The July/August issue of the "Rifle Shooter" has an article by Boddinginton entitled Setting The Standard. This article has words in it I never thought read from Boddington. It makes very good reading. One thing I don't understand, Boddington says the .270 Win isn't a elk cartridge, then why did he use a .270 to make a 410 yard shot on a large bull elk? This article should be required reading for anyone buying their first rifle.

Maybe he wanted to speak from first hand knowledge and not just speculate.

Methinks he has either seen or heard of the badmouthing he's gotten, not only on this site, but on others. Let's face it, some of us have really trashed him soundly, deserved ot not.
Sounds to me like a CYA situation. He even wrote nice things about the .358 Win. a while back.
Paul B.

If you want it like it is read his books.

I'm glad some people have enough hunting experience to call Craig's writing on the subject speculative.

Chuck

[ 06-24-2003, 04:18: Message edited by: Chuck Nelson ]

A few years ago, I had the pleasure of accidentally being seated next to Craig on the plane to Africa.

I must say he was a gentleman, and was just as tired and sore as the rest of us when he got there.

Craig is certainly one of the better writers.

I also agree with the previous post about his article on the 270 Win, it was very good.

I very rarely learn anything at all from Boddington's work, so I quit reading his useless blather.

BigBob,
Craig says in the caption under the picture that the 270 is not the ideal Elk gun. Farther in the artickle he states that trhe Red Stag is about the biggest game idealy suited to the 270. I enjoy his articles very much and have picked up a lot of good tips on Africa and Asia from his articles.

Hawkeye47

Hawkeye47,

Believe it or not, I also read Boddington and have a few of his books. However, I do take exception with his constant harping on the "greatness of magnums". I think this has about reached the point of deliberately misleading the nyophtes. I admit I'm a stickler for some things, shooting at an animal with a inadequate cartridge, is one of those things. If he thinks the .270 shouldn't be used for elk, ok. I may or may not agree with that. If he still uses the .270, especially for a 410 yard shot at a big bull, then, IMHO, he's a jerk. I don't know how anyone who wants the public to place a high value on what he writes, too do this. It's as if he's saying that his opinion about rifles and hunting is just so much B.S..
By doing this he places the stamp of fiction on the top of everything he writes. Boddington may be one of the nicest people alive. Hell, the world is full of nice people. I am of the opinion that anyone who still breaths, know something that he could teach me. Just as I might know something they don't. This doesn't mean I intend to take everything they say as gospel. Before I start using someones pearls of wisdom, I want to be sure they know what they are talking about. Unfortunately, Bodding seems to insist on shooting himself in the foot every once in awhile. I will continue to read Boddington, with a adequate supply of salt close at hand. Please do not take this as personal. I do not mean this in any way as an attack on anyone who likes Boddington. If we all held the same opinion, there wouldn't be horse races. Have fun.

Gents: In defense of Craig Boddington, his opinion of the 270 for elk is I think, misunderstood. What he is trying to put across is that the 270 will handily kill and elk ( he's done it) but, it is in his opinion a marginal caliber and I agree. If the 270 is your caliber of choice, fine, but just be aware that your shots will have to be more judiciously selected.

There are some guys in here that have shot Cape Buffalo with less than optimum rifles, because that's the only gun available when the animal presented itself AND they were very careful in shot placement AND are VERY experienced hunters.

I also acknowledge that he tends to err on the bigger magnum side. Before I met him, I always used to say "this guy's magnum crazy," but let's face it, a man that's been on over 25 safaris and myriad of other hunts KNOWS more than a lot of us.

As time goes by and I gain in experience, I tend to agree with him more. Although my experiences are limited, I was damn glad I had a 375 H&H with me when I shot my eland and not my 300. I made a bad shot, but thanks to that 300gr Swift, I anchored the animal long enough to quickly finish him off. Give Craig some slack guys, I can tell you this, his integrity is without question. jorge

I enjoy reading Boddington's articles and books. Though my big game hunting is limited to Deer and elk,(for now). I have learned a lot from reading his stuff. I also tend to agree, bigger is better as far as calibers go. I can make my 375 shoot like a 30 06, but it's a bit hard to do the converse. Maybe I have missed something but, I have never thought Boddington to be as egotistical as some seem to think. I think it's all in peoples' perception of what they read.

[ 06-25-2003, 20:37: Message edited by: 375hnh ]

Boy, if everybody disagrees with Craig on rifle choice, especially the magnums, there must be no Elmer Keith fans on this forum. Elmer believed the ideal big game rifle was a .338 with 250 grain bullets, and that was for antelope on up.I have to say, the more animals I see taken, the more I lean toward Elmer's side than O'Conner's and I'm a 270 fan (for deer sized game). Oh yeah, and lets not forget Charlie Askins, I used to really enjoy reading his articles.

BigBob,

I understand where you are coming from on this and I can tell you at 410 yards a 270 would not be my choice for a big elk rifle. I think that moast people don't get to spend that many days hunting and try to use a gun that covers any situation. The local person that lives in Elk country and hunts the area every year can perhaps be a bit more selective. I know that the average hunter would be better off with a non-magnum rifle that he can shoot well,but the fact is most feel they need a magnum.

jorge and 375H&H -- I agree with both your posts. By saying that I also agree with Boddington. I hunted for years with a 30-30 and .308, and was very effective with them on deer sized animals. I got an opportunity to go to Alaska and started with a .300 Win mag. On that trip I became Damn glad I took more than the .308, making a one shot kill on a 91/2 ft. Brown Bear, that experience and what followed taught me I needed even more rifle. My next trip saw me with a .340 Wby and my trip this year, in Bear country, will see me with a .358 STA. ------ Shooting the Magnums enough to become instinctive in their use and with the same effectiviness and efficiency I had with the standards is the key for me. My .340 or .358 STA rifles are awesome with what they can do with a big fast bullet. On the other hand, one of my buddies is a .270 shooter on Elk, a very efficient hunter that never shoots over 200 yards, but gets his Bull every year. He wouldn't give you a dime for anything bigger, and doesn't need it. ----- I on the other hand have taken several Bulls he would let walk. Neither of us considers our way the only way. I think this is what Boddington is saying. To each his own. Good shooting.

Phurley: Great post. Your examples of you with your 340 and your friend with the 270 says it all! jorge

I can only say the more I hunt Africa the smarter Craig gets!

[ 06-25-2003, 21:42: Message edited by: Die Ou Jagter ]

I've read a lot of Boddington's work and I think he is a pretty common sense guy and enjoy his work very much. Not only does Boddington say the .270 is not an ideal Elk/Moose round, but says the same thing about the 7mms (any 7mm, even the magnums) as well. He never said they were not acceptable for Elk, just not as good as say a .338 (or something w/ more bullet weight & frontal area) should be and that you have to think more about angling/heavy bone shots with the lighter rounds. What's wrong with that? Boddington never said not to use the .270, just that there are better tools available, if you can handle them, and are so inclined to use them.

Jack O'Connor said many times in print that the .270 (and 06 for that matter) wasn't an ideal Elk/Moose round, especially if you want to break shoulders, but that it killed as well as anything IF you put the bullet in the right place. This comment may change in light of todays super bullets, but, you basically have THE .270 champion saying the same thing Boddington does.

Regards,

Lou

As I eluded to in my previous post I find it hard to comprehend telling someone with the experience Craig has that his opinions are out to lunch.

Chuck

Jorge,

I agree with you about Craig. I had the pleasure of hunting with Craig for a few days at my hunting camp in Texas. Great guy and just another passionate hunter and I am proud to call him a friend. We all have our preferences for guns and their have been plenty of heated debates about proper calibers on this forum, I personally would not use a 270 for elk but that is my choice. I have used a 300 wby for 20 years as my main gun for most everything in NA that I have hunted. Too much gun? Maybe, but I have not had to chase anything I have shot.

Just my 2 cents.

Doug

I met Craig Boddinginton on a flight from Denver to Casper last fall while on an antelope hunt. We talked for well over an hour and it was definately one of the high lights of the trip. I have a lot of his books and enjoy his writing, as well as others. But I enjoy reading, hunting and reading about hunting. I'd be glad to share a campfire with Craig any time, as well as most of the people who post here.

Craig, like my dad, has alot of experience, and I am willing to listen

and my dad, like Craig, are frequently FULL OF PRUNES.

It's my job, and my wisdom, to sort that out.

and, for the record, the 270 is a great deer round, and with the right bullets, in teh right place, it will take an elk. Hell, 223's take caribo EVERYDAY.

But to say "the 270 is a marginal elk gun" and then shoot one at extreme range is, to me, a plate full of prunes.

jeffe

Why did he take the 410 yd shot? Because he knew he could!

A friend once killed an Iranian Red Deer at 870 paces with a 300 win mag. Not because it was the right thing to do but because it was 1979 and he knew he would NEVER be back to Iran and have another chance. Circumstances can alter cases.

Boddington was comfortable with the shot or he would have let it pass.

[ 06-28-2003, 23:13: Message edited by: Dr. Duc ]

DW: I think the caliber you shoot is the best all-around caliber EVER. period. I've known Craig for about 5 years now. We first corresponded then met at SCI and the NRA Conventions. I'm a naval officer and him being a full-blown general in the USMCR, we deployed to the same AOR this past year. He was in Kuwait and I was on board the John F. Kennedy in support of operations in Afghanistan. He is a true gentleman and I do enjoy his writings. jorge

I am gonna be a bit scurvy here-but out of curiousity do you feel C. B. would of taken a 270 on a public land hunt?

Personally I do not think so-if I got the story right-sounds kind of like they did the spotting from a porch on a cabin. Or maybe perhaps I read it wrong? That is not the type of elk hunting I've ever done. My point being seems like there was a good elk heard, and probably more than the usual chances to be sellective about the shot.
Again, I would say not your typical public land elk hunt with the rest of the world in orange out there with you. In my opinion most of the world hunts in a different world than he was doing.
Anyway what do you think?

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

[ 06-29-2003, 04:59: Message edited by: Mark R Dobrenski ]

Jorge,

I agree with your assessment of the 300 wby, I love it! BTW- If you reload let me know as I have appx 100 empty ceases I can send you, years ago I reloaded and I have never broken myself of saving the cases, I am never home to reload anymore. I will be with Craig next week while I am in CA and will tell him hello for you.

Doug

I sure wish I could afford some of those hunt Mr. Boddington goes on.and I'm envious of his Rogue River .358 man would I like to have one of those! But like many say, he has been there, and a good shot can do well with most anything. I think his experience on timber whitetail is a little thin. But he sure makes interesting reading. I also like Bruce Towsnely and Bob Robb. But I grew up on the old school guys.

Craig has a world of hunting experience and I agree the .270 isn't an ideal elk round and I have shot about 8 or 9 bulls with it...I much prefer a 338 because I don't have to turn down those bad angle shots that I do with the 270 but for a broad side shot it will work fine on elk, after all it's not but about 16"'s through an elk broadside....

I see nothing wrong with Boddingtons surmation. I hunt and shoot my deer each year with a Win. M-94 in 25-35 and its certainly not an all around deer rifle, but I can make it work...

folks that trash writters like Ross Seyfried that was a TAnzania professional hunter for 11 years and has been a elk guide for who knows how long, Craig Boddington who has hunted all over the world, are surely sticking there neck out, I wonder what there experience is? Seems to me and in fact I know these two guy have made their bones in the hunting world..If you don't like their writting style thats one thing, but you cannot question their experience unless your just a total dunce.

I went on a wild hog hunt with a guide in the Paso Robles, CA area, where Boddington lives, and envy the guide as he knows Craig on a personal basis. I am sure he garners alot of good info from him. I used to shoot a 270 for quite a few years, great caliber, but I used it on Mule Deer. I knew I could hunt elk with it, but I also realized it's limits. It doesnt mean the 270 is a bad caliber, just understand it's potential limits. One of the benefits of reloading is we get to do "alot" of shooting. Being knowledable about proper bullet use, and shot placement competency makes alot of calibers acceptable.

Has the thought ever occurred to anyone that hunters the caliber of Craig Boddington may recommend something for the average hunter and then because of his skill and experience he might use something else? I don't think this means he is making a bad or "sold out" recommendation, but one he thinks might apply to a broader group of hunters. While I have not met him in person, we email each other on a fairly regular basis and I have found him to be honest in his recommendations on guns, ammo, and anything else. He is a "man's man" and one with alot of class. Anyone can disagree with his opinions, but to criticize him in any way is really lame and can only be done by those with bigger egos than brains.

Boddington can shoot gentelmen.
He can place a bullet better than most of us could dream.

As for myself. A bigger hole is preferable.

I am going to be with Craig next week in CA and I am going to try and encourage him to come to the board and chat a bit.

Doug

[ 07-03-2003, 16:26: Message edited by: dwhunter ]

As my gun dealer said. "Don't belive every thing you read in the american gun porn."

I think this is a good advise. Some common scense and acctual experiense is needed to separate facts, fiction, commersials and personal opinion.

Thankfully there is not only one truth in the hunting world. That would be boring.

My personal preferanse is a standard caliber like 308win, lots of practise, and close range shoting, always heart and lung shots and always broadside shot on healty animals. The big game I have hunted is moose, red deer and roe.

My opinions are open to change since I'm only 20, but I belive I have some good guide rules to go after.

Johan