Please share your experience with the 338 Win, 375 H&H, and the 338 RUM for elk-bear sized game. My only experience with any of these is shooting the 338 Win and 375 H&H a few times. Neither were pleasant but both were definitely manageable.

I'm looking to build a rifle on one of these and here's where I'm at:

338 Win - Proven round - seems to be a big favorite. Not as expensive to shoot and seems to be a good all-arounder due to mix of availability/thump/shootability/trajectory. If I were planning on hunting elk+ sized game in the next couple years, this would be my only choice. Best up to 400 yards.

375 H&H - Classic round - renowned for it's stopping power. Manageable recoil with big THUMP. Worst trajectory between the 3 choices. Best up to 300 yards.

338 RUM - Long range hammer. I like flat....I like powerful....but I also like my retnas!! I've heard that the recoil isn't as bad as the rumors claim, especially in a properly stocked rifle. Potential to be loaded down for practice and work up to full-house loads for hunting seems to be a good option as I won't need it for hunting for several years. Best over 400+ yards.

Both 338s look to be easily capable of 400 yards(with only ~3" difference between the two). How often would you need a round capable of shooting 300 or 400+ yards???

I'd hate to pass up on the trophy of a lifetime because it was out of range but years of practice ought to offset the trajectory issue somewhat.

I've posted this on 24 Hour Campfire also to gather as much input as possible as I have no field experience with any one of the three and want to make an informed decision. Thanks.

[ 12-24-2002, 03:50: Message edited by: Nebraska ]

Nebraska From what you have stated in your post I think you should go with the 338 Win Mag. By my shoulder it kicks less than the 375, and I think it kicks less than a 300Mag. If you are concerned about trajectory I would use the 210gr. Partition. Shoots plenty flat, strong enough for a close range shot, should open up at long range. For the use you describe it would be hard to beat.

My thoughts exactly !!! I also feel a .338 Win kiks less than a .300 Mag, and I've had both at the same time in same exact gun. I also use a 210 Nosler Partition and have been extremely happy with its quick killing power.

bowhuntr

I have only used the .338 Win. for a few years, but have taken 2 elk with the 225 gr. Nosler partition and 3 with the 250 gr. partition. Both bullets worked fine. I use the 250 gr. now because it gives more penetration. Any of them work fine for a broadside shot, but I shot two of them lengthwise. If you look at the trajectories of the 210, 225, and 250 gr. bullets, all at their maximum velocities, there is very little difference in trajectory out to 400 yards. The difference in trajectory is probably insignificant compared to the range estimation abilities of most of us. 2-3" of difference in trajectory at 400 yards is not as significant in a 50 yard error in range. I would use the bullet that gives the best accuracy with reasonable velocity. In a Ruger M77 that I had years ago and a Rem. 700 that I use now, the 250 gr. bullets shot much better than the 210 gr. so I have just used the heavier bullets.

I have also been happy with the .338 as a deer rifle. No more meat damage than a .270 with a decent bullet, and often less damage.

This Opinion is based on my experiences with each. The 338 Win Mag is a very good cartridge. Not a long range cartridge, in my opinion over 400 yards is long range with this one. 375 H&H is also a very awesome cartridge and probably the consumate African cartridge. The 338 RUM has both beat with your criteria and the recoil IS over exaggerated! Most of the EXPERTS I have found don't even own one NOR have they fired one more than once, if that. I not only shot a very nice mule deer with mine this year but a standing coyote at a laser measured 712 yards. When you look at a 225 grain bullet @ 3200 you are in the same energy league as my 416 Rigby. PREMIUM bullets are a must and shot placement as with any cartridge is the same issue but the 338 RUM is in a league ALL ITS OWN! And yes it IS a long range "sledge hammer"! Good Hunting, Merry Christmas. "Z"

I have used all the calibers you mentioned with the exception of the RUM. With that said let me say that I have used the 340 Weatherby quite a bit and the 330 Dakota. Presently I am having a rifle chambered to the RUM.

Point is that they are all great calibers but the 338 Winchester would always be my recommendation for the theoretical "ALL AROUND" caliber. It will handle the beasts that you mentioned easily and as far away as you should be shooting at them. It also can be housed in a lighter more portable rifle because it has quite a bit less recoil. I shot everything from deer to sheep, caribou, moose and a load of African stuff with a custom 338 that tipped the scales at 7lb 2oz with a 2.5x8 Leupold. I used that rifle almost exclusively for twelve years and never felt under gunned.

The 375 is one of my all time favorites but it does its best work inside of 250 yd. Of course it will shoot further but long distance is not its forte and if you go to lighter bullets you have negated the reason for the using the 375.

The big 33's all take a little getting used to in the recoil department. Muzzle brakes, long barrels and more gun weight are really needed to get the most out of them.

Get a 338. You will be happy.

I bought my first 338 Win Mag in November from one of the board members. Sighted it in and used it the following weekend to take my first elk, a 5x6 at about 110 yards using the Remington 250 gr. factory load. Even though it's a short carbine I don't feel like it kicks very bad at all. It's still got what looks like the original 40 year old recoil pad on it, I'm going to install a decellerator when I replace it and I think it will be even less of a kicker. I'm medium height, medium build and getting on to 50, if I can shoot it anyone can.

I don't have much experience with 338's. I owned one 338Win and a 340 Weatherby, but I never shot much with either. I've been with hunters who have used the .338 Win, and it's been great on elk. I do have a lot of experience with the 375 H&H, and I personally prefer it. I've used mine out to 300 yds. several times, and everything it hits goes down pretty quickly if hit right, including Elk, bears, Wildebeest, etc. I use 270 or 300 Gr. bullets, and I think the 338's are best using 225's or 250's. I would feel fine using any of the 3 out to 400 yards, and I personally will not take shots much farther than that.

Nebraska,

I have used the .338 Winchester and .375 H&H. I do not have experience with the .338 RUM. However, I would expect the .338 RUM to be an outstanding cartridge. I think the .338 bore can make good use of the additional powder without being overbore. My concern with the .338 RUM would be recoil. I have not used the .340 WBY but have attemped to use the .378 WBY and it was outside my recoil comfort zone.

My preference has been for the .338 Winchester over the .375 H&H. Felt recoil of these calibers are about the same to me. I like the sectional density of the .338 bullets better than the .375. I have tried the lighter .375 bullets i.e. 210 gr and 235 gr and and don't plan on going that route again. In fact, 300 gr .375's are about all I use any more. The .338 offers an advantage in long range trajectory over the H&H which is worth considering for Elk. I have settled on the 250 gr bullet in the .338. I have a slight preference for a 26' barrel over a 24".

Nebraska, The 338 Win mag will handle anything the 338 Ultra will handle up to 400 yards with no hicups.

The .375H&H is a little heavy in weight when compared to most factory made rifles for packing in the mountains for elk or mule deer. It would however be my first choice for big bears. My 338 Ultra kicked worse than my .375 Weatherby as far as felt recoil went.....it was just to light at 8.25 pounds in that plastic stock. I also ended up not being able to hit with it like my 300 Ultra mag or 338 Win mag at 400 yards accuracy wise.

If you are a little less tolerant of recoil, by all means go with the 338 Win mag. Hunting bears with a handloaded 250 grain Barnes X bullet or a Swift A Frame in a 275 grain bullet will not leave you on the light end of things as far as any bear goes.

I only have one big game rifle, a .338WM. I use this rifle for moose hunting (in bear country, of course), and have killed most of my moose with 230-grain FS bullets. The farthest shot has been 300 yards, and the closest 100 yards. The 230-grain FS out of my .338 has broken both shoulder bones of moose 200 yards out, then exited. I have only shot one moose that way, and the rest through the lungs/heart. Last year's moose dropped to one 250-grain Nosler Partition from Federal HE ammo. This moose was 250 yards away.

The other cartridges mentioned here are also outstanding performers. I favor the .338WM because it has worked for me since I started hunting with it. Since there are so many .33 cartridges, bullet manufacturers have created a great number of bullets you can choose from. There are a few bullet weights that are not often mentioned such as the ones made by Alaska Bullet Works (Kodiak bullets). I believe they make .33 bullets from 225 to 300 grains. Also Wooleigh makes some well known bullets up to 300 grains. On the light side, Barnes makes 160 to 250-grain bullets for the .33's, including a 210 grainer XLC (blue coated).

I have a 338 Win mag and like it a lot. It will be going to Alaska this Spring to go on my 3rd Grizzly hunt. I've never shot the 338 Ultra, but used to have a 340 Weatherby. For me the recoil was just to much. It kicked hard and fast. Had a muzzle brake but even with ear protection it was hard on my ears. I would think that the 338 Ultra would recoil about the same. I don't really see the 338's as long range rifles. The advantage of them is to be able to use heavy bullets for big game. You shouldn't shoot the big bears at over 275 yards, at least I wouldn't. 100 yards is lots better. Makes for a more memorable hunt to get good and close to the big bears.

Nebraska, sometime back I got a notion to try out those 275 grain Swift A Frame bullets in one of my 338 mags. I came to the conclusion that using this bullet brings even closer the gap between the 338 and the .375 H&H (which is a heavier weighted rifle) which so many rave about. I also tried them in a 338 Ultra mag, but that gun was just to light and hit this old body harder than I wanted to be kicked.

I have just about leveled most of my big game hunting to the 338 mag in the Barnes X 250 grain bullet (RL-19 @ 70 grains = 2650fps) or the Swift A Frame 275grain @ 2600fps Max. I haven't tried those 300 grain Woodlieghs as of yet.

I've considered buying a 338rum but there is not alot of reload data out there yet. I'm leaning towards a 340 weatherby or the proven 338win because of the endless choices of rifles it's chambered in.

blaaaaaaaa
Get a 375H&H if you own a 300 mag dont bother with the 338s.
RAY be quiet!!

I use a .375 H&H overhere in europe for our bores, so can�t tell anything of the killing effect on bears.
But...can�t understand the preview posts concerning the recoil. My custom build M98 shoots like hell, and the recoil is realy comfortable.
A caliber for real men
Go for it!! U won�t regret it.
The key to low recoil is the form of the stock. Get a safari styles stock, which is a straight as possible.

konst

Radical idea......What about a .338-06??? I've taken an elk at 300+ and a few other heads of game with mine and despite modest on paper ballistics it works GREAT in the field. Low recoil, easy ton the ears as well. Mine is one a new M70 and between the great stock design and a pad its got minimal recoil.
A good 250 gr bullet at 2500 fps or a 210 partition at 2800 fps may not be up to .338 Win Mag standards but nothing to sneeze at.

FN in MT

Just had my first experience with the .375 H&H on game. Awsome !!! unreal combination of power & low recoil !!

Nebraska - I've used a .338 for the following:
1) Scimitar Oryx - double lung (through and through)shot at ~80 yards, Oryx staggered about 50 feet braced itself and bled out within 20 seconds. 2) Eland - shot through the heart (bottom half sheared off) at ~100 yards ran about 40 yards and dropped dead. The recovered bullet (the only one of any animal we shot) was totally opened up with most of the lead gone, it apparently hit the offside rib after blowing up the heart and went straight up the rib cage about 18 inches resting under the skin. 3) Wildebeest front quartering shot ~130 yards...Animal staggered then turned and ran, 2nd shot through both front shoulders= wildebeest down for the count. Used 250 grain Noslers. I've also seen a .375 (w/ 270 grain Noslers) to take an eland - heart shot again - eland ran nearly 100 yards before cashing in. Saw same rifle take another Wildebeest - spined at ~100 yards - animal dropped where it stood and was dead when we got up to it.

The 338 Win comes in more user friendly rifles than the other two. 375s are long and heavy, 338 rem has poor selection of rifles. Not much you can't hunt with a 338 win.

Boilleroom, The difference between the 338 mag and the 333 Ultra mag is the same difference as the 300 Win mag and the 300 Weatherby mag. I carried the 300 Win mag for many a year, that 6% extra energy and 12% extra recoil for the 300 Weatherby wasn't worth it in my eyes, not to mention the 40% extra cost of Weatherby shells at the time, if you could find them in a store.

I am not one for telling a guy how to spend his money, but what use is a cannon if you can't hit anything with it......Duh!
The 338 Win mag is a solid 400 yard gun and that is really plenty in the minds of 95% of hunters out there these days. That extra power sounds good on paper, but try and hit something with it at 450 yards after 10 shots from the bench and you start flinching......No thanks you, I been there already with that 338 Ultra and found that I shoot the 300 and 338 mag much tighter in groups at that distance. I would surely try one out before I put my money down and took it home, only to find out the old man was right and your stuck with a cannon you can't hit squat with in the field.

Chigger,

I hope you keep posting and re-posting the voice of reason!!! I believe what you're saying is correct for me too. I still suffer from the bigger is better bug and those paper ballistics tend to skew reality for me. I have a feeling that my experience with those rounds would/will be the same as yours with the smaller groups at long range going to the easier shooting gun, thus negating the trajectory issue entirely. I hope I can remind myself of that fact the minute before I say "I do".

I'd love to try all 3 side by side one of these days. I won't be needing them for hunting purposes for several years so hopefully I'll have that opportunity. Maybe I'll just have to get one of each and sell off the losers!!!

My favorate gun in the safe is .338Win Mag. Just gotta love it. I use mine for black bear and with A-frames or X bullets it is sure death to anything.

Nothing to be affraid of!!!!

I was at the range today, and fired approx. 40 rounds, of the bench, with my 338 Ultra Mag.
It was some quite stiff loads with 250 grs bullets. Sure it kicks, but just let it kick. It wount hurt you as long as you have a classic straight stock, a good lenght of pull, and the right scope for it.

It's a pussy!! (a bit angry one , though! )

Nebraska... if you already own a 300 mag I wouldnt even bother with the 338 and go with 375.

I had a 300 Wby but sold it last year because it was too much gun for deer. After I sell my SS Rem 700 BDL DM in 30-06, I won't have anything over 7mm in the safe. I'm planning on shooting a 25-28 cal for game that's deer sized on down and jumping to a 338+ for anything elk sized on up.

I've been doing more accumlating than consolidating lately though so maybe I'll just have to get another safe, fill it, and forget the two rifle idea. Besides, if I keep spending money on guns, I won't have any left over for hunting anyway.

I have a M70 .338 & 3 x .375 H&H's. You can see where my preference lies. The recoil of the .338 is lighter than a .375 but not by much. Anyway the recoil thing is most of an issue on the bench. For this I use a recoil jig for any calibre .270 up. Why punish yourself??

On game the saying that you won't notice the recoil is very true. In which case go with the biggest & baddest that you like. You can always load it down a bit if recoil is uncomfortable. I am thinking of converting one of my .375 a M70 stainless to .375 RUM. Everyone I know is against it but none have shot it!! Hmm. Saeed uses the equivalent for just about everything to great effect & recoil does not seem to be an issue.

If you can shoot the .375 get the RUM if that is what you like. From the animal's point of view, they can't tell the difference between them.

Nebraska,

I'd have to agree with Ray AK and say the .338Win. is about as good as it gets. Recoil in my Browning is very easy to handle. My son's Ruger M77 Synthetic in .338Win. is, on the other hand, downright unpleasant to shoot. I've taken moose, elk, deer, and bear with mine and never had to shoot more then once except on a large Whitetail that took two. I shoot a custom BRNO .375H&H a bit(not mine) and the recoil is easy to handle. Haven't shot the .338RUM yet.
I guess what I'm getting at is, if it were my choice, I would go with the .375UltraMag and load it up or down as needed. Hope I helped.

Joe

Of those mentioned, I've only taken game with the 338 WM... to me it's a very practical and well balanced cartridge and works well in a 22" barrel. Coupled with a 22" bbl'd "deer rifle" in 270, 7-08, 7x57, 280, 308 or 30-06 you don't need anything else for big game. Why anyone want to lug around a 26" barel in the mountains is beyond me. A properly stocked 338 WM that goes 8lbs ("all-up" sling, scope and three rounds) is nearly perfect for any big, big game in NA. I've only used mine for elk, but it works with authority. Recoil is entirely tolerable... the 340 Wby is a step up in recoil and the 338 RUM is a big jump. I think most guy's need to put away the ballistic charts... if you NEED something bigger than a 338 WM then you probably need to go up in bore size... IMHO

BA

[ 01-04-2003, 06:29: Message edited by: Ron L ]

I have taken whitetail deer, mule deer, black bear, elk, dall sheep, caribou all with my .338 Win Mag. None went very far. As Keith Atchesons says "it numbs them".

My longest shot was at an elk which was laser ranged at 425 yards. The 225 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw broke the tops of both shoulder as well as his spine with the bullet stopping just under the skin on the offside shoulder. He collapsed in his tracks. I had Premier Reticles put ranging dots for me in my Leupold 2X8 scope at 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards. I practice shooting it out to 500 yard at the range. I took that shot at the elk with no wind at dusk on my last day of a 7 day guided elk hunt from a lying down position. I had practice that shot so much off of the bench that I knew the gun was capable of doing it.

I also took a yukon moose in Alaska at 200 yards across a valley. 2 of the 3 rounds that I put into him exited with me recovering 1 round that broke both of his shoulders. This again was the 225 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

I also own a .375 H&H magnum which I have hunted with in Africa once. It is also a fine caliber but the bullet selection is much more limited than the .338. The .375 is heavier (10 lbs, 24 inch barrel) than my .338 (8 lbs, 22 inch barrel) so the recoil is pretty comparable. My .375 is not as accurate as my .338.

Think about carrying a 8 pound or a 10 pound rifle around. 2 pounds do make a difference by the end of the day, expecially if you are having to climb at all.

If I was going to hunt mostly North America and wanted to use one rifle only, I would get the .338 Win Mag. If I had thoughts of hunting Africa for buffalo, I would get the .375 H&H.

I would not get the .340 Weatherby or the .338 WUM. Ammo can really be a problem if yours does not arrive on your plane flight. Recoil and muzzle blast for anyone near you is a significant problem.

Good luck in your decision.

Thanks for the replies thus far!

Ron L....what a great ending to a hunt! Is the warranty still good on that Leupold after you put in a custom reticle? If so, that sounds like a great idea.

I'd have to agree with other posters that a plain old .338WM is hard to beat, although I also dearly love my .375 H&H.

As far as recoil concerns go, I think you'll find that the key to that is how well the rifle fits you. I've had 788 Remingtons in much lighter calibers that just plain HURT, while my favorite .338 Sako L61R is (to me) a pussycat....and I bought it from a guy who found it unbearable! I also briefly owned a Tikka in .338 that literally made my eyes go fuzzy every time I touched it off. I very reluctantly sold it to a rather small woman, who wouldn't part with it for the world!

My advice is to try a bunch of different rifles in a caliber you like, and choose the one that feels the best! A rifle that you enjoy shooting (and hence shoot well), is infinitely better than one that gives you a flinch. As far as I'm concerned, fit is everything.

Any other experience out there?

Nebraska,

I took my own advice. I bought a Rem.700BDL .375RUM at cost, maybe less, at a going out of business sale. I'm having some work done to it after which I'll put it in a Hogue Overmolded Stock. I have most of the reloading components in hand. Hopefully no more than a month away from having it all together.

Joe

Milo,

Welcome to the Forums. Under $500.00. I was happy and I've got money to spend on fixing it up like I want.

Joe

Milo,

I got mine down here on the lower peninsula. They had a bunch the day I was there. Two days later, all guns were gone and all reloading supplies also. That's been a couple of weeks ago.
Call before you cancel the other.

Joe

All I know is that my 338 kicks more than all my other rifles, both 300 Win and 9.3x62 mauser

I've used both, and the 338 is my choice as an all around hunting rifle. I use 210 Partitions, and use the same gun for antelope and deer, to avoid the hassle of taking multiple rifles on a hunt. I think the 338 is the ulitimate "one gun rifle". As an aside, I agree with the people that think the recoil is mild. The 300 mags are the most uncomfortable guns I know of to shoot. I have even owned a couple of 7mm Mags that were more uncomfortable to shoot than a 338, when stoked with heavy bullets.

One thing that is really starting to get me is the fantasy over the last few years of the 400 or 500 yard rifle. Stop it! There is no such thing. We have been absolutly inundated with trajectories, with no consideration given to wind. Over any practical range in western hunting, wind is much more of an issue than range. The last antelope I shot was at 210 yards. I held dead on, but over a foot to the left to connect. We have laser rangefinders, but not laser wind guages. As mentioned above, under or overestimateing the range by 50 yards us much more severe than 2-3" difference in trajectory. I will be so bold as to say that no one can reliably tell the difference between 400 and 450 yds in the field unless they have ranged the ground previously. If you have a rangefinder, then the difference in trajectory is inconsequential, since you will know the range (and trajectory) exactly.

I am afraid that what some people mean by a 400 yard rifle is one that they can simply aim at the animal and hope they hit it. This isn't very fair to the animal.