards can definitely be black in color. I love the way Jaguars look. To me they are like pit bulls with their huge jaw muscles. Truly awesome animals. Hope they make a solid come back.

Also apparently there are lots of them in mexico.

I have heard rumors of jagarundis being spotted in my area but the report of jaguars is encouraging. I'm sure some of the larger deer outfits won't be too pleased though. I think the spotting of a melanistic jaguar would probably raise quite a stir.

Eric

Here is one of the game camera photos that was published of an Arizona jaguar.

Bob



Wednesday, February 18, 2004
ARIZONA'S JAGUAR TERRITORY: Out to spot a spotted cat

STEPHEN H. BUCK
Special for the Citizen

At the northern tip of the 118,000-acre Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge, west of Arivaca, lies beautiful Brown Canyon, a major desert riparian canyon with numerous smaller tributaries into the Baboquivari Mountains.
But it is the next canyon north of this one that has the most mystique because of the almost mystical jaguar.

The updated story of Brown Canyon's Jaguar Canyon Trail began in 1996 when Tucson researcher Jack Childs took a now-much-publicized videotape and still photographs of a jaguar that his dogs treed just north of the canyon.

Two years later Buenos Aires manager Wayne Shifflet revealed that a cowboy rounding up leftover cattle came upon a jaguar dining on a deer carcass. There have also been several unsubstantiated sightings in the area since.

For the spotted jaguars (Panthera onca) living in the Sierra Madre Mountains of northern Chihuahua and Sonora, Mexico, the Baboquivari Mountains may have been and still are part of a northern migratory route that passes through or near Jaguar Canyon. The animals have been known to roam hundreds of miles from their home territory in search of food or a mate.

The plentiful deer and javelina of the current refuge may be enticing menu items for the Mexican cats. The rugged, forested desert canyons might also provide protected habitats for these secretive felines, along with the occasional stream-fed watering pool.

The jaguar is the largest naturally occurring cat in the Western Hemisphere and is the only Western Hemisphere feline that roars. Individuals can reach a weight of up to 300 pounds.

To probe the mystery if only in the imagination, Shifflet and Refuge recreation planner Bonnie Swarbrick led a select Jaguar Canyon exploration party recently into a scenic forest land of sycamore and oak. All of Brown Canyon is open to hikers only by reservation.

A stream was visible above ground in only a few spots, but the lush riparian foliage suggested that water was not far beneath the ground. High grasses, scratching shrubs, and poison ivy along the rough trail slowed the hikers down in a few spots.

There were snakeweed plants, undesirable invasive species that can only be eradicated by fire. Hair-snare traps placed by the Refuge and the Arizona Game & Fish Department were evident low on several tree trunks - at big-cat rubbing level - but none has any hair strands or tufts snagged in their velcro collecting panels.

The hike is moderate, about three miles one-way and 700 feet in elevation gain, leading to a high overlook near the origin of the canyon. There are spectacular views through Brown Canyon eastward across the vast refuge to the Santa Rita Mountains.

The Buenos Aires Visitor Center, 30 miles south of Three Points on Arizona Highway 186, is planning a jaguar exhibit. It will feature a jaguar mount fabricated by using a genuine skin confiscated by U.S. Customs as it was being smuggled into the country from Brazil.

One can appreciate the majesty and immensity of this incredible feline only by standing in front of such a life-size specimen. The experience almost defies description. This is definitely not your standard neighborhood stray cat.

Stephen H. Buck leads "The Pathfinders," a private Tucson hiking group.

So what was Bagheera in The Jungle Book (animated version)?

Either a melanistic leopard or tiger.....

IV

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
Either a melanistic leopard or tiger.....

IV

Is there such a thing as a melanistic (black) tiger? I've never heard of one but that doesn't mean much!

- stu

Yes, very very rare.....

IV

Wolfgar:

If, indeed, it is true that jaguars are back in the US, I wouldn't count too much on people not shooting them. The Indians of the Darien country (Panama) says he hunts man. ( I have been in the Darien country) It's why the early Spaniards called him "tigre" (tiger). (They knew perfectly well that he wasn't the tiger of Asia but they were comparing him in ferocity) He is a very aggressive beast ( far more so than a mountain lion) - and that's why he was rapidly wiped out as people began to settle. I shudder to think about jaguar wandering the US southwest. ( I can just imagine the bunny huggers advising the hikers: "Talk to him quietly") He is the THIRD largest cat in the world (after the lion and the tiger). (often hitting 300 lbs) I'm with you in wanting any animal on this earth to survive - but let's leave the jaguar where he is today ( I hope) - in jungle country far away from human beings.

Hey Gerry, do we read the same posts or what!
I agree, and hopefully the Jag's secretive nature will keep him away from humans, but you are right, some asshole will shoot one sooner or later. About 10 years ago, an Israeli soldier shot one of their few remaining leopards, saying that it became aggressive towards him....until it was determined that the cat was really old, could barely walk, and was deaf.

quote:

Originally posted by gerry375:
Wolfgar:

If, indeed, it is true that jaguars are back in the US, I wouldn't count too much on people not shooting them. The Indians of the Darien country (Panama) says he hunts man. ( I have been in the Darien country) It's why the early Spaniards called him "tigre" (tiger). (They knew perfectly well that he wasn't the tiger of Asia but they were comparing him in ferocity) He is a very aggressive beast ( far more so than a mountain lion) - and that's why he was rapidly wiped out as people began to settle. I shudder to think about jaguar wandering the US southwest. ( I can just imagine the bunny huggers advising the hikers: "Talk to him quietly") He is the THIRD largest cat in the world (after the lion and the tiger). (often hitting 300 lbs) I'm with you in wanting any animal on this earth to survive - but let's leave the jaguar where he is today ( I hope) - in jungle country far away from human beings.

Hmm...I may have to start taking a 7 Mag when I go varmint hunting instead of my .223...

AZ223:

Actually the jag is a soft skinned animal so maybe the 7mm Mauser would do as well? ( OK - personal confession - the 7mm Mauser is a real favorite of mine) Actually if there are jaguars in the Southwest US he will be in the mountains - and you will never see him -until he is on you. (I personally think that the stories are exaggerated. Even in the old days the jaguar never was a resident in what is our US (except to swim the river in summer and roam around -The early Texas settlers took care of that) He lived in Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula (because it's tropical country) but I just don't see a tropical cat living in Arizona or New Mexico (no matter how hot it gets in summer) because the winters in the mountains are brutal!

Wolfgar:

I was truly saddened to read your leopard story. Perhaps the young man knew little of animals and was standing a lonely sentry post and his nerves got the better of him. It reminded me of a short story I read years ago ( I don't remember the author)about the man who killed the last dodo on earth.

Gerry,
You are close. I hear that he was hiking in Ein Gedi Nature Reserve with his buddys when he came face to face with the cat and lit it up with an M-16.

I believe there is a fund already started to repay any livestock owner that can prove a Jaguar has killed any of his livestock.
One was taken in Mill County TX, in 1908. He was caught by a couple of guys out coon hunting. My dad has a very old black and white picture of it.
Anyone stupid enough to actually kill a Jaguar in the US these days had better be ready to spend around 10 or so years in a federal prison and pony up around $500,000 at least.

The Texas/New Mexico/Arizona border area can definetly support these cats, so we wish them the best. I think that this is very promising information, but I won't get too excited about it until some more research is done, and evidence of a breeding population is determined.

Interesting read related to this topic:

USFWS - Jaguar Endangered Species in Arizona

Ryan,

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Campbell:
I believe there is a fund already started to repay any livestock owner that can prove a Jaguar has killed any of his livestock.
One was taken in Mill County TX, in 1908. He was caught by a couple of guys out coon hunting. My dad has a very old black and white picture of it.
Anyone stupid enough to actually kill a Jaguar in the US these days had better be ready to spend around 10 or so years in a federal prison and pony up around $500,000 at least.

In this disgusting police state that we used to call the USA, I can easily believe there would be stiff penalties for killing a jaguar. However, I will continue to live by the rule that survival comes first. If any wild animal threatens me, bipedal or other modality, I will defend my family and me.

I remember reading an article about ten or more years ago about a rancher who killed a grizzly after it invaded his property and killed his horse. The feds tried him and I believe he was acquitted, but God's knows how much it cost him as a result of federal persecution.

I once had a game warden remind me that here in CA we have a right to defend ourselves should a lion threanten us. Lions are totally protected in CA, thank you Morgan Fairchild! I told him I was well aware of our RIGHT of self-defense! I will never, ever surrender a tactical advantage to any animal, bipedal and other modality!


Good evening,

Tom

I completely agree!
But why restrict it to animals?

Anyone who drives a car, anyone who smokes, anyone who catches the flu and anyone who eats, breathes or shits (to name only a few very dangerous activities) should also be defended against in the same manner.

Hey Tom,
I agree with you 100% on that one. I would hope that those charges would be for some asshole shooting a Jaguar from the road, or while out coyote hunting and one comes into the call.
I'm with you on that one, and I think that your lions need to be hunted in a big way. Big difference between them and the Jaguars though.