I have hunted deer many places in Southern NM over the past 20 years and recently it has been pretty bleak. I haven't hunted them in the past 2 years however.

I would appreciate any comments on the deer populations in Southern NM. Have they improved over the past two years? Where do they seem to be the strongest?

They willl get better now that it is all draw, but it takes time. Weather, POACHING and predators play a big part as well. We need some snow/rain bad. There are still some good places to go down south, but the glory days are gone somewhat.

I was bear/lion hunting in the Gila for 7 days and didn't see a single deer. This was a few months ago

I believe the "draw" system is a sham and will do nothing to help the deer herd. Here's why I say this:

In 2004 I had a conversation in the field with a NMDGF officer during a rifle hunt for deer. I asked him about the upcoming change to "draw only" slated to begin in 2005. He told me that his area had requested to have the number of draw permits available for 2005 equal the number of over-the-counter licenses sold in 2004. Now, how in the hell is that going to help? This past year I hunted the same area and there were just as many hunters if not more than under the over-the-counter system and very few bucks more than fork-horns.

I believe it's all about money and has little or nothing to do with helping the deer herd. To sum it up: too many hunters and not enough deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
I believe it's all about money and has little or nothing to do with helping the deer herd. To sum it up: too many hunters and not enough deer.

Yup, and there's absolutely no incentive in our politically based and motivated game management system to change that assessment. Every year I see fewer deer, and less deer sign. Last year the "draw" didn't net enough money because people didn't put in for these southern marginal areas. What did G&F do? Sold "leftover" tags over the counter to get hunter numbers (and income) back up to pre-draw levels. Hunting in this state is a huge scam, and will be as long big money and big landowners have their hands in the cookie jar.

Game management in NM is another name for "what do the ranchers want?" NM's deer herd has been badly mismanaged into low numbers. I've hunted SE NM since 1979. Back then the numbers of hunters and access were ridiculously high and so were the deer numbers. Now the hunter numbers are very low as are deer numbers. The elk in the units I usually hunt are doing very well and it seems to be at the expense of the muleys. The ranchers have locked up access to much of the southern Lincoln Nat'l Forest by locking up state lands that adjoin them. Now they are selling guided elk hunts for big $$. Rant complete.

Last season I hunted hard for 4 of the 5 days of the first rifle season and saw a total of 32 deer...3 bucks (all 2x3's..took the fattest one) and the rest does/fawns. I doubt if I will hunt anything other than doves and quail in this state henceforth.

I appreciate all the replies. ACRecurve, what unit did you hunt last year? I hunted the Guadalupes throughout the 90's and into the early part of this decade. When we first started there, deer nubers were awesome...now they stink.

I seems that things have improved little to not at all over the past two years. Perhaps I'll just put in for Unit 30 for the heck of it and see what happens

Andy and DesertRam, you both are right on the money about the deer, and for that matter the elk hunting in New Mexico. It seems to be completely driven by the allmighty dollar, which is a crying shame. I will point out, however, that the state's game and fish department dances to the tune established by the game and fish commission. Commission members become members by political appointment. As far as who gets what in New Mexico, and I'm talking about hunters vs the large ranches, just take a look who is on the commission, people who own fairly large ranches. As far as deer hunting, Unit 13 has some monster bucks living there, but you just don't see large numbers of mule deer. When I first arrived in the state and started writing news stories in Grants in 1998, if you drove down New Mexico 117 at night, say in June or July, you could see a few elk beside the road. At the same time you could also see just about as many elk. Over the years the numbers of mule deer seen decreased it seems in proportion to the increase in the numbers of elk seen. Unfortunately, non-residents did not pay the big dollars to hunt mule deer as they did for hunting elk. Now, all that said, the Zuni Mountains are supposed to be managed as a deer hunting area, not elk hunting area. Thanks for letting me rant and rave. Tom Purdom

quote:

Originally posted by stevie:
I appreciate all the replies. ACRecurve, what unit did you hunt last year? I hunted the Guadalupes throughout the 90's and into the early part of this decade. When we first started there, deer nubers were awesome...now they stink.

I seems that things have improved little to not at all over the past two years. Perhaps I'll just put in for Unit 30 for the heck of it and see what happens

I usually hunt Unit 34, but last year had to draw for a deer permit and drew Unit 33...hunted about five miles off the caprock out in the big Mescalero sands a bit north of the Roswell highway.

I spoke to the game warden for unit 30 this week. He said that deer numbers are still not great, but they have been improving. He also said that hunter numbers in unit 30 are about 1/3 of what they were before NM went to the draw system. I putting in there.

I work for the USBP and know just about every mountain, knob, and wash between Canutillo and Rodeo. I did good for 3 consecutive years on public land. I can attest that the deer are very, very scarce. I could not believe the poaching problems in these desolate areas, but they are surely there. I've seen an instance where some dickweed whacked 3 bucks in a night, all over 24 inches wide. What a shame. Why not stay in Texas and go the other way ??

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stevie:
....game warden for unit 30 this week....said that deer numbers are still not great, but they have been improving. He also said that hunter numbers in unit 30 are about 1/3 of what they were before NM went to the draw system...../QUOTE]

I'm not saying the warden wasn't telling the truth but I am saying I seriously doubt he's correct.

As long as we are on this topic, what about unit 17 which is the San Mateo mountains? I'm sure it is the same story as everywhere else, but it used to hold some really nice bucks. NM Game and Fish has it as a "quality area" which means that a nonresident pays about $125 more for a license.