I found out "tecomate" is the name of the company that supplies the seed for the food plots and the feed for the feeders
They was at the "famed" "los cazadores" ranch we have been seeing so much of around here.Only partially high fenced.
Funny part was they showed a "dwarf" whitetail buck,had very short legs and what looked like a normal sized body.6-8 point.They didnt shoot it,but the owner sure looked unhappy.I bet he got wacked soon as the camera stopped rolling.Bad genetic manipulation?
The hunter was the president of versus tv,it was his first whitetail hunt.whenever they would set up to do some rattling,he would put in his foam earplugs.Nothing like a set of earplugs to help detect the elusive trophy buck.
The show did nothing to change my opinion,in fact,it reinforced it.
Sorry DRG,I had to speak out.

sorry...double post

so stop watching it.

You made you opinion abundantly clear on the many threads in which you re-hashed your "stand" and even drew the ire of the administrator.

Move on, please...

jb,

Well.......you almost got your facts straight. "Los Cazadores" is a deer contest in South Texas. The ranch they hunt on "Bucks of Tecomate" is the El Cazador Ranch. As far as I know, it is NOT high fenced. It may have a high fence on a side or two if the neighbor's place is high fenced, but their deer are completely free ranging. They do, however, have lots of big food plots that are high fenced with 2-part wire. This is so they can be fenced off while the plants are growing and then once the plants mature, they lift the bottom 4 ft. of wire around the plot so the deer can get in.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Move on, please...

your right. time to go hunting.but somehow I dont think its settled just yet.

And this one NEVER WILL BE...LET IT GO!!!!

Perry

I watched it for the first time as well. Thought the dwarf buck was kind of interesting. If it was me doing the hunting, he would have went down. Think what a neat trophy that would be, a true one of a kind buck. Unique!

I did kind of get a kick out the owner of the place when he was talking about how they have created the place so it has a "Natural Deer Herd". His quotes by the way, not mine. Now I'm not the smartest guy in the world, and I don't have any particular axe to grind in this pissing contest, but when you show feeders scattering corn, feeders full of some sort of artificial feed, and have planted numerous food plots that produce year round, then you no longer have a natural deer herd in my humble opinion. What you have is semi domesticated deer.

A natural deer herd is one that has adapted to seasonal food shortages. Has adapted to seasonal droughts, has adapted to natural predators taking some of the herd, has adopted the instinct to migrate to new areas when adverse conditions arise. When man gets involved and changes any one of these aspects, the herd becomes manipulated and is no longer "Natural". The fact the place is not high fenced isn't relevant to me. The herd is fenced by the availability of food and the unnatural conditions provided.

If this guy really wanted a "Natural Deer Herd", he would remove the food plots, remove the feeders and let the deer naturally regulate
their numbers and travel patterns. He can regulate hunter access and still control the size or number of bucks taken, but they probably won't be as big as those he is selling right now because of the unnatural food provided the deer.

I've always thought the special status of a true natural trophy buck should be due to the sheer odds of the buck becoming a trophy in the natural world. A trophy buck taken under the conditions I saw on that piece of property would mean much less to me than one taken under the conditions I hunt in. Trophy deer should be rare, they should he highly esteemed. They should not be man made.

My 2 cents worth on the subject. Feel free to disagree if you want.

Mac

MAC, as much as I enjoy defending Texans and the Texas Way of doing things, that is a really great post and grasp of the situation.

In too many cases here in Texas, deer are no longer "Wild" animals, they are semi-domesticated in may instances.

My contention is that it is not the animals fault nor the fault of the person pulling the trigger.

It is just the way things have evolved on many places here in Texas. JMO.

if the assclowns at tecomart were selling hunting opertunity instead of deer by the point that I already own as much as they do their feeding them would not bother me much.

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
if the assclowns at tecomart were selling hunting opertunity instead of deer by the point that I already own as much as they do their feeding them would not bother me much.

I don't really understand your problem. Tecomate is simply an American company responding to a perceived need of deer hunters.
As far as I know, they don't sell deer, by the point or otherwise. As for your "owning" deer, that's great, you take care of the ones you own and others will take care of theirs how they see fit.

quote:

I've always thought the special status of a true natural trophy buck should be due to the sheer odds of the buck becoming a trophy in the natural world. A trophy buck taken under the conditions I saw on that piece of property would mean much less to me than one taken under the conditions I hunt in. Trophy deer should be rare, they should he highly esteemed. They should not be man made.

I agree 110%. I've stayed out of this debate for the most part because it seems some folks just have an axe to grind with Texans, period. So be it. But to be completely honest with ourselves this happens in a fairly large number of states. Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennslyvania, the list goes on... even Canada has a few high fenced ranches. And the west may not have high-fenced whitetail ranches but they do have a number of elk ranches where you see the same scenario.

I feel if you want to pay to shoot one of these super genetic, protein fed bucks or bulls and it is legal where you participate in the event it is certainly your perogative. Who am I to judge otherwise?

But the guy who hunts open range and takes a 140 to 160 class buck or a kid who takes his first 8 point has more of a "trophy" than the guy who buys a hunt on a "super buck" ranch to get his name immortalized in some record book. Just mho.

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:
A natural deer herd is one that has adapted to seasonal food shortages. Has adapted to seasonal droughts, has adapted to natural predators taking some of the herd, has adopted the instinct to migrate to new areas when adverse conditions arise. When man gets involved and changes any one of these aspects, the herd becomes manipulated and is no longer "Natural".
Mac

hi mac by those standards that will pretty much rule out hunting in large parts of europe minus the feeders, around here the feed plots are there to make sure that the natural deer population dont eat the crops in the fields.

peter

quote:

But the guy who hunts open range and takes a 140 to 160 class buck or a kid who takes his first 8 point has more of a "trophy" than the guy who buys a hunt on a "super buck" ranch to get his name immortalized in some record book. Just mho.

Bingo!

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

quote:

But the guy who hunts open range and takes a 140 to 160 class buck or a kid who takes his first 8 point has more of a "trophy" than the guy who buys a hunt on a "super buck" ranch to get his name immortalized in some record book. Just mho.

.

Bingo!

I think we can all agree with that

I feel better that Im not the only one who feels that way

Its not that I have an axe to grind with Texas,I really dont.Somebody from Texas just usually has time to disagree with me.
I am beginning to understand it is a private business there,its not like everywhere else,that why I think it should have its own forum.
On a different note,these tv shows about hunting are nothing but 30 minute advertisments for the product of the day,whether its estrous doe pee or a certain ranch or firearm.
I want to try to enjoy watching them,but its getting old.

quote:

On a different note,these tv shows about hunting are nothing but 30 minute advertisments for the product of the day,whether its estrous doe pee or a certain ranch or firearm.
I want to try to enjoy watching them,but its getting old.

I used to enjoy them, but most border rediculous! To many about scores, to many about money. To many trying to hawk their goods. And all are there to make a buck. The shows are nothing more than entertainment to fill the gaps between football and yard work! I canceld all the programming after the ZUMBO incident. Enough was enough. To many self rightous to many worried about a trophy and personal opinions. And one more f##king turkey hunt and I was gonna puke!

quote:

But the guy who hunts open range and takes a 140 to 160 class buck or a kid who takes his first 8 point has more of a "trophy" than the guy who buys a hunt on a "super buck" ranch to get his name immortalized in some record book. Just mho.

+11111111

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:
And one more f##king turkey hunt and I was gonna puke!

LMAO!! I agree completely!! That's just about the only kind of hunting show that I can't stand to watch more than one or two of a year.

I agree with many of the sentiments here, but it is interesting, I just saw a re-run of that episode, and it was interesting to me that there was no sitting in a box blind, they were stalking and rattling, and hunting deer on 'their own terms' (their words) which is certainly more of a challenge than sitting around a feeder. Granted these bucks have been fed a special diet, and are crazy big compared to an actual 'natural' herd, but they aren't high fenced, and they shoot a lot of does to keep the herd ratio well balanced.

Deer do not self regulate worth a damn, they will overpopulate, overgraze/feed an area til they are in distress, and I think due to the fact that many hunters are reluctant to take does, the doe/buck ratio gets out of hand. We have a biologist tell us how many does it would be good to take off our hunting tract here in Ga each year, and it is a bigger # than anyone ever would guess. He says a buck doe ratio of 1 to 4 or so is ideal. Typical in unmanaged herds in Ga is something like 1 to 15...at this ratio, bucks are almost completely nocturnal-especially the big ones, and they do not have to compete for breeding does, so rattling and other agessive behavior hunting techniques will just not work......the bucks just don't have to compete for the girls...

As to feeding the deer whatever, I would do some of that, protein of whatever, and I would plant more food plots-- if it was practical, whether we hunted them or not---I would think it would make for healthier, and yes--hopefully bigger, deer--including the racks on the bucks.....

JB,
i cheated yeasterday.
against all hopes of being a true hunter i fell.
I actually had the opportunity, and took it, to begin hunting a sanctualry.
thats right a real gosh dang it deer sanctuary.
My frien and attorney owns 68 acres in Landrum SC. Known for thier elite horse farms and vast pastures. I walked the property last afternoon with him and while i figured i wouldnt see anything that evening i went ahead and threw up a climber on a big poplar in the bottoms.
The whole property contains 55 acres of hardwoods. Mature acorn laden white oaks out number the pines, hemlocks and cedars 10 to one with a smidgen of Hickory and poplar to round out the numbers.
My attorney has owned the property for 12 years and noone has ever hunted it, further he says in 12 years he has yet to hear a shot during deer or turkey season. he says people around there just dont hunt.
well last night in the bottoms i didnt see much, a doe walked in on me at ZERO yards.
thats right, waled up to the tree i was sitting in and smelled it. walked around it smelling it. then walked away.
STUPID!
the only exposure these deer have ever had in more than 2 generations with humans in people riding horses on the property.
Boy are they gonna be surprised.

let the education begin. tenderloin tonite.

Our season starts on saturday 1/2 hour before sunrise.finally got a hard freeze last night.
The game is afoot,watson,carry on,tally ho!!

actually its odd. that county has a ban on killing does this year. i cant even use my state issued "additional antlerless tags" in that area.
but i dont see less does as a problem. makes ratlling work better I hear.