I keep hearing about how great the SMK's are (contrary to what the manufacturer says about them) for hunting.

I have personally had bad luck with SMK's, so I would have to put them at the top of the "WORST bullet for big game hunting" list. I would highly recommend anything but SMK's for big game hunting.

Oh, that one is easy: the Nosler partition.

j/k

This will open a can of worms every poor shot ever attempted will be blamed on a "bad" bullet or "too light of caliber", when in fact usually any bullet placed in the appropriate place kills every time.
Come on poor shooters lets hear those stories!

Even though you are downing the Sierra Match Kings (I don't use them for hunting either), I have had extremely favorable results with Sierra's Game King and Pro Hunter. Specifically in my 30/06 and .257 Roberts. When using Sierra 180 grain Bullets in my '06 I've had excellent performance on Deer, Elk, Antelope, Bighorn Sheep, Mountain Goat, Coyotes, Marmots, Ravens etc...
A couple years ago I switched to 180 Accubonds and I'm switching back as I was not impressed although testing was limited (2 Bull Elk) and I killed the animals but I was not impressed with retained weight and penetration, others have had wonderful results with that bullet.

quote:

What is the WORST bullet for big game hunting?

38 special wad cutter or any .17 cal.

If you havn't seen lately.....lead is bad

Snell, I love Sierra Game Kings and Pro Hunters as well and shoot hundreds each year.

I like the Sierra .25 cal 117 BT. And I love Nosler Partitions in all calibers. I don't like FMJs, the worst hunting bullets IMO.

Worst bullet = Any bullet shot at game without first being shot at paper.

Well I disagree with whats been written so far.

I made very careful and well placed shot more than once behind the shoulder thru the ribs on blacktail deer with my 7x57 and 139g Hornaday SP. More than once the bullet came a part.

About 6 years ago I made a very careful and well placed shot on a good sized bull moose behind the shoulder using my 300 weatherby and Sierra 180g Pro Hunters. The bull swapped ends and I hit him again on the opposite side we started on. He piled up in a heap stone dead, but upon performing the necropsy we found both bullets had come a part on the ribs on entry and only bullet and rib bone fragments had perforated the heart and lungs.

Given these more than a couple of examples, (two or three blacktails and the moose,) I have concluded it's better to use premium bullets like Barnes/ Nosler/ Swift, and I have been very pleased with the results.

My personal vote is for the nosler BT. I can't say that it has ever wounded an animal without recovery. It has been my experience that they often give extremely violent expansion and behave like an over sized varmint round. Their has been a lot of meat lost due to this. They are however accurate as hell for me in this combo 130gr 270wsm.

The folks that make the cup and core bullets should really put a velocity rating on them. I had great luck with Sierra Pro-Hunter out of a 7mm-08 but then tried them in the STW and they flat fell apart with almost no penetration. But still, Remington Core-loct's have to be the single worst bullet out there. I use Kodiak, Northfork(thank god they are back in business) and Trophy Bonded most of them time with a few exceptions.

I have shot several whitetails with SMK's but they were all at extreme ranges where the bullet had slowed way down and they worked fine.

Joe

If you put the bullet where it belongs it is simple it dies. Have killed truck loads of nasty feral hogs with a 55fmj out of my Stoner for example. Dead is dead so to examine a wound channel is pretty worthless to me as no 2 shots are exactly the same. There are so many variables that it makes ones head hurt. I have been lucky and never lost an game animal but then again never take marginal shots except on feral hogs and other vermin where the objective is just to kill them.

lots of good replies so far - my answer would be that the worst bullet for BG hunting is any that isn't designed for BG hunting.

tasunkawitko wrote:

quote:

lots of good replies so far - my answer would be that the worst bullet for BG hunting is any that isn't designed for BG hunting.

I agree wholeheartedly. But unfortunately, some folks seem to think they know more about bullets than bullet manufacturers themselves.

I HATE Nosler Ballistic Tips.... But I have killed everything I have ever shot at with them and my 7mm RM loves them. Don't why know I think they are such a crappy design, just do. Dead is dead....

worst bullet?

Loaded to 2750 in my Remington Semiauto Sierra's
165gr GameKing Hollowpoint (no exposed lead to upset my auto-shucker) had "spotty" performance.

Several penciled through like an early Barnes-X while the next one from the same box of bullets fired from the same rifle from the same load 1/2second later, in nearly the same spot blew up like a varmint bullet...
there was just no figuiring what each "next one" would do on impact, so I stopped using them about the time the Nosler Ballistic Tips replaced the original Nosler "Solid Base".

As down as some people are on the Nosler Ballistic Tips
I've never actually recovered one... either 120's out of my
6.5x55 or 165's out of my 30-06.

All managed to exit.

That being said I won't be buying anymore of them for game
Nor will I be using any of my remaining supply on game, Nosler Accubonds aren't enough more expensive than BT's to justify any "Savings" on the cheaper BT's

And considering that the AB's perform like the partitions
for a fraction of the price... but with the external ballistics
of the Ballistic Tips....

The Ballistic tips are just a bit too destructive.



AD

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
tasunkawitko wrote:

quote:

lots of good replies so far - my answer would be that the worst bullet for BG hunting is any that isn't designed for BG hunting.

I agree wholeheartedly. But unfortunately, some folks seem to think they know more about bullets than bullet manufacturers themselves.

For years many in the Long Range Hunting Comunity were useing the Berger VLDs even when Berger designed them as a target bullet only and because of those hunters sucess Berger took a few Gunwriters on a hunting trip, made a Video and now claim them to be hunting bullets ass well as target bullets. Perhaps those that used them for years before Berger tried them on game knew a bit more than did the manufacturor.

I've had two Sierra Game Kings (130 gr .277 cal) blow up and fail to exit on muleys. One at ~30 yards and the other at ~210 yards. Even though both deer were killed, I'd really rather have an exit than a jacket rupture. Had the angle been slightly different or had I hit a bone, then the results could've been very bad.

quote:

Originally posted by GrosVentreGeorge:
My personal vote is for the nosler BT. I can't say that it has ever wounded an animal without recovery. It has been my experience that they often give extremely violent expansion and behave like an over sized varmint round. Their has been a lot of meat lost due to this. They are however accurate as hell for me in this combo 130gr 270wsm.

I agree, the Nosler Ballistic Tip is not for anything bigger than a rabbit. My sons and I culled a number of does with them and they were not a good choice due to damage to meat and lack of penetration. The Partition is a better choice.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
tasunkawitko wrote:

quote:

lots of good replies so far - my answer would be that the worst bullet for BG hunting is any that isn't designed for BG hunting.

I agree wholeheartedly. But unfortunately, some folks seem to think they know more about bullets than bullet manufacturers themselves.

For years many in the Long Range Hunting Comunity were useing the Berger VLDs even when Berger designed them as a target bullet only and because of those hunters sucess Berger took a few Gunwriters on a hunting trip, made a Video and now claim them to be hunting bullets ass well as target bullets. Perhaps those that used them for years before Berger tried them on game knew a bit more than did the manufacturor.

John---more to that story than you know!! They tried for years to get the military business away but never could... Now they are hunting bullets---some folks even think that they are and have been made different by the sprinkling of magic dust!!! LOL!!!!

It takes all kinds and unfortunately most do not have accurate information or the complete story lest they would realize that they have been had on a few things---not all mind you but a few.. I know you have read the JAG White Paper and would you agree that it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the SMK is kept on a very short marketing leash?

Around here there are too many experts that know everything because they conduct uncontrolled experiments on supposed bullet expansion that really conclude nothing except that there is a hole. Have talked to my friends who do this kind of thing for a living and they call it “feel good testingâ€.

Boss Hoss wrote:

quote:

it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the SMK is kept on a very short marketing leash?

And it obviously doesn't take one to promote untruths...

On a short marketing leash? Give me a break. Sierra has significant market coverage for the MKs, and ads appear monthly in most major outdoor publications.

How is that on a short leash when Sierra spends more promoting the MKs than their big game and varmint bullets combined???

And if they were kept on a short leash, why would Sierra sponsorship be so evident at the more significant shooting competitions???

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
tasunkawitko wrote:

quote:

lots of good replies so far - my answer would be that the worst bullet for BG hunting is any that isn't designed for BG hunting.

I agree wholeheartedly. But unfortunately, some folks seem to think they know more about bullets than bullet manufacturers themselves.

For years many in the Long Range Hunting Comunity were useing the Berger VLDs even when Berger designed them as a target bullet only and because of those hunters sucess Berger took a few Gunwriters on a hunting trip, made a Video and now claim them to be hunting bullets ass well as target bullets. Perhaps those that used them for years before Berger tried them on game knew a bit more than did the manufacturor.

John---more to that story than you know!! They tried for years to get the military business away but never could... Now they are hunting bullets---some folks even think that they are and have been made different by the sprinkling of magic dust!!! LOL!!!!

It takes all kinds and unfortunately most do not have accurate information or the complete story lest they would realize that they have been had on a few things---not all mind you but a few.. I know you have read the JAG White Paper and would you agree that it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the SMK is kept on a very short marketing leash?

Around here there are too many experts that know everything because they conduct uncontrolled experiments on supposed bullet expansion that really conclude nothing except that there is a hole. Have talked to my friends who do this kind of thing for a living and they call it “feel good testingâ€.

You are spot on, I knew that you knew more than you were saying.. Again You always post great infomation and I always enjoy your posts

I've shot around a dozen deer with Sierra Matchkings. The 180gr version 308Win. When they work terminally they work fabulous. When they don't work terminally it's a longer day. I haven't lost anything I've shot with them but I will say their terminal performance is inconsistent enough that I'll just use them to punch paper from now on. They do excel at punching paper. I can see why some folks think they are great for game because I've made some pretty spectacular kills with them. If I had only those kills to base my opinion on, I'd think they were just dandy for game too. Frankly, I think Sierra is being honest. This bullet is for Matches not hunting.

The Game Kings are very accurate bullets as well. I do think that Joe Miller has a valid point about velocity limits on bullets. The Game Kings are pretty soft bullets. I don't feel comfortable pushing the 30cal version faster than 308 velocities. The Pro Hunters are supposed to be a lot tougher. I've never tried them.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Boss Hoss wrote:

quote:

it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the SMK is kept on a very short marketing leash?

And it obviously doesn't take one to promote untruths...

On a short marketing leash? Give me a break. Sierra has significant market coverage for the MKs, and ads appear monthly in most major outdoor publications.

How is that on a short leash when Sierra spends more promoting the MKs than their big game and varmint bullets combined???

And if they were kept on a short leash, why would Sierra sponsorship be so evident at the more significant shooting competitions???

Again Bobby you really should think before you type! Now let’s try some deductive reasoning shall we???? What are we talking about? Boolets? ----right Bobby!! Now what kind of Boolets? Shooting Boolets? Right Bobby! Now what kind of Boolets is this thread about? ------------well that question is too hard so to summarize we are talking specifically about the M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G of the S-M-K as a H-U-N-T-I-N-G bullet not a C-O-M-P-E-T-I-T-I-O-N bullet!!


You assignment is to work on reading comprehension… There will be a test tomorrow!

Boss Hoss wrote: "You assignment is to work on reading comprehension"

Before you offer up any more invaluable advice, perhaps you should try and comprehend what YOU actually wrote in your post, such as: "... it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the SMK is kept on a very short marketing leash?"


Only then can you begin to actually understand the replies.

Oh God! This is starting to feel like the .45/70 on buffalo thread ...

To the Ballistic Tip doubters:

For the Sierra GameKing doubters:

And a few for the Sierra Pro Hunter doubters:


The hog and buck above were complete pass throughs. MV was right at 3000 fps; the buck was taken at 165 yards while the hog above was taken at app. 240 yards.




And the Pro Hunter does pretty well at longer ranges/lower velocities as well:


The key is to use the bullets according to the manufacturers' recommendation. Driving a Ballistic Tip to 3500 fps and taking a short range shot into heavy bone is asking for trouble.

Talk to Sierra, and they, too, will give you the best possible performance window for their GameKings (it's written about in their manual as well). And while talking bullets with them, ask what they think about their MKs on big game...

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
If you put the bullet where it belongs it is simple it dies. Have killed truck loads of nasty feral hogs with a 55fmj out of my Stoner for example. Dead is dead so to examine a wound channel is pretty worthless to me as no 2 shots are exactly the same. There are so many variables that it makes ones head hurt. I have been lucky and never lost an game animal but then again never take marginal shots except on feral hogs and other vermin where the objective is just to kill them.

I have never met a bullet I didn't like some just better then others

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Boss Hoss wrote: "You assignment is to work on reading comprehension"

Before you offer up any more invaluable advice, perhaps you should try and comprehend what YOU actually wrote in your post, such as: "... it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why the SMK is kept on a very short marketing leash?"


Only then can you begin to actually understand the replies.

Oh my my my----once again Bobby a term that is used frequently to describe a situation such as this is “contextâ€! You must once again focus and concentrate on the entire thread while reading the posts in order and then and only then will you be able to keep the subject matter in the proper “contextâ€.

Worst possible bullet? If the bullet shoots well then I can find something it is good for. I have a high regard for Ballistic Tips and Speer Hotcors but my do anything bullet is the Nosler Partition. I have had no bullet failures that didn't include me using the bullet outside of it's performance evelope but then again I rarely slam bullets into the onside shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

What is the WORST bullet for big game hunting?

38 special wad cutter or any .17 cal.

You forgot 25ACP.

It is legal to hunt elk with one of these in Oregon.

The worst bullet I ever used was a 180 gr Winchester Silver Tip, old ones from 1970,In a 300 Weatherby, shot ok on paper, but they didn't do that well on the moose I shot later that year. Sort of broke up on a rib, my second shot missed ribs and punched a hole in the lungs. Didn't expand much. Oh well live and learn, I never shot those after that. Wanted to save a little money on load development, After all these were 3 dollars for a box of 100 back then and the Noslers were 5 dollars for 50. Penny wise and a dollar foolish, but I was young then. Like I said live and learn. Now that same bullet in my Uncles 308 Winchester worked like a champ. Wrong bullet for the cartridge and game hunted. I don't think it would have been much of a problem on White Tails.

George: your post does a good job of highlighting why there is no good answer to the question posed by this thread. "Big game hunting" is simply too broad a category.

the "best" bullet for elephants might be among the "worst" bullets for small whitetails.

Just as there can be no single "best" bullet for a category as broad as "big game", there also can be no single "worst" bullet for all big game hunting.

(Except for the SMK's and TSX's, which, of course are the absolute best bullets for ANY hunting. )

Once had a very bad experience with a Speer Grand Slam in .270 130 grain configuration; total core seperation on a basic 180 pound mule deer buck at 50 yards. I'm not particuarly fond of Speer hotcore bullets on anything weighing over 150 pounds.

Have had good experiences with Nosler Partition on 20+ critters and really like the Winchester Failsafe design on 20+ critters. I've shot a couple critters (five?) with Barnes X bullets and have a lot of faith in them.

Gidday Guys,

At the velocities I shoot big game bullets any Barnes mono metal or other FMJ.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Worst bullet for hunting? Hawk Deadsoft......while I have never lost an animal using these bullets, they come apart at even subdued velocities.

When I load up a gun and walk out to kill something the only bullet that I will use is what I have reason to believe is the best one available for the job at hand.

Anything less than that is all in the same category as the worst possible bullet.

I have been doing this for enough years that I have no questions in my mind that I can kill what I need to with about any bullet if I load it properly and put it where it can do it's best work. If that means putting a .22 short behind a pig's ear or finding a cripple in an aspen cutting or having to deal with anything between 30 and 350 yards you just do what needs to be done.