Will hunt red stag shortly, using either a 30-06 or 300 WM,distances could vary from 50 (if I am lucky enough !) to 250 yards ....

I am looking for a bullet with enough penetration and expansion with good performance in the ranges of the distances mentioned ...

Couldn�t decide wether to use either a 165 or 180 grainer
Think a 165 or 180 gr in Nosler Partition or Barnes X type ...

Suggestions & reasons ??

Thank you all in advance

I can not help you on the nosler end but the barness are excellent for penetration and expansion. After helpinging my deer hunting buddys skin deer for a few years I have come to repect there performance. They converted me.Either weight should work well.

X-bullet. Even the most drastic failure, losing all four petals, is of little consequence due to the monolithic construction.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

Nosler partition gold or Accubond

Simple, P A R T I T I O N . Lawdog

On the Barnes, get the triple shock. They are much easier to find an accurate load for than the regular X. The Partition usually shoot adequately in about anything. I'd use the one that shot the best in my rifle.

You can go with a lighter bullet in the X as opposed to the Nosler. I'd reccomend it, actually.

I'm going to try out some 168Gr TSX next year in my .300WSM...

I have very accurate loads with both bullets.

Another vote here for the Barnes Triple Shock.

Both would be good choices. I have used both with sucess but usually shoot Partitions. I do agree with previous poster that 165 in the 06 and 180 in the .300.

Why not try a Interbond or Accubond? Flatter, Faster, and more reliable expansion. W/ Barnes and Nosler Partition you get good penetration but, very little terminal damage. You are Talking Red Stagg not Cape Buffalo. I would suggest Balistic Tips but, thats just me. I believe in making very quick and very humane kills. I also dont like to go on long blood trails and since I have started using Balistic Tips I have not had many animals get out of their tracks.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Give them both a try. I do like X bullets (never had problem with any of my rifle with them). Both will do their job. Your gun will tell you what it likes. Another alternative is the Failsafe. It is the X front with the Partition back, best of both bullets. Good Luck

Hcliff

I have had the opposite results with BT's. I have sold or given away all the BT I had except 70 grains I shoot out of my 243 for coyotes. I have had three deer hit nicely behind the shoulder that did not give me pass thur's. I recoved all three but two only by luck. I am not saying it will do this all the time. I shot a black bear with a 180 grain BT two years ago that went about 10 yards and 4 deer that died quickly. But three tuff tracks out of 8 is to bad for my liking. After I almost lost a 29" mule in UT last year I gave up on them. Went back to the Partitions. Originally went to the BT since they do shot more accurately.

Between those 2, count me as a vote for partition.

The X bullets OVER penetrate on deer sized animals, leaving small wounds tracks and slower kills on average. Partitions expand more, still pass through in those calibers, and kill faster and more humanely.

Both are too tough IMHO for deer from a good 30 caliber faster than a 308Win. You will still get pass throughs with 180-200 grain Accubonds or BT's with 95%+ of good angles.

All will kill the deer with a well placed shot, but I dislike using bullets too 'tough' for the game being pursued. I prefer quick kills and short tracks!

I'd recommend either the Nosler Partition or the Combined Technology Failsafe bullets, both in 180 grs. Have used the original partition on Moose for decades without a single loss. Fast, humane kills and just about every rifle I shoot 'em out of loves 'em. The Failsafe bullet, works like the Barnes X bullet, but I find it to be a much easier bullet to develop loads for. Some complain that it isn't as accurate as some other premium bullets, however, I haven't had any problems with them and they offer outstanding penetration and high weight retention, without the fickleness of the Barnes. I recommend the 180 gr bullets, simply because on Elk or Moose sized animals, you may not always have the luxury of the perfect shot. The extra weight may help to anchor the animal. If you prefer lighter bullets, you can safely step down the Failsafe, without, too much problems. Overall, you really should choose the bullet that your rifle shoots the best, and what you have the most confidence in. We do not need benchrest accuracy here! Rather, we're talking "minute of deer" or "minute of moose" accuracy. When you factor in your elevated BP, respiration and excitement when you're aiming at a trophy animal, you aren't shooting under MOA, especially under field conditions. Hope this helps.

From Experience on many kills w/ Failsafe bullets, I would strongly discourage the use of them on any game smaller than Moose. I have seen several animals taken w/ these bullets most of which were wt deer and a couple of shots w/ them on elk. The bullets leave very small entrance and exit wounds resulting in long grueling blood trails and some lost game animals. The animals never hardly acted as if they were hit and the blood trails were very thin. Some times we would lose the blood and by miracle stumble upon the game. These were shot out of 300 Win mags and I dont even want to talk about the ones shot from 270 win. W/ the 270, you would be lucky to find tiny drops of blood.

I have heard that the Barnes bullets are much in the same. If you look on the Win. FS box it says intended for LARGE DANGEROUS GAME. And that is exactly what it means. I am not saying that these bullets are not very accurate, well performing bullets, they are if you are an Extreme Big Game hunter. Here in the States we dont have any real large game so These bullets dont shine for our hunting.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Hey Reloader,

What kind of hunting situation were you dealing with when hunting with the Failsafe? What was the load? Velocity? Where was the animal hit?

Frankly, I was a little surprised at your experience. Was the animal shot at extremely close range? I've used the 180 gr Failsafe bullet on several moose and woodland Caribou here in Newfoundland. All have been one shot kills, and all caused the animal to drop after a few yards. Shots were either broadside or quartering away. In the latter case, bullet (.308 Winchester, hot Varget load) hit rib on a nice bull moose (quarters dressed out at 210lb for ea. front and 145lb for rear) shredded top of heart and destroyed the off side shoulder. Bullet was recovered, fully expanded in the nice petal configuration they are supposed to look like and retained I'd say maybe 90%-95% of weight. Bullet was hanging out of the skin on the offside. So, I really can't complain about this bullet. However, you can't go wrong with a Nosler Partition any day of the week.

I remember reading a few months back an article dealing with premium bullet performance. It is a little hazy, but I think the author stated that certain bullets aren't designed to expand at close ranges when fired from magnum class rifles, or something to that effect. Torque and velocity at close ranges tear the petals off the expanding round almost immediately and you are essentially left with a solid projectile that over penetrates. Could account for the poor blood trails maybe?Anyone remember the article?

Barnes TSS, no question.
I've only shot 4 Elk with the Barnes in my 270Win, 2 with the 140gr X-bt and 2 with the 130gr Xlc-bt. None have gone farther than 30 yards. This past season, I took the longest, on game, shot of my life, a lasered 419 yards. The 3x4 bull elk went about 10-15 yards before dropping. A buddy, on the same hunt, shot a cow elk ay a lasered 468yds with his 300WSM and 168gr Barnes TSS. At the shot, she dropped, rolled downhill a bit, and was dead. I've shot quite a few coyotes with the 45gr Barnes X from my 22 Hornet and 222Remmag. The bullet seems to work just as well in the 22's.
That said, either bullet will work, but I would much prefer the Barnes.

Ngonyama,

Try both bullets, try both weights.

The X bullet has a tendency to be finicky (a rough rule of thumb--one in three rifles will like the X bullet for a variety of reasons), and the X will most likely foul a barrel quicker (so be prepared to clean often and dilingently!). The X will perform rather consistently as far as weight retention and penetration regardless of velocity--and penetrate a little further than the Partition.

The Partition gives very little away to the X bullet, though. I find it to be accurate in most rifles.

I have killed 12 elk, 1 moose, 1 caribou, a number of deer, several antelope, and a Stone sheep and Bighorn with the 150gr Partitions and Barnes X with several different 270W's.

I have killed 5 elk, one moose, one caribou, couple deer, and a antelope with two different 30.06 Ack Imp's using 200gr Partitons or Barnes X (I know, this is overkill for anything smaller than a moose--but I pick one rifle and use it the entire fall hunting seasons).

The new Barnes TSX's are an attempt to address the "finickiness" and fouling. I have several boxes in 140gr waiting to be reloaded for some of my 270W's.

Don't forget the FailSafe. It generally performs right along side the Barnes X. I work as guide for several outfitters on occaision, and have seen the FailSafe used on elk.

Go to: http://www.seahook.com/bestbullet.jpg It is one of the most comprehensive bullet tests I have seen. Apparently this test was done before the introduction of the Partition Gold--another interesting bullet.

Also notice how poorly the Ballistic Tip performed. That has been my same experience. I often use the Ballistic Tip as an "accuracy benchmark" for my big game rifles--but I won't use it hunting.

You didn't specifically ask me , but for Redstag (which aren't particulary large) I would try the 180gr Partiton in the 30.06. Despite the advent of these new premium bullets (and no, I ain't forgetting the 55 year old Partition), sectional density still counts for something.

Casey

The game was Whitetailed Deer and the Vel. was 2950 fps. Ranges were from 30 to 150 yards. The Failsafes may work great on Moose and Bigger animals but, on whitetails they do very minimal damage.

Reloader