By states and provinces by requireing guides for hunting. I know I would travel buy hunting lics, food, gas, motel rooms, in several places if guides were not required.

But by having outfitter protection laws on the books I refuse to or can not afford a full blown outfitted hunt. For something that I could do for myself.

There fore costing the areas I woudd go to money or does haveing these laws on the books more then make up for the lost money. By having to pay outfitters fees.

It has pretty much created an industry. I have seen it grow and grow, with more and more protectionism given to outfitters. Some states are a little tighter with licenses and tags set aside or given to outfitters. I don't think my state, owes them a living, and one of my sons is a full time guide. Another works part time as one.

I am not sure the states look at the dollars so much as the political pressure applied by big dollar outfitters. I have seen that trend here to. Smaller guys sell out to big outfits. Look to Canada to see how expensive it has gotten and the $$$$$ towards an industry. And not the cost of the hunt, very few get rich outfitting, but the cost of the outfitters license and hunting area.

I don't think they loose any money. Many states and even some provinces have quota systems for their permits and those quotas are usually sold out. States and provinces without quotas on permits use the "mandatory guide rules" as the a way to keep non-resident hunters in check.

Could you imagine the non-resident pressure Alaska Open Sheep units would sustain if they allowed non-guided, non-resident hunters in to hunt those areas?

I do however adamantly disagree, even hate, Wyoming's "Wilderness Rule". I ride my horses 30 miles into the Thorofare and Fish, yet I can't hunt there. But the 18 year old guide can guide me in there. A load of manure, but that is obviously off-topic......

No Wy wilderness rule is just one more exsample of requireing a guide to to something. I Have backed packed into wilderness areas of Wy.

But like you I can go spend weeks wandering around them for pleasure fishing ect but I can't carry a rifle for hunting big game in them.

This law like a lot of others isn't about personal safety. But its is about keeping outfitters and guides job safe.

I am not against outfitters and guides but it should be free choice if you use them or not.

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I do however adamantly disagree, even hate, Wyoming's "Wilderness Rule". I ride my horses 30 miles into the Thorofare and Fish, yet I can't hunt there. But the 18 year old guide can guide me in there. A load of manure, but that is obviously off-topic......

I live here, and think it is poo poo! It is disciminatory! We all know it it is set up to protect the outfitters, plain and simple. AS you said, you can backpack, fish, ride horses, swim, run naked, pick your butt, 24/7-365, but by God you can't hunt. It has been tried in court many times in my life time, all thrown out. The last I remember was a lawyer from Florida, who grew up and lived in Wyoming most of his life. He moved away, and wanted to hunt where he had hunted as a young man as a resident. But can't without a guide or resident hunter in tow!

I don't hunt with people I don't know. I've never been on a guided hunt. My #1 son used to guide for the 74 Ranch and there are a great many people who seldom hunt non-guided. I am fortunate in that I have a place to hunt and more often than not I am the "guide" who makes the coffee, cooks the meals, delivers the hunters to their stands, tracks the deer, gives gutting/skinning lessons, drives the truck, etc...

I enjoy hunting with people I know and like. I would feel very uncomfortable paying someone to do all those things for me and be pretending to like it.

I know there are some really good, personable guides in this world. They should make their living on their merit and not on a mandatory system.

Now the other side.

If I were to travel to Wyoming to hunt elk. Quite frankly I would not know the first thing about how to hunt elk, the terrain, provisions to carry, climate changes, or how to get 1000# of elk off the mountain. Also, nobody REALLY wants to take the time or effort to go roun lookin for my fat ass when I get lost! A guide would come in handy for these things. I still think they should be hired for their merit and that dunbasses who don't know any of the things mentioned and still get off neck deep in it should pick up some hard won experience getting their butts out of a crack.

Alan

Someone can correct the error of my ways, BUT..the only two STATES I know of that require guides are Wyoming for the wilderness areas and Alaska for SPECIFIC game animals. Otherwise, hunters may do a DIY in every other state as long as they have a place to hunt. Only other exceptions include most of the Indian reservations where hiring a native guide for some species in mandatory.

In contrast, I believe every Canadian province requires a guide for alien hunters -- i.e. non-Canadians. -TONY

I use to spend a lot of time on the Stillwater and East Rosebud Rivers in Montana. Always seemed strange that I was OK in Montana but couldn't find my rear end with both hands if walked over into Wyoming. The ground looked about the same to me.

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Someone can correct the error of my ways, BUT..the only two STATES I know of that require guides are Wyoming for the wilderness areas and Alaska for SPECIFIC game animals. Otherwise, hunters may do a DIY in every other state as long as they have a place to hunt. Only other exceptions include most of the Indian reservations where hiring a native guide for some species in mandatory.

In contrast, I believe every Canadian province requires a guide for alien hunters -- i.e. non-Canadians. -TONY

I may be wrong also, but I don't think there is a correction in order. I believe what you posted is exactly the way it is.

Nope, I don't think a correction is in order either, but, all the same, I'm more likely to vote for Bilillary or Obamer than I am to pay a guide to hunt in public wilderness in Wyoming--just on principle. They may not miss me but they sure as hell won't be spending my money in the off season.

I'm from Utah and a licensed outfitter in the state of Wyoming. I can also tell you honestly that I think the wilderness law is pure BS... I receive a report ever few months from the state board of outfitters and you should listen to all tattle telling between the outfitters that operate in these wilderness units. This guy did that, that guy did this, a friend said this guy was not with a guide bla, bla, bla, bla, bla. The real kicker is the state must spend thousands $$$$ to investigate each and everyone of these claims.