I just sold my .243 Win barrel, that I was going to use on my upcoming cougar hunt, to purchase a 7mm-08 barrel to use for both sitka blacktail and cougar. Would the 7mm-08 be an overkill for the cougar and cause too much hide damage?

The 7mm-08 is a fine cartridge. Hide damage is more of a bullet construction factor than anything else, followed by velocity. A heavy , well constructed bullet will minimize the damage.

Typically cougars are shot at 25 yards and out of a tree with dogs barking at them. I used a M92 in 25-20 on my last hunt as I was not into tearing up the hide. Many hunters use the .30-30,

Personally, I think the 7-08 is way too much for an animal that is at bay from dogs and shot at close range. A .22 Hornet might be a good choice.

When I was about 19 ( I'm 75) I hunted mountain lion right outside what is Zion National Park today. My guide was a real old timer. The dogs cornered a lion on a ledge about 15 feet or so above us. I was panting and heaving when we got below and I saw the lion. The dogs were leaping and barking. Our "prey" was crouched and snarling on the ledge. I had my trusty weapon - a Colt 1911, A1, 45 ACP. The guide said to me: " It's a female". It was then that I saw the tits ( and she had obviously been nursing) I backed away and we went away. My guide and I liked each other in that moment.

Frankly, I don't think that anybody except ranchers, farmers or sheepherders have a right to hunt mountain lion ( or whether called puma or cougar). We need to protect them - and I don't care if I'm called names about this. There are some animals that should not be hunted for "sport". Mountain lion is one - wolves are another.

If you do use your 7-08 on mountain lion I recommend you use the heaviest Trophy Bonded Bearclaw.
Here is why, my wife and I have used the Federal Facrory 165 Trophy Bonded Bearclaw in our 308's on several animals with excellent results.
Because the bullet is bonded it does not fragment as bad as other bullets, thus it does not "blow up" and shred the hide of animals you might want to full body mount.
For example:
Bobcat at @ 25 yards, small hole in and out.
Bobcat at @ 60 yards shot mfron above facing my wife, bullet exited an inch fron the tail, small hole in and out.
Several coyotes, no damage to hide.
Several pigs taken with minimal meat loss, even on close range shoulder shots.

The TB gives you a good muchroom with out hide/meat destroying fragmentation.

It is a good bullet for small game as well as elk sized game.

Hey Gerry-I read your response and I just for the life of me can't figure out what your opinion has to do with his question?

I do understand your backing off and not taking the El Gata but like I said what does it have to do with his question?

Mark D

And to the question, your 7/08 will work just fine. I would most likely put in a 120 TX and try to miss the shoulder/spine on the shot.

Should be one dead cat and no big deal on the pelt damage.

Mark D

7/08 is fine for cougar and or deer. If pelt damage is a concern, slow the bullet down and you will be fine.

As for the gentlemen in New York, I guess you are the reason why our hunting rights are being diminished. One guy doesn't think we should hunt this, another guy says we shouldn't hunt that, another guy says we shouldn't have guns, another guy says no one should eat fast food, next think we know, we can't do anything except watch Politically correct TV programs while eating soilent green.

John

I see that Federal loads a 140 grain Nosler Partition. Would this be a good non fragmenting bullet to consider? Federal also loads a 150 grain Speer soft point.

I could also opt for the .308 barrel instead, but I hear a lot of good things about the 7mm-08 and I do not own a .28 caliber.

The 140grNP will expand pretty quick @ the ranges you are likely to shoot your lion. This could cause some significant hide damage. If you don't handload, I would look for heavier bullets moving slower to reduce hide damage. You may be giving up a quicker kill though.
gerry, no name calling but the non hunting of wolves & mountain lions is simplistic eco crap. Tell that to the bicyclist killed here last year or the hundreds of elk, cattle, sheep killed in the west since the reintro. of the wolf. Their numbers & range have to be controlled. Either sportsman/hunters do it or the feds. do it.

gerry375 is just an anti-hunter dressed in old hunting clothing. Sounds like John Kerry when he was trying to get elected as President. He claimed to be a big deer hunter posing with his double barreled shotgun... What a joke, both of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Dthfrmbv:
I just sold my .243 Win barrel, that I was going to use on my upcoming cougar hunt, to purchase a 7mm-08 barrel to use for both sitka blacktail and cougar. Would the 7mm-08 be an overkill for the cougar and cause too much hide damage?

Go with the 7mm08, just chose a good bullet that won't blow up in the cougar. Like a Barnes TSX.

I don't have experience with cougars but have extensive experience with the 7mm08 on other critters. What ever you do, do not use the 140 grain ballistic tip. It will be downright ugly. I have shot deer at close range and have had fist size entrance and exit wounds. I don't know if you can still get them but barnes did make a 7mm solid. I believe they were like a hundred grain bullet. I forget exactly.I have a box somewhere I bought for coyote shooting. Never got around to working up loads but would think they would be ideal on something you want the hide from.

I, too, feel that the 7-08 is a bit much for a bayed cougar. But like Mark and NE 450 #2 have noted, the TSX and TBBCs will help minimize damage if you stay away from the shoulder and spine. Keep in mind that even a non-expanding bullet can indirectly cause a gaping exit thanks to secondary bone fragments.

Some of the veteran guides of yesteryear used to favor the .22 Magnum and the 40 grain JHP, and their logic is well-founded. Placed into the chest, it will provide the desired results but will not have the momentum to knock the cat out of the tree and into a pack of dogs. One swipe from that huge paw can end a good dog's career in a heartbeat.

But with the .22 Magnum JHP, the cat will bleed out in the tree and then fall out -- stone-cold and of no threat to the dogs below.

As to the post by Gerry375: I don't care for hunting cougar, hogs or anything else over dogs. But that is my personal choice, and I don't condemn others because their choices don't fit my personal views. Your post had no value, made no sense and certainly did not address the question.

Gerry375 I have a hard time beliveing you that in 1950 when lions still had a bounty on them. That is really mattered if it was female or not.

Can we spell troll.

Yes the 7-08 well work presonaly I would use my 357 carbine..

We're not all like Gerry375 in NY.He probably doesn't know that NY State vigorously denied existance of mountain lions in the state until last year when someone took a photo of one on their porch.....But last night on the news they talked about more coyotes in Westchester county .They couldn't do anything about it because they were endangered and thus protected ! ???? A media mistake or does Westchester have different rules ??

Gerry,

I couldnt disagree more. Predators are the #1 game animals on my list. What about the herbivores that they see as lunch and kill by the truckload? Shouldnt they have some protection too? Natural predators are an important part of the ecosystem, but give them free reign is foolhearty. They should be taken care of, but not left unchecked.

7-08 on Cougar, sure, I would. One of the outstanding virtues of any 308 based chambering is the potential for loading them down. Here is one example of a nice 7-08 Cougar load.

168 gr cast sp and 11 grs of red dot.

The 7mm-08 will work just fine. I might work up a really mellow handload to minimize pelt damage though. Maybe something around 2000 fps.

7MM-08 will do a great job. For the sake of the mount, I'd just stay away from bullets that expand fairly quickly. I would put Nosler partitions in that camp, although I think they're wonderful bullets in general.

To echo some earlier thoughts, I would use Trophy Bonded Bearclaw, Swift A-Frame, or (especially) Barnes Triple Shock. Will work great on both deer and lion, and I wouldn't try to slow the bullet down either. A bit more velocity might help the hydrostatic shock enough to better stun the cat as well. Full house load, tough bullets, and you're good to go.

Unfortunately, I get a lot like "gerry375" in my classes. I wonder how gerry would feel with wolves and mountain lions in Central Park?

Mark:

Of course, you're right and I should not have jumped into the discussion. My only excuse is that the original question triggered a memory of a lion hunt. (Let me sneak in a defense - mountain lion are thin skinned - I was hunting behind dogs and knew my shot would be very close hence the 45 ACP was OK with the guide - wouldn't a light fast moving bullet do a lot of skin damage? The original poster was asking about hide damage) Again, however, to repeat - you were right to call me on my post.

quote:

Originally posted by gerry375:
When I was about 19 ( I'm 75) I hunted mountain lion right outside what is Zion National Park today. My guide was a real old timer. The dogs cornered a lion on a ledge about 15 feet or so above us. I was panting and heaving when we got below and I saw the lion. The dogs were leaping and barking. Our "prey" was crouched and snarling on the ledge. I had my trusty weapon - a Colt 1911, A1, 45 ACP. The guide said to me: " It's a female". It was then that I saw the tits ( and she had obviously been nursing) I backed away and we went away. My guide and I liked each other in that moment.

Frankly, I don't think that anybody except ranchers, farmers or sheepherders have a right to hunt mountain lion ( or whether called puma or cougar). We need to protect them - and I don't care if I'm called names about this. There are some animals that should not be hunted for "sport". Mountain lion is one - wolves are another.

This is a hunting forum isn't it? Am I in the right place. Readig this makes me wonder?

quote:

Originally posted by HUNTS:
The 7mm-08 will work just fine. I might work up a really mellow handload to minimize pelt damage though. Maybe something around 2000 fps.

If you load it down that slow and use the Barnes TSX then it more than likely not expand and just pencil in and out.

"pencil in and out"???? And then you've got a wounded lion in amongst the dogs. Before a guide lets that happen, he's gonna make that lion look like a sieve.
Instead of angsting too much, just shoot the thing, be careful of your shot placement, and any taxidermist that's worth a shit can patch up any damage.
I've never shot a lion. The difference between me and the rest of these experts is I admit it. IMO, if you shoot it with any standard bullet ( forget the magic bullets or HP's or poly-tipped stuff) at a nominal velocity, you'll get a finger sized hole in one side and a quarter sized hole out the other.

You might even want to look at a 175gr barnes or something along that line. The 175 will be a lot slower and have a heavier jacket. Another heavy jacket bullet would be the 160gr failsafe. As for Mountain lions and wolves not having a high population have you seen the population reports from western states in the last couple of years? Just like anything else they need to be hunted to keep the population in check. Unless you would rather posion them.

Mete:

You don't indicate where you're from. I am glad you are so well informed on my state of NY about mountain lion being photographed on someone's porch. Funny I never saw that story and I'm a native New Yorker. In fact, I want to rank your post with reports of sightings of "Bigfoot") As for coyotes in Westchester County - I shot at a coyote while hunting ruffed grouse in northern Westchester county (up against the Putnam County line) over 20 years ago. (I was using field loads, No.6s and the coyote along with two others had pulled down a late fawn and the range was nearly 45 yards or so -or otherwise I would have had him. Don't try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

I'd recommend the exact opposite of several of the posts here.

I'd go with a 100gr Hornady HP at max velocity. You could probably back off from a treed cat a little bit and the high velocity HP will likely not exit. In fact, shooting up a tree is as hard for me as anything. I'd walk off a little ways to get an angle I liked.

I might even try a 'yote with that load first. Nate