Sobered up and found I'd booked a Mt. Goat hunt in BC for Late Sept. 2004.
Those who have hunted them.....what caliber did you use? Okay then too...what Mfgr and weight bullet?

Rich Elliott

Rich goats are just not that large or hard to kill however due to area the HUNTER is the one to worry about.
Run lots of stairs starting about know.

I used my 30/06 180 Hornady spire point 56 grains of IMR4350. Good Luck

I used my 338 Gibbs with 225 Kodiak bonded core bullets, it was overkill but I wanted to be ready incase I was able to fill my bear tag.
Redside

Rich, I've taken 3 goats. On the first I used a plain old 30-06 handloaded with a 165 grain "X" bullet at 2880fps. Taken through the shoulders at about 135 yards, the goat ran about 2 feet, straight down. The others 2 were taken with a 300 Wby, with the 180 failsafe and a 165 XLC.

What you do read about goats being able to take a solid hit and not be knocked down is true, however. The goat taken with the 180 failsafe in the 300Wby was about 275 yards away, quartering away. The bullet entered behind the rib cage on the right side, coursed up through chest cavity and broke the left shoulder on the way out. He was not knocked off his feet, nor did he show any indication of being hit. He shifted position slightly, a bit more directly away. My second shot entered the right hip, then followed roughly the same path as the first bullet, through the chest cavity, again exiting through the left shoulder. At this shot he fell.

A more frangible bullet may have downed him more quickly, but I like having the harder bullets due to the grizzlies that live in the same hills.

Rich: I have been there in on the killing of 22 Mt. Goats and have killed an additional 4 myself. This is a tough question. The quick answer is the smaller calibers much more often kill the Goats quicker! Amazing as that sounds in my experience it is true. Calibers I have seen kill goats with one shot are 308 Winchester, 280 Remington, 270 Winchester. I have used the 308 Winchester and 280 Remington myself for one shot kills. I have a close friend that has killed two Goats himself and all three of his sons have killd Mt. Goats with one shot apiece from their 257 Roberts mountain Rifles! My close friend here in Montana took his 12 year old daughter on a Mt. Goat Hunt in 2001. He was worried about recoil and carrying weight for her so they took their trusty 223 Remington along on the Hunt. The lady Hunter killed the Goat with one shot using 55 gr. factory Remington ammo! That Goat is full mounted on their living room wall!
I once shot a Goat 5 times through the boiler room with a 30/06 using Nosler 165 grain Partitions. Each shot drilled through the narrow chest cavity and the Goat bled to death in 30 seconds or so staggering around most of that time! I have seen only multiple shot kills with these calibers on Mt. Goat: 300 Winchester Magnum, 338 Winchester Magnum, 7mm Remington Magnum and the afore mentioned 30/06!
My theory is the Goats can be easily and quickly put down with a boiler room shot from a small caliber, quickly expanding bullet. The larger calibers (like I mentioned) pass through the narrow chest cavity quickly and easily and do not impart the explosive energy inside the chest like the smaller calibers! If a person were to break a shoulder (and spoil a lot of wonderful tasting meat) certain bullets from the larger calibers may be lethal more quickly in that situation. If I was going Mt. Goat Hunting this fall I think I would be using my 280 with 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips!
Good luck on your Hunt and I hope you get a lot of input on this tough situational Hunting. The Goats need to be "anchored" and in my experience the smaller more explosive bullets will do the job.
By the way my fourth and last Goat was taken in SE Alaska and it was so old its fur was turning black in spots! It only had 3 teeth left in its head and weighed (I am certain) 300 pounds on the hoof! This Goat made the Boone & Crockett all time listings! It was killed with one shot through the lungs from my Remington 700 in 308 Winchester! My loading log shows I used the Nosler 150 gr. Partition. As big as this Goat was its chest cavity was still quite narrow. Much narrower than the chest of a similar weight Deer.
Again good luck.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Dale I'm in agreement here with you on your choice of bullets for Mt. Goats. I have used my 7MM Remington with 139 Gr Hornady Interlocks at 3350 fps. Have harvested one goat that was about 250 pounds just outside Northbend. He dropped in his tracks. One shot from 75 feet in the neck no exit.

Rich,

I would agree that bullet choice and shot placement are more important than caliber choice. Goats can be tough to kill, but I've noticed that if shot when not spooked, after a careful stalk, they seem to go down much easier.
Come to think of it, this probably applies to most of our game, eh?

Joe

Oleman: I did not know you took a Goat! Congatulations! I tried for nearly 30 years to be drawn for a tag in Washington and never once did I succeed! I did go along on 14 Hunts with my "Buds" out there though. And then I went to SE Alaska 4 times! Guaranteed tag there in Alaska! We just had a ball on those Alaska Hunts usually 4 of us but one time just 3. The fishing was incomparable there in SE Alaska in September and October. Also in SE Alaska now there are areas where you can get TWO (2) Mt. Goats per year but the bad news now is non-residents need a guide for Mt. Goats! I also forgot to mention that one of my friends from Seattle took a Goat in Alaska with a 30/30 T/C Pistol! It was a one shot kill also. The mind blurs after a while!
Were you up on Mt. Si for that Goat?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Dale not Mt Si but about five miles as the crow flys from there we did a lot of scouting to find a place where we would get out alive and with an animal. My partner had a tag also. My animal was 6 and a half years old. Horns were just a half inch from being real world class too I just hung him on my office wall. Some of the ladies don't like Mr. Bill but you have to give a guy credit if he is a good listener more than most women can say.

Well now... I have several calibers to choose from. All of my rifles are Rem. 700 Classics with Leupold Variables. Same stock and same trigger pull. I could choose from .22-250 (of course not), .270 Win., .30-06, .300 Win. Mag., .35 Whelen, .375 H&H (to much gun) or .458 Lott (are you kidding!) Guess it's down to the .270, .30-06,
or .300 Win. Mag. I've made long shots ( well 280 yards) with the .35 Whelen and 250 grain Nosler Part. handloads but I KNEW the distance.
Keep the info coming..it's invaluable.
Rich Elliott

Rich
Where are you going in BC and with whom? I always like ot know hwere everybody on the forum is going when they come to BC!

I'd use your .270, 30-06, or .300. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

Rich,

Goat hunting is great fun and sometimes very challenging. Personally, I've killed 5 goats
and been with many clients and friends on other kills. I feel Mtn. goats are the TOUGHEST animal in North America to kill so be prepared to do battle. 30-06 minimum with 180 gr. bullets and better yet .300 or .338 with 200 - 250 gr rounds. Goats where your going are the biggest bodied I 've seen and some billy's push the scales at 350 - 400 lbs and these animals live in the harshest conditions year round. It's no wonder why they are so tough.
One more thing. Goats are almost always in or around steep terrain and cliffs. Most goats have a tendency to tumble and that is a sick feeling watching your beautiful goat fall for a couple thousand feet and thier horns are not unbreakable. Try to be selective in where you shoot the goat as far as terrain goes and of course shot placement is important. But sometimes you can shoot a goat perfectly and they hardly react and walk away even after being hit several times. Other times they might just tip over. Usually NOT. Good luck Rich. I'll see you at the SCI in Reno. Keith

I thought I'd get your blood pumping with this bad boy. He was taken in NW British Columbia and last time I heard from my client it was going to be in the top 20 in B & C!!! Green score was 55 1/8!



[ 01-17-2003, 01:08: Message edited by: Keith Atcheson ]

Rich, others here have more experience than I do - I've only been on one successful goat hunt. I was helping a friend who's a guide and his client took a nice old billy. I don't think that the 338 win mag with a 225 partition the client used actually killed the goat though - it was the 350 foot fall straight down the cliff after he got hit that likely finished him! Luckily no broken tips and it made the pack out just a little easier.

My friend's primary hunting rig is also 338WM, but I know for a fact that he's also used a 243 Win. Of course he lives next door to great hunting grounds. I carried a 30-06 on my trip this fall - but I didn't see any good billies, just nannies and kids.

Are you going on a goat only hunt or are you doing a combo hunt for grizzly or black bear or moose too? This might make you want to bring something a bit bigger than is necessary for a goat.

Just when I'm almost swayed to the .270 Win. and 150 grain Hornadys (I get 2,961 fps) I get reminded of how tough those little white Buff's are. So the jury is still out on caliber. I do have a .30-06 thats's done in a lot of critters both here and African game. My pet load there cranks out 2,750 fps with 180 Nosler partitons.

I'm going with Bob Fontana's (Lancaster/Fontana Hunting Co.) outfit. North of Fernie, BC in the Kootenay Mt's. as I understand it.
Rich Elliott

Keith, Yep! Booth #2133
Rich

[ 01-17-2003, 18:36: Message edited by: Rich Elliott ]

Rich,

you said all your rifles are Rem 700 and one of them is chambered for the Lott... That's a project I have in mind too (Rem 700 is a rifle that caught my attention as it can be ordered left-hand). Did you get it in 458 win and have the chamber reamed or did you start with a 416 chambering and have the barrel replaced?

Thanks.

Baboon King (couldn't resist),

I had a Model 700 Safari Classic in .458 Win. Mag. I had it chambered out to the Lott, Magna ported, and an additional recoil lug brazed on the barrel. Then I had it glass bedded and an island base added for a filed single shallow Vee. The original front sight ramp now has a 1/8th white bead. I also added a barrel band sling stud. I didn't have to do anything about the feeding as it fed perfectly. Worked okay for me.
Rich Elliott

P.S. But it is much too heavy for Mt. Goat

[ 01-17-2003, 23:26: Message edited by: Rich Elliott ]

I used a 7mm Rem Mag shooting Federal Premiums with 160 gr Noslers for my goat hunt. I think anything from 270 Win to one of the 300 Mags would be a good choice. One important consideration is rifle weight. They don't call them Mountain Goats for nothing. You have to climb up to them.

My goat was taken in the Collegiate Peaks Wilderness Area in Colorado and as near as we could figure he was at about 13500 ft in elevation when we finally got a shot. The shot was around 300 yards. I would recommend practicing at ranges up to 350 yards or more. Goats are pretty tough and have a hump on their shoulders that cause some folks to shoot them too high. You want the bullet to hit in the lower half of the chest. I'd try to take out at least one shoulder too. If you don't anchor them you may lose your billy over a cliff. That kind of thing happens every year.

I believe Mountain Goats are an under-appreciated game animal. You get all the sport of mountain hunting at a fraction of the cost for sheep hunting. In my experience the goat will live in rougher country too. I hope to go after them again, but tags in Colorado are hard to get and I can't even apply again for the next 5 years. It will be an interesting hunt for you. Hell, I wish I was going.

Mac

I am pretty familiar with Bobby Fontana's territory. Beautiful country you will have the time of your life up there. Bring your fishing rod too the creeks, rivers and lakes are packed full of great Cut-throat fishing. I'm planning on putting in for a goat draw for that area for next fall.

Goodluck with your hunt.

Mark

Just thought I would throw this out there too.

In 1905 William T Hornady( if its the same Hornady family that makes the bullets I don't know but its pretty likely) took a trip up to the territory you are going into. He was a zoologist from New york and wanted to catch some goats to take back for study. He wrote a book about it called "Camp fires in the Canadian Rockies" The only copy of the book I have ever seen though was one my dad has that was printed in 1925. But it has some great stories of what he saw up in that area. The area was still pretty Virgin at the time and there are still some peaks in the area that were named after people on the expidition.

I can't remember how many hundred Goats they counted on there 30 day trip.

I can not remember a time that I have been in there that I have not seen Goats someplace in Bobby's territory in the Start of September.

Mark

HI,

I guess I am on the bandwagon, but what about a 416 Rigby with a 350 grain, one can shoot out to 400 yards. And the weight can be held down if some custon work is done. Thanks,Kev

I've only taken one mountain goat. Draws for the good areas in the southern end of B.C are not easy to come by. I was a one gun hunter at the time and it was a RugerM77II stainless in 7mmrem mag loaded with 154gr. Hornady FB.
Great kill! The goat was standing on a rock with a narrow ledge below and a steep thousand below that. I Blew out the lungs and broke the outside shoulder. He dropped onto that ledge and a couple of kicks later, dead. The shot was a bit risky but the bullet performed perfectly.
I loaded these ontop of RL22 and just used hornady's max listing and had amazing accuracy.
Next season if I get my draw I might use my 25/06.
If I don't get my draw I'll hunt a archery zone up in northern B.C.

Just finished a bighorn hunt in Colorado and took a 3/4X7/8's curl with a 16" 6.5-284 XP100 custom built by Gre-Tan rifles of Kersey, CO. Since I began using specialty pistols 20 or so years ago, I'll never use a rifle again. Just about everything a rifle will do, the specialty pistols will also do, besides quick offhand shooting, which could obviously be a problem. But for the backpack hunter that is concerned with weight, the specialty pistols are IT!! If you think they will limit your range, give them a try sometime--believe me when I say, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Whatever you decide, be sure and get a scope equipped with a reference reticle, or target turret system, and determine your EXACT impact points at whatever range you feel comfortable. When I took my sheep, I used aBurris 3-12X LER scope with the Ballistic Plex reticle installed that gave me exact aiming points out to 750 yds. (beyond 400 or so is for rockchucks only). The shot was 300 yds. and with the use of my Leica 1200 yd. rangefinder the shot presented no challenge at all (which it shouldn't). Right after I shot mine I helped another hunter equipped with a Browning A-bolt .300 Mag. try to get one. He missed the only opportunity he got at 300 yds. because he didn't know where his bullet was impacting at that range. Can you believe it? Opportunity of a lifetime missed because he wasn't prepared. Check out my sheep if you want at www.perry-systems.com in the testimonials section. Good Luck.

Thank you Rich.
And, I wasn't thinking about mountain goat precisely

sscoyote,

That's a god ram. Mind if I ask what area you were hunting? I drew a tag for S-32 in 1986 and the bunny huggers ruined my hunt back then. That was before the hunter harrasment law was on the book. Been trying to pull another tag since. I've been concentrating on S-9 since I have a friend that guides down that way and knows where the rams hang out.

Maybe this is my lucky year.

Mac

I have seen a fair amount of Grizzlies in that area in the past. Couldn't hurt to take the 300. You know. Just in case.

Mark

Mac,
Got the ram in a location that seems to be pretty popular for them, as a # of them have been taken here-- just W. of south Medano Lake. The trail follows the north side of the lake, and meanders past the scree slopes up to a saddle. Once you top the saddlethe opposite slope is the Smith Creek drainage which drops into Sand Creek. Look at the statistics posted by CDOW. A lot of rams have been taken in this area. When I checked the animal in at Pueblo's DOW office, they were quite impressed by it--saying that not too many rams that big come out of that area. I was there at the right time, I guess. Another hunter told a friend of mine that he saw a full curl there a few years ago. If I was going to hunt this area again I would glass the west side of S9 from the highway that runs between Alamosa, and Poncha Pass in the afternoon (western sun) as I believe if a guy had a quality optic he just might be able to study a good portion of the SW slope of the Sangres, and save hisself a lot of packing-- maybe. By the way, would that outfitter you know be the Purcell boys by any chance. I used to sell coyote furs to them when they were in the business a # of years ago.

Rich,

I live in the Elk Valley and have shot numerous billies in the area you will be hunting. I have taken all my goats with 140gn Partitions in a 6.5-06. No problems. Magnums make me nervous when there is a possibility of shooting from a precipice. The country is some of the wildest that remains in south east BC and we are working to keep it that way. You will be hunting with a 1st class outfit from the horses to the accomodations to the guides. Your hunt will require lots of film.

Markus,

William T. Hornaday is no relation to Hornady bullets (note the spelling) and his book was published in 1906 and took place south of Fontana's hunting area. Hornaday's party didn't get that far north in the Elk Valley. If you want more information or a copy of Campfires in the Canadian Rockies, let me know.

Iceman

Iceman,

Thanks alot for correcting me. The map in that book is a little confusing especially with where he shows Aldridge creek. I havn't been able to read the whole book yet as my Dad has the copy of it. But what I have read is a pretty amazing story. At times I think those guys were lunatics.

Glad to know some one else knows about that book.

Mark

sscoyote,

The outfitter I know is Joe Boucher of Horn Fork Guides. He helped me fill my goat tag. Heck of a nice guy and runs a really good outfit. Takes lots of big elk and deer and runs 100% for goats and sheep.

Mac

I have shot two with a 358STA and never felt overgunned.

Nice goat! And you had the sun to go with it....... Did you get your goat up Hidden Basin? Good job anyway.

Thanks for all of the info. You guys are making me wish it was this fall instead of next (2004).
I 'm going to be just a bit south of there this fall in the Bob Marshall Wilderness out of Choteau, MT. Elk and Mule Deer. Just sent off for my Combo tag.
Re. Medincine for Mt. Goat...I'll be visiting Bob Fontana in Reno and see which caliber he recommends. I'm stil tempted to use the .270 Win. with 150 grain Hornady Interlok Spire points.
Now somebody correct me on that.
Rich Elliott

I just don't know about this, I have been on three Goat kills, two with the 25/06 120 grain bullet and my late brother with his 243 100 grain bullet, the first ones at about 250 yards and the last one at about 350 yards.
These were our British Columbia Goats up around the Mcgillvary area.
But I guess I would have to add that if I had to recommend a caliber on a once in a lifetime hunt, I would say use at least a 270 with 140 grain Hornady's. But I never found the 25/06 or 243 lacking.
Bill

[ 01-22-2003, 20:28: Message edited by: partsman ]

Rich,

Your choice of the .270 with 150 grainers is ideal. No correction required. Good Hunting.

Markus,

If I ever draw a goat tag in Hornaday country again I intend on hunting it with a peep sighted Model 99 Deluxe in .303 Savage just like WTH used 100 years ago. I'm a romanitc at heart and a bit of a Hornaday nut. Now I just need a tag and a Model 99 Deluxe. By the way, I have an original Campfires in the Canadian Rockies signed by both Hornaday and Phillips and an original of Hornaday's second sheep hunting book, Campfires on Desert and Lava.

Iceman