The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Hornady asks us to send letters!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
To lawmakers stoping the HSUS petition to ban traditional hunting bullets on all Federal land. LINK
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one of us |
I already sent mine. Screw HSUS! | |||
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| One of Us |
In addition to sending the email to the Interior Department, I also sent it to my two Senators and Congressman asking that they voice their opposition to the Secretary of the Interior. | |||
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One of Us |
I sent mine also ! | |||
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| One of Us |
+1 | |||
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| One of Us |
I posted this on several forums, and you'd be surprised by some of the responses.
If people can't/won't get a clue that this issue is deeper than copper and lead, we could possibly loose this battle. | |||
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| Administrator |
Sadly, a typical answer from someone who feels " this does not affect me". | |||
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| One of Us |
Yep, one of many like that in our country that just doesn't follow politics and has their head up their ass! Very typical and why we have BHO in the big house for 8 years taking this country down the tubes! | |||
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One of Us |
And he is going to sight in his rifle with different bullets to those he will hunt with! ??? "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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One of Us |
Hell that isn't bad……… I have actually had a couple of hunters show up with a plastic bag full of .30-06 ammunition that contained factory ammunition with everything from 150 up to 220 grain bullets……… and not enough of any one to sight the rifle in and have enough to hunt with. I kid you not!!!! Nothing surprises me any more. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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One of Us |
Please don't bite my head off and let me play the devil's advocate here. It's perfectly reasonable to question the motives of banning lead ammunition when you look at who's pushing the legislation. But, from an objective viewpoint, what is the big deal? Lead has been banned from many products over the years and, truth be told, there were valid reasons for removing it. There were many dire predictions that never came true. After a period of developement the lead free products usually worked as well - or better than the earlier leaded versions. From Roman times until the late 19th. century lead was commonly used for water pipes. It has been argued that mental illness brought on by long term exposure to lead from drinking water may have contributed to the downfall of the Roman empire. Lead was banned from plumbing but we still enjoy running water. Lead was being phased out of gasoline beginning in the early 1970's. There were predictions that engines would need valve jobs every 20,000 miles and poor people wouldn't be able to afford a car because of the amount of maintenance required on account of lead free gasoline. They said we'd be lucky to get 100 hp out of a big V8 engine and it would get 5 mpg. Didn't happen. Vehicles run cleaner, are more powerful, last longer and get better mileage than ever. When was the last time you ever heard of someone needing a valve job? Lead based paint was common until the '70's. It was banned (Chinese toys excepted) but today's paint is as good as ever. I work in the electronics industry and lead was banned from solder 10 years ago. I'll be the first to admit that lead free solder is a pain to work with but think of all of the billions of electronic devices built each year. Sooner or later they'll all be discarded. ROHS laws have already kept untold millions of tons of lead out of landfills. I could see a reason for concern if there were no viable alternatives for leaded ammunition available. But that's not the case. The only issue is that lead free ammunition currently costs a little more. If a small increase in the cost of ammunition really affects your ability to go hunting you probably couldn't afford it in the first place. Economy of scale would eventually wipe out any price difference. And who's to say that excpetions can't be made for ammunition (such as pellets and .22's) for which there are no reasonable lead free replacements available. (Leaded gasoline is still available for avation and racing.) Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm not making an argument that lead free ammunition should be mandated. It has not been proven beyond doubt that solid, metallic lead (as is used in ammunition) is all that toxic. It is the oxides of lead, which are released when lead is melted, burned or leached, that are so harmful. I really don't see this as a big deal one way or the other. No longer Bigasanelk | |||
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Careful playing Devil's advocate on here, people don't like that. I agree with you on all the points you made. I reload/hand load my ammunition and have been using Barnes "X" bullets since the mid 90's and the only lead or cup and core bullets I use are in Lora's .257 Robert's. It is partial to 117 grain round nose Remington Core Locts, but it handles the various Barnes bullets fairly well if a tweak things a little. My .44 Magnum/.351 Win.S.L. and .38-55 I load with cup and core or copper plated bullets. I don't hunt Public Land that much but if I were going to I have other options as far as rifles go. I go along with the idea that mandating things like this is stepping over the line, but our government has been quite open about being willing to do as it chooses, regardless of what the citizens think. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Some of my hunting rifles I use E-Tips and Barnes bullets by choice. Hunting big business in Western states and some smaller towns here in Co depend on those hunting dollars. We had lot of court battle trying to stop PD shooting and I'm not sure banning lead on Federal land is step to also ban hunting when you look at the whole picture. Right now Colorado DOW pays crop damage from wildlife also livestock killed from Mt Lions etc. Elk/deer don't stay on Federal land all year long their wintering on private land here. VFW | |||
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"Do no harm" is the first rule of medicine. It should also be the first rule of Government. If they can't prove "harm," we don't need the law or regulation. The military has already cast their "green" vote and it will cost our industry some of Lead bullet market flow I am sure. Industry often moves simply out of fear of government regulation and if you can't hunt with Lead bullets next year or maybe you can't the year after that, would you be investing in making a billion of them this year? American business is suffocating under the weight or regulation or the threat thereof. Sadly, "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Who will enforce this?????Put pressure on your State Legislators to have State Wardens mind their own biz.O Commy cannot expect individual states to foot the Bill for any asinine federaL LEGISLATION!!!!  | |||
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| One of Us |
If one has to explain to Bigasanelk or any others why banning banning leaded bullets is just a start by the antis, then it's a hopeless cause! Leaded ammunition is in no way comparable to eliminating lead pipes carrying our drinking water, paint that is throughout the environment to be breathed, etc. An animal is dead regardless of whether it's hit with a lead bullet or a properly made substitute and doesn't know the difference. This is not like eliminating lead in shot used for waterfowl hunting where a lot of the shot was being ingested by birds. There is nothing in this request by the antis that has anything to do with lead harming animals or humans. Ms. Jewel is a very smart lady and I would hope and believe that she will see through this first attempt at eliminating hunting altogether! | |||
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First, let me say again that I am not necessarily advocating for the banning of lead ammunition. I'm not convinced that metallic lead poses a significant health hazard. There are a lot of people who are walking around with bullets inside their bodies. My Dad had a .22 slug in his hand for 50 years with no obvous ill effect. (Feel free to bring up the possibility of genetic damage to offspring if you want to...) No matter if all the hype is justified or not, the overall trend seems to be towards removing lead based products from the environment. With effective substitutes available, I just don't see how the banning of lead ammunition is any different than previous bans on a myriad of other lead based products over the past few decades. Call me blind or stupid if you want to but I really don't understand how this is a "first step" towards the end of hunting or shooting. Does anyone seriously believe that anybody is going to give up hunting or shooting because lead free bullets cost a few cents more each? I would be more open to this argument if lead free ammunition was either unavailable, unreliable or prohibitively expensive. But it's not. And with widespread use it will only get better and cheaper. Of the organizations listed, only 2 of them are outright 'animal rights' groups - HSUS and Fund For Animals. The rest are mainly environmental organizations. Yes, most of them are loonie-toon greenies with a definite animal rights bias but their main concern is raptors, predators, scavengers and vermin (in the case of wolves) consuming bits of lead from gut piles and carcasses. It isn't much different than the logic behind banning lead shot from waterfowl hunting. HSUS and the Fund For Animals just want to score political points and make hunters look like careless slobs who leave unrecovered, bullet riddled carcasses laying all over the countryside and don't give a damn about anything but getting that trophy rack. We're playing right into their hand on that last part. Could it be that Hornady has a vested interest and isn't above stirring up a little hype? Of course the same can be said for Barnes and the other manufacturers who make lead free ammo.. My mind is open on this subject. I'm not going to voluntarily stop shooting lead ammuntiong nor am I going to freak out over the mention of a possible ban. I'd appreciate a reasonable explination of why this is such an important issue. Is it really about the cost or is it more about the imposition of yet another governement mandate? Guilt by association? (The bunny huggers are for it so it must be bad.) What am I missing here? No longer Bigasanelk | |||
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On its own it is not a big deal because there are completely effective alternatives to lead core bullets. You could see this coming a decade ago and it is why virtually all manufacturers now have their own version of 'unleaded' bullets for hunting. It is however another example of "death by a thousand cuts". Perhaps the lead ban for birds didn't have a significant impact for some of you, depending on where you live and your interests………….. but it hammered the hell out of the number of water fowlers up here. Thousands of hunters hung up their old shotguns that would not shoot steel and quit. Those that used the first steel offerings saw nothing but wounded birds and many of them could not morally accept that and so more quit. The alternatives to steel are brutally expensive……….. you could say ridiculously expensive. It does not matter that there are improved steel loads available and of course shotguns to shoot them and gunsmiths can ream out the old full choke barrels, many have not returned to the marshes and fields. A little here and a little there………… how easily so many are lulled into complacency. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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How about the simple fact, that the few lead bullets used in hunting have zero effect on the environment and this is the USA where an individual should be able to make a choice on what they want to use without the government making a law on every turn! I am really tired of the 'nanny state' the anti's are attempting to create. | |||
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