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I am taking my son on a Black Bear hunt later this year and while they aren't particularly hard to kill, I always like to see what others have used. | ||
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A better choice at least for a 300 is Winchester's Partition which is a Nosler bullet. You get excellent expansion and excellent penetration ! I found the other 300s too fragile for me so they lacked penetration. BTW Winchester was making a 300 gr load at 1850 100 years ago ! | |||
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Just use the one he can shoot the best. Its no big deal you could use a .223 . Feel the need for big go big. Are you going to use some corn with that water. | |||
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No corn that I know of. | |||
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Hope not, baiting is illegal in NM. Sitting a water hole might be fun though, particularly if are in an area with plentiful elk and other wildlife. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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We have a very experienced outfitter that is taking care of us... | |||
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Niether. I would use a 400 grain Barnes original. The 300 is too soft and I will not use leads except for practice. | |||
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450/400 My buddy has used one of those Sharps type 45/70 rifles to shoot black bear from bait sites. I know he uses the Winchester Factory Supreme 300 grain Partition gold I think they call it. He has shot 2 big black bears with that rifle and both one shot kills and neither bear went far at all. BigB | |||
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450/400 I have shot several black bear. The Nosler 300gr would be a good choice. If you reload, the 350gr Hornady bullet would be a great choice as well. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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450/400--Check your pm. | |||
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I have shot several Moose in Canada with my #1 and 300 gr. Remingtons.Took out both shoulders twice. | |||
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What size bear are you expecting? A 150 lb bear is one thing, a 500 lb bear is entirely another... I don't know about NM but up here in Ontario, Canada there's always the possibility of a 400 to 600 pounder. No way would I use a 300gr Rem HP. But I have great confidience in the 405gr Remington, which I've used successfully, and a hardcast of 405grs would also be perfect. I've used a 465gr hardcast from a NEF Handi-Rifle and flattened a big blackie with it. In my view, the 350 Hor. is too soft and lacks penetration if driven over about 1800 fps. I hunt bears every year and my favorite rifle is a .45-70 in one form or another, including a Ruger No.1 and a Marlin. Wish you and your son a good, safe, successful hunt. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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One of the nicer black bears I've ever seen was on a New Mexico elk hunt when I was sitting in a tree over a waterholde in early September. The blackie came in to drink around 2:30 in the afternoon, and I had him broadside at 30 yards for nearly a minute. Only two problems. #1 I didn't have a bear tag, #2 it wasn't yet bear season. | |||
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while I have only killed bears with my 300 weatherby, I feel the 300 grain nosler mentioned earlier is the best option. How far are your shots going to be? The only places I have hunted in new mexico I have hunted presented shots that could be a little long for a 45/70. That said the last bear I shot was in "open country" and I shot him at 40 yards, so over water maybe distance won't be an issue. What rifle will you be taking? Maybe you can take something more suited to a longshor if needed. | |||
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of the two choices, go with the 405. Your shot will be close. You don't need velocity you need penetration. Expansion is not even a big deal as you are starting with a 45 caliber hole. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I should have added - PMC 350 grain and Corbon DPX 300 gr which is the Barnes all copper bullet. | |||
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Thanks for all of the advice and help. I'll let you know how it goes. | |||
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For what it's worth I shot a black in Ontario some years ago with a 7 mm (7x57), 154 gr. Hornady, at about 80 yards, one shot and he collapsed on the spot. We had no scales in camp but an experienced guide estimated him at about 300 lbs. Penetration was total after busting a rib on the way out and bullet buried some inches into a sandbank. (Another testimonial for the 7 mm's great penetration!)  (Seriously, your son might like the relatively light recoil of the 7 mm (7 x 57)) | |||
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I voted for the 405 gr. as well. No black bear will go very far when hit properly with one from a .45-70. It should have more momentum than the 300 gr. to continue on it's direction of travel and ya can't sneeze at the .45 cal. hole. Just my opinion. Bear in Fairbanks Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes. I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have. Gun control means using two hands. | |||
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405 is a good way to go! I would skip the rem JSP myself, opens pretty early. I tend to like the Hornady 350 gr fp as a good way to go, back when I earned my handle and used a 450 marlin GG for everything I could think of, it was a solid performer. John | |||
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I am with the 300 grain partition crowd. I heard they may no longer be offered though (Cannot Confirm This). I use this bullet in my .45/70 contender and penetration is excellent, as is accuracy. I took a frontal shot on a water buffalo and it exited his hind quarter. He went less than 15 yards. I have had similar experience with elk and deer. It should be a great option for your bear. I hope you and your son have a great hunt! As for the Remington 300 grain I cannot say. Wade | |||
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I must apologize to the forum for my first post -which failed to address the question.(Put it down to too fast reading or perhaps a senior moment) I vote for the 405. Big slow moving bullet that makes a big hole (Reading blood trail in heavy brush, anyone?) Also I heard an interesting comment once from a Canadian guide that I came to regard as one of the best woodsmen I had ever met - He said he seemed to notice that with the 300s (in mag calibers)that a bullet seemed to zip through (if it didn't hit bone squarely) and thus were not as good as slower moving bullets. Just repeating what I heard. | |||
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Well, when it came down to it, my son chose to shoot my tried and true 8x57. I wish he would have had the confidence to use his 45-70, but then again, you can't argue with his decision.  We had a great time and truly enjoyed every moment. I have to thank Johnnie Hamilton of Eagle Outfitters for taking care of the entire family. He went above and beyond to make sure we were comfortable, well fed and had a successful hunt. | |||
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Congrats are in order for BOTH of you!  Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Nice job! The smile tells it all. | |||
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Congratulations Kent! The smile on your lad's face tells all of the story!  Perhaps this a case of whatever rifle you buy him, he'll always prefer to use dad's trusty boom-stick, you had better take good care of that old mauser mate, I think it changed ownership on that hunt.   Regards, Amir | |||
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I've used the 8x57 on two bears with complete satisfaction. Factory loads for both, either Win or Rem. We do drives, for stand hunting the 45/70 is great. I feel a little better on moving shots with something a little faster moving than the 45/70. | |||
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GOOD JOB!!! I have 2 girls, I can't wait to take them bear hunting. I have a while to go, they are only 2 and 4 years old. NRA Life DRSS Searcy 470 NE The poster formerly known as Uglystick | |||
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Mikelravy: I used a 7x57 Mauser (154 gr. Hornady)on a black at about 80 yards in Canada (Ontario, Nipissing District) that weighed out at an estimated 300 lbs. (We didn't have a scale) The bear dropped on the spot. (With the 7mm's terrific penetration, the bullet broke bone and went through to land in a mud bank. {I was on the edge of a pond} BTW, I owned a German Army issue 8mm Mauser from the Brno arsenal (straight bolt) and shot actual cartridges from it made by Germany during WW2. ( It was a "liberation" rifle brought back by a brother of mine) I always wondered why the German 8x57 was not further developed. (I was impressed with its accuracy, at least) | |||
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If you didn't know, bear makes pretty decent breakfast sausage.... | |||
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Congrats to you and your son on a successful hunt. | |||
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Great job! Congratulations of the highest order! Every bear is a trophy. That boy should be proud of his work. on your bullet choice poll, I chose the 405gr bullet. I use 350grSNRN Hornadys in my .458 Winchester (2400fps) and in my J@W Tolley double rifle (2025fps) For a jacketed bullet, it's a honey. I don't run 300gr JHP bullets in the .458 diameter. They're just too fragile for my personal taste. Cheers Tinker _________________________________ Self appointed Colonel, DRSS | |||
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