Considering a laminate stock for a new project. Never had one but like the looks of some of the Boyds. How do they compare to the better synthetics for extensive use?

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Laminates are more stable than standard wood stocks however the most stable stock is a high quality synthetic like a mcmillan.

I don't think laminate or plastic is more stable than a good piece or properly cured Turkish walnut, but of the two mentioned I prefer laminate to plastic...

Plastic is cold, cheap looking, and don't think it won't warp, ask Saeed, or leave it in your car trunk or put it under a 100 watt bulb and walk off and leave it for awhile..Heat is the villian of the composite stock...Besides my wifes toaster and microwave are made of the same stuff, that bothers me.

Laminate, if properly sealed is very stable IMO...bottom line is what you like that counts.

I prefer Synthetic the only laminate I have used split and had to be glass bedded.. Ray take your walnut and use it for a week in the rain and watch it get fuzzy. No Synthetic is the way to go if you want a stable hard working stock.

A synthetic is better than any laminate.

Especially a McMillan.

I will use a laminate only if it has pillars and crossbolts out the ying-yang, and only if the entire surface inside and out is covered with epoxy.

The laminate is only as good as the veneers it is made of and that is usually birch. The gluing process does not penetrate and fill every grain and pore. I don't care what anybody says to the contrary.

The Acrabond with thicker walnut slices sandwiched has got to be the best "laminate."

The McMillan weighs as much as a walnut stock, and they can even make them heavier if you want.

The issue of what kind of rifle, heavy or light, has not been addressed.

Also, I would trust a one pound Brown Precision "Pounder" of fiberglass, graphite, and Kevlar, over any laminate or walnut, for a hard kicking, light rifle.

My 2 cents worth for free.

It appears as though someone that should know better doesn't.Not all synthetic stocks are plastic.Many are made of fibreglass and some contain kevlar.Many contain no plastic at all.Calling all synthetics plastic is like calling all wood stocks birch.

Stubble Jumper is spot on with that. I'm aware of 5 kinds of stock material, wood, laminated wood, synthetic, composite, and metal. Synthetic is at the bottom of my shopping list for a myriad of reasons. Laminates are generally quite stable, but often a bit heavier than the rest. PROPERLY built composites are truly amazing from a practical standpoint. Don't take anything but wood to a beauty contest though......

"Synthetic" is a broad term that includes both top-of-the-line composites and tupperware.

Most of the cheap laminated wood stocks will compress/crush in the action screw areas and split behind the tang quite easily. Even an unaltered tupperware stock won't do that. The cheap laminates do have a good and stiff forearm, however, and are superior to tupperware in that way.

It is difficult to get good and durable checkering on a laminate, for the same reason that they split behind the tang. They are only as good as the wood in the veneers: Birch.

Here is the only laminate stock I own, on a 470 Mbogo, still under construction, and slated for a McMillan:


There are 2 bedding pillars and 5 crossbolts in this one, a 1/2" thick threaded steel axial rod through the grip, and clear epoxy over every bit of the external and internal surfaces not covered by opague bedding and opague gripping surface epoxy. The grip area was also wrapped with braided stainless steel wire (as used for hanging picture frames) before it was covered with epoxy. Of course, there is a secondary recoil lug on the barrel.

I trust this laminate until I can get a McMillan to replace it.

[ 10-12-2003, 20:08: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

I agree here with stubble jumper. cheapy adl synthetics are not in the same league as mcmillan, brown, and h.s.. all of my rifles where quality synthetics. cheers

P dog,
My old Walnut has been from the No. Pole to the Sudan, sat in the deer blinds of So. Texas where it was so hot and humid and wet I had to strip down to my shorts in the deer stand.. and has served me well...

Properly cured and sealed walnut that has been properly laid out will not warp...How do you suppose we all survived before plastic showed up in about 1960 and how do think all the Holland and Holland and Winchesters on the market today that are a 100 years old survived...just food for thought.

People survived with the guns they had 100 years ago for the same reason that they did with bows and arrows hundreds of years before that and spears hundreds of years before that,because thats all they had at the time.At one time they also survived without electricity or running water.Does that mean that none of these improvements were worthwhile?

I got my first synthetic stock (a Brown Precision)in 1977. I liked that it was relatively stable. I hated the feel of it and didn't really like working on it. Nonetheless I touted the advantages for those customers who were interested in such things. I still think they are the best bet for a rugged, all-weather rifle. I also still don't like the feel of them and don't really like working with them.
As far as the laminates are concerned, I kind of like the looks of them and like them for some uses. I think the maple/walnut laminates as sold by Fajen were a lot better than the birch plywood we get today. I have seen some maple/maple laminates which I also think are much better than the birch.
I think a good walnut stock, properly sealed can be very nearly as stable as glass and stronger than a laminated stock.
I have seen glass stocks which split (MacMillan and Brown Precision) on heavy recoiling rifles. I have seen glass BR stocks move quite a bit on a hot day. I started always painting my BR stocks light colors to minimize heat absorption.
I have a 35 Whelen I built in 1987 and which has a fairly dense, straight grained piece of black walnut for a stock. I fire a group through it every fall and have yet to have to adjust the scope so I guess it's pretty stable.
In the end all will work if done right and it just comes down to what you like best. Regards, Bill.

Bill as usual makes sense to me, can't argue with any of his points.

What I like in no particular order, because I like them all about equally for their assignments:

Walnut
Brown Precision
McMillan

Steve:

For $65.00 you can get a Boyd's laminate stock.
They are very stable in any kind of weather. Will easily take anything WVa can throw at them.

If one does get dinged up, a little sand paper, a little steel wool, and some oil and it looks as good as new.

I have traded off all of my synthetic stocks for Laminate ones. However, if the synthetic one you were thinking about is cheap enough, why not get one of each. Then you can put one on the rifle that suits your mood when you are going out in the field.

Good shooting either route.

Seafire, I'm hoping that me and the rifle this stock will be attached to can make it out of WVa for at least a few hunts in the future Thats one big reason why I want to be sure It wears a stock that I can trust

Gonna have to slack off on my firearm and related purchases to make these future hunts a reality. Anything worth a sacrifice like that is worth doing right

Got to second the vote for AcraBond stocks. As pretty as regular wood and have all the advantages of laminated stocks.
- mike

I find the laminate to be warmer to the touch in cold weather and way quieter when walking through brush. The Laminates are also more than stable enough and way tougher than plain wood. For the most part it still comes down to just lain old preference.

I'm not a captive of any romantic notions when it comes to stock materials or finishes. A quality laminated/synthetic stock such as McMillan's is a heck of a lot more durable (something like nine times stronger) and more stable than walnut, and that is a simple fact of chemistry and physics. The target shooting, law enforcement, and military communities caught on to the truth of that reality long ago, and over the last twenty years or so the slow-to-change big game hunting community has as well.

I'm sour on laminated stocks, even though surely some are better than others. In my experience, unless they're finished with a really tough and weatherproof polymer material that thoroughly seals the stock inside and out, you can come to grief in wet weather. I had a laminated stock that was finished with tung oil begin to delaminate after just on day of wet snow, which is a failure that even traditional walnut isn't subject to.

Not all high-end laminated/synthetic stocks are created equal by any means either, and to lump stocks of this type, as a class, with those cheap injection-molded Six Enterprises or Remchester plastic jobs is an ignorant generalization. Even the worst laminated/synthetic is better than the best injection-moulded stock, and that's the plain truth.

But I've had Brown Precision stocks visibly and measurably move in hot weather, plus I've seen some brands so very flimsey (especailly MPI) that you could actually twist and move the forend with your hand, and this on an assembled and finished rifle!

In my experience, McMillan's laminated/synthetic stock is simply in a league of it's own in terms of stability, quality, and durability. Nothing else touches it. I've used McMillan stocks under all weather conditions, from below zero to over one hundred degrees (F), and I've never experienced any kind of change or movement. They get even better if they're pillar-bedded.

If I owned only one rifle for all hunting purposes for the rest of my life, that rifle would wear a McMillan stock.

AD

Hot Core,
I didn't say the point of impact moved (though it frequently does), the stock moved. Probably about 1/32" at the forend tip. On a day where the temperature changed significantly during the course of a shoot I found the group center to shift up a bit. Whether any of this was due to changes in the stock is hard to say but doubtful. I only mentioned it to illustrate that glass isn't totally inert either.
As to whether the 35 whelen stock is more stable than glass probably not. It may be as stable and is certainly stable enough for it's purpose. As I mentioned, when I saw the changes that could take place in a glass stock (especially a black one) on a hot day, I viewed it as a possible area of concern. I had troubles enough without having to fight a bending stock! Hence my choice of light colors and a habit of covering the rifle with a white towel between relays. Hey, we all have our hangups!
I have seen plenty of wood stocks as well which went through some remarkable changes with the weather but I don't presently own any of them.
I have a walnut stock on my present short range BR rifle (a 6 br)and it shoots every bit as well as it did in glass. It was a little difficult to make the weight though!
I have other match rifles, some of which are in laminated wood(2), some are in glass(2), and two are bedded on aluminum blocks (one in a glass stock, one in walnut). All of my current hunting rifles are wood and all are just fine as far as stability is concerned.

Thanks everyone for the replies, lots of helpfull insight!
Big Thanks to John (Seafire) for the generous invite. It would be a pleasure to hunt with you, that is if you could tolarate my using a magnum rifle with spitzer bullets