quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I have been present when about 7 or 8 deer have been killed and upon field dressing and butchering, discovered shotgun slugs encapsulated around the shoulder. Also, one broadhead.

In the former and now fortunately gone Republic of Eastern Germany regular hunters were only allowed slugs, no rifles. Rifles were only for the "privileged and reliable" supporters of the regime.

I have read several times that big boar were shot there which had several Brennecke type 12 gauge slugs in their shield behind their shoulders which did not penetrate at all into a vital area.

As an interesting detail, the most common weapon back then for big game was a Merkel 12 gauge side&side with a Zeiss Jena scope in a Suhl SEM scope mount.

Personally I have seen a moose calf soak up five rounds, all 30-06 or bigger, three were decent hits,

I have also seen a fox freeze when hit with a 22 Lr,

last I have seen at the "game dealer" we really dont have them over here but they are more like pro butchers,

he has a glas jar full of things taken out of game, amongst the more exotic things there are broadheads (no bowhunting allowed), Iron slugs, loads of 22 lr bullets (poachers), shards of glas and of cours regular bullets too.

The worst I have seen is a roe buck I shot last year, he had a whole shot load stuck in the pelt and on the bone of his scull, size 6 by the look of them.

I shot it with my 308 so I an sure I am not to blame.

/Chris

I'm sure there are people who are using inadequate rifles for the game they are hunting, but I'm also sure that a lot of game animals have been hit in the WRONG PLACE with a rifle that would have killed them if the shot had been placed where it should have been.

I've seen some odd performances, but most times it was either bullet placement or the actual bullet that was the culprit.

The two that stick out in my mind the most:

1st was a kid shooting a 6mm Remington, a 100grn Partition, and a large mulie buck broad side at 100 yards. The impact was behind the shoulder right through the lungs, maybe a tad high. The buck fell, flopped, got up and went off into a very steep canyon. 15 minutes later I finally got around the rim enough to get two more bullets in him with my 7RM and 140 NABs. Although I personally feel the 243/6mms are alittle small, I just think that was one tough buck.

Second was a 7pt whitetail I shot quartering away with a 30-06 150grn Nosler Partition Gold. At the first shot the buck ran and I followed up as he slowed into a clear lane at 80 yards. The second shot was into the shoulder. He fell after the second shot, but when I peeled the hide at camp it revealed a huge surface wound on the shoulder bone from the second shot. After removing the shoulder, none of the bullet had made it through the shoulder and into the vitals. The first shot made the kill and the second shot was complete bullet failure. Failure and Partition usually don't go in the same sentence, but that's how it went on that particular hunt.

Have a Good One,

Reloader

quote:

but when I peeled the hide at camp it revealed a huge surface wound on the shoulder bone from the second shot. After removing the shoulder, none of the bullet had made it through the shoulder and into the vitals.

Now is that bullet "failure" or a bullet poorly placed on the "shoulder bone" that merely glanced off of a hard object from striking it at a severe angle as most bullets will do?

I had a fallow pricket (small buck) live for over an hour after a double lung hit at 125yards with a 243 and a sierra 85gr BTHP (MV 3,300fps) I shot it at 1610 and went to recover it at 1725 having waited for another buck in the meantime. I was confident it was dead having seen a great reaction to the shot (advantage of 243 )

When I went to where it had entered the wood I saw it lying by a tree but it got up and ran into the darkness I had my dog but elected not to play dangerous games in the dark.

I went back the next morning and found it 150yards further on. As there was no other shot made I had an exact explanation fromt the autopsy. The bullet had entered between 2 ribs and not expanded much on the first lung. The second lung had a larger hole and the bullet had hit a rib on the way out. Dead center on the lungs but no portion of the heart hit. It seemed that the way it had lain had stopped it's chest cavity from filling with air and so it was able to maintain breathing while bleeding remarkably little. When it got up it lost it's seal and died of asphyxiation. Just a fluke IMHO.

The other incident was a head shot on a fallow pricket looking at me. The shot was dead centre but only an inch or so above the nose. The 85gr speer BTSP (slower than above) didn't make it to the CNS. I shot the pricket on follow up through the chest.

Placing a shot with a 243 has to be just that. A shot somewhere forward of the diaphragm is not good enough on a larger deer - it has to be more precise.

Three seasons ago, three of us hunted moose in a large L shape marsh area. The hunter at the far end spotted a bull and fired three rounds from his 25-06. The fully sized bull went down bleeding. The second hunter in the middle was closer and fired one round with his 30-06. He was told over the radio not to shoot anymore to avoid meat damage. So he stood 10 yards away watching. Before you know, the bull jumped up and disappeared behind the bush.

I listened on the radio and had no opportunity to tell the second hunter to shoot the bull in the head to put it out of misery.

We tracked the bull for more than four hours and gave up when it got too dark. The next morning we couldn’t pick up the trail after the rain. We lost the bull.

Those might have been poorly placed shots. But we now have a rule at the moose camp that the minimum calibre is a .270.

Just my opinion, but I don't think I will ever hunt Moose with anything less than a .30 caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
There is no such thing as an inadequate caliber, only inadequate shot placement.

As he says..bullet placement is most important. I've seen a bull elk drop with one shot from my cousins 22/250 at 500 yards, a head shot, and a cow my wife shot with one shot from her 25/06 a 120gr NP at 300 yards, a spine shot. Both lucky? Yes i think so. My cousin has gone on to the the great elk huntin land and my wife now shoots a 38/55.
Myself, i havn't used anything smaller than a .308 200gr bullet in years.
I agree with Keith in heavy weight bullets..250's,280's,286's and 310's

Similar to a couple stories already told. Shot a nice whitetail buck one fall. Everything appearded normal until we started to skin it. Once we had the hide skinned off to the front shoulders we noticed a big lump on one shoulder.It was like a sac had grown on the shoulder. the sac was filled with puss and a 22cal jacketed bullet. It had not mushroomed or made it through the shoulder into the lungs. suspected it was shot from a low vel 22 cal rifle like a hornet or even a 222.

I shot a grey fox with my Ruger 10/22 at around 20 yards, frontal chest shot. Never found him.

I'd say the .22 lr is inadequate for anything more then rabbits.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
There is no such thing as an inadequate caliber, only inadequate shot placement.

Yeah, buddy, but there are definitely inadequate bullets.

I came home one day and found the neighbors pitbull chewing up my then 4 yr old sons rabbit cage trying to get the rabbits inside. I stepped out of the truck and before I could hollar "get outa here" he started at the truck barking and growling. I was already out of the truck with the door open and just reached inside for my Buckmark 22 pistol. Dog was still coming pretty fast and just as he raised his head to bark my first shot hit him in the left side of center neck. This sent him spinning and yelping. Second shot hit him square in the shoulder. Third missed I think. Fourth hit him in the gut. He started leaving and the next two missed. He was heading home pretty fast. I went down the driveway and by the neighbors house and the pitbull was standing on the porch at the front door. I stopped and looked in dismay. He was bleeding heavily from the shoulder and the gut but just barely from the neck. I thought that was the end of him. He lived at least 3 months later. The other neighbor dogs would still chase my truck but the pitbull would run at the sound of it. I never saw the pitbull at my house again. I just wondered what if my son had went out to feed his rabbits with the pitbull out there. My neighbors finally moved. I was shooting hollow points. I should have grabbed the 41 laying beside the 22. Probably would have had a little different outcome. Louis