Hunters and anglers alone can’t keep supporting the bulk of Wyoming’s wildlife management, according to Wyoming Game and Fish Department officials.

Like many other state agencies, Game and Fish is facing a projected budget shortfall, even with recent cuts, said John Kennedy, deputy director of Game and Fish.

“We need short and long-term funding, there is no doubt about it,” Kennedy said. “Our funding challenges are intense but not insurmountable.”

Traditionally, user fees from hunters and anglers, along with federal taxes on hunting and fishing equipment, sustained Game and Fish’s management needs. Those numbers are decreasing at the same time costs are increasing.

If Game and Fish officials can’t find long-term funding from other places, they will have to start looking at cutting programs, Kennedy said.

As a result, officials are asking the public for ideas on other possible sources, both traditional and nontraditional. They are hosting a seminar Thursday in Cheyenne that will be streamed online. Anyone with a computer and access to the Internet can participate.

A recent trend

This isn’t the first time Game and Fish came up short.

Wildlife officials first went to the state Legislature in 2005 to ask for general fund money to help offset the decline of hunting and fishing licenses. The legislature gave money for specific programs that benefit the general public, such as sage grouse and wolf management, sensitive and endangered species programs and aquatic and invasive species programs.

In 2011, the Legislature gave Game and Fish $4.36 million, about 6 percent of the department’s budget.

Funding problems continued, despite the general fund boost, a 2008 increase in license fees and budget cuts. This year the Game and Fish Commission cut 8 percent from the general fund money and an additional 3 percent from the commission budget, Kennedy said.

To continue existing services beyond 2014 in the short term, Game and Fish needs an additional $8 million to $10 million that it hopes to get through fee adjustments and perhaps other sources, Kennedy said. That doesn’t address the long term.

It’s an issue many state fish and wildlife agencies are facing, Kennedy said.

Between 1996 and 2006, numbers of hunters went down 11 percent and anglers went down nearly 15 percent nationally, according to Game and Fish.

To worsen the issue, inflation continues, and the department faces increases in health care and feed costs, invasive species issues and predator management.

“You can’t fund a 21st century conservation organization on federal aid and license fees,” said Walt Gasson, director of Trout Unlimited and former executive director of the Wyoming Wildlife Federation.

“So how do you expand that both sustainably and equitably? That’s hard.”

No magic bullet

Knowing the issues it has faced, and will continue to face, Game and Fish officials are asking the public for help.

“Fish and wildlife management is critical to everybody in the state, that’s why we live here and we want to involve everyone in that,” Kennedy said. “We know we can’t do this alone.”

Some license fees will be increased. Wildlife officials told the Legislature when fees were raised in 2008, they would be back again. But Kennedy worries if licenses are raised too much, people will simply stop buying them.

Officials are working with an outside consulting firm to find creative ways to raise more money with licenses such as multi-year fishing licenses and altering license lengths.

Wildlife officials have not formally asked the Legislature for more general fund money. Gov. Matt Mead’s office is aware of the department’s budget issues, said Renny MacKay, communications director for the governor.

“It’s been the situation of the Game and Fish Department for several years, and it is a situation for wildlife agencies across the country,” MacKay said. “They are trying to adapt and efforts to adapt have been coming for quite some time.”

The situation is serious, Gasson said. And it worries him.

“I see us in a time right now when people, right, wrong or indifferent, are vigorously questioning government spending at all, in any sense,” he said.

But Game and Fish has a track record worth supporting, he said. Wyoming’s fishing is better than it was 50 years ago, the wild turkey population has blossomed and elk numbers are closer to those when Europeans came to the West, he noted.

“The big picture says that you don’t fund adequate wildlife conservation in a state like Wyoming on a narrow portfolio,” he said.

“Broadening that portfolio is difficult and nobody has found the silver bullet, but unless we are willing to say we want less wildlife conservation out there on the ground, I don’t see the alternative.”

They spent $14.5 million on a new building in Cheyenne.

There are almost 500 people on staff; last budget available shows expenditures of $65 million.

Maybe the Wyoming politicians shouldn't use the Game & Fish department as a patronage mill.

That would cut expenditures some.

George

Did you ever see the previous sham of a building those people were housed in? That new building money was asked for out of general funds and the Legislature approved it due to the need. The 2010 budget you mentioned is accurate and everything they spend is accounted for and appears necessary with all the BS they are forced to work with. Just the money spent on managing grizzlies and wolves alone due to the ESA is a tremendous amount of money they have to get from somewhere. What people would you cut out Mr Expert?

Raise lic prices make it harder to get a tag.

Yea I think I want to spend my lic dollars there.

What lot of goverment departments see is a unlimited funds just raise fees and taxes and the funds get coming in.

Then when bad times come they don't want to cut back.

Topgun you said it yourself lots of BS work thats a fine place to start. But they don't have the balls to say no to it.

I worked for a state department for decades we were top heavy with managment of course the bosses never saw it that way.

It is always easy to spend other peoples money.

I'm just curious how much Wyoming is reaping benefits of the current oil and gas boom. Some of the state around it have received pretty major financial shots in the arm from it.

Of course state governments are notorious for spending money on the wrong things so we'll see.

quote:

I worked for a state department for decades we were top heavy with managment of course the bosses never saw it that way.

I believe that is the problem at all levels of government, be it local, state, or federal. Added to this is management's need for staff support. The more staff, the more power a manager has. It is self perpetuating. If you cut the staff, fewer supervisors are needed, fewer supervisors require fewer managers. How many folks will "manage" themselves out of a job?

"Topgun you said it yourself lots of BS work thats a fine place to start. But they don't have the balls to say no to it."
***A big share of that BS work is because of the mandates of the Federal Government when frogs, buttterflies, and all the other stuff we don't hunt is put under the ESA and then the state has to manage the friggin things. Wolves and grizzlies are just the two major ones we all know about, but the actual numbers they are mandated to oversee are in the hundreds! You guys really need to look into the way Wyoming G&F runs their Department before spouting off about waste! FYI they only get 6% of their entire operating budget from the General Fund and that just happened not too long ago. 80% is from license fees, PP fees, Conservation Stamp fees, application fees and Pittman Morrison taxes they get from the Feds for hunting equipment purchased by the public. The other 14% is from various other fees like ATV permits, etc. They have very little upper management with most of the employees being at the regional and field level positions dealing directly with the public. I retired in 2002 after over 30 years with the MI Dept. of Agriculture, all at a field level position as a result of really liking it and choosing to stay right there, so I can relate to what you guys are saying, but I don't believe if you look at the WY G&F that they fall under that broad brush!

They could increase the cost of the resident license to the same price as the non-resident. That should bring in a boatload of cash. Or they could cut some of the resident tags and sell them for more money to non-residents.

I use to hunt Wyoming for years.....then the non-resident tags began going out of sight. The quality of Antelope and Mulies didn't come close to justifying the prices they were asking for the tags. They priced themselves out of the market for many hunters.

The sad part is they are cheaper than some states. Quality is down but I have too many points to back out now. Realistically it is my only shot at a Bighorn tag. I have to keep playing the game.

Rembrandt1---I guess you haven't looked at the Wyoming tags for a while because other than some of the reduced price doe tags, they sell most everything else out every year! the tags really are no more than most any other state and cheaper than at least Montana to my recollection.

I think Wyoming has 3 problems.

1. Wyoming has a small population, even though there are a lot hunters they don't have the numbers that other states have. I think neighboring Montana had 300,000 resident hunters. Heck that's only 200,000 less than Wyoming's population.

So the Gamd and Fish relies heavily on non-resident dollars to make it's daily bread. Probably on a scale no other Game department in the country does.

2. We have lost the majority of our elk and moose to this wolf problem, and elk were one of the bigger revenues for the Game and Fish. How many times will non-residents come to what were once elk infested areas to not find any elk?

3. Wyoming's close proximity to Denver and Salt Lake means that there are literally huge masses of humanity teaming with people that utilize Wyoming's resources. While some Colorado and Utah residents have always hunted and fished in Wyoming, the realization that Wyoming's elk, deer, antelope and trout are but a 2 or 3 hour drive from Salt Lake or Denver seems to have finally come to fruition. The parking lots near major fishing areas are full of UT and CO plates, not to mention TX, MI, MN, WI, NE, SD, NV, and AZ. Usually there are more non-resident plates in the boat ramp parking lot than there are Wyoming plates.

In essence Wyoming has a diminished elk resource, a fantastic fishing resource, and one of the highest quality and quanitity, and MOST AVAILABLE antelope and mule deer hunting in the country.

The game and fish of Wyoming know they can charge pretty much whatever they want, as they have just enough of a resource to make it work and enough demand to satisfy the non-resident hunting and fishing public.

You are correct in that NRs pay 60% of the 80% Wyoming G&F takes in in license fees that funds it's budget! The only thing that I might tend to disagree with on your anaysis is that I believe there are just some small areas where the elk have been hurt by wolves. I do believe that moose have been hurt the worst because of much lower overall numbers to begin with from everything I'm hearing and reading. In reality, I think the mule deer situation is the one resource that is going to cost Wyoming due to winterkill and overhunting to name a couple of many reasons for their demise. I think overall that elk are increasing their range in most of the state, as witness to so many units having a ton of cow tags to try and cut the herds back to their carrying capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by MOA TACTICAL:
In essence Wyoming has a diminished elk resource, a fantastic fishing resource, and one of the highest quality and quanitity, and MOST AVAILABLE antelope and mule deer hunting in the country.

I like hunting Wyoming. I'd rather drive 900 miles to Pinedale than drive 900 miles to Yreka.

quote:

They could increase the cost of the resident license to the same price as the non-resident. That should bring in a boatload of cash. Or they could cut some of the resident tags and sell them for more money to non-residents.

M-16 nailed it on the head. The problem is Non-Residents cannot vote and unless the State and the G&F department could sell that idea to the majority of residents so they, the PTB's would not get run out of office, any mention of putting any of the weight on the shoulders of residen\t hunters will be political suicide and both sides know it.

And that applies to all the western states. The real problems are going to occur, and I am meaning ecological problems, in the very near future as some of the species, elk particularly are at or near carrying capacity numbers over most of their range. Fewer licene sold = fewer animals taken out = equals more animals on already limited range.

I don't fault the resident hunters for wanting to be who the game in the state is managed for, I do fault them for not being concerned about the impact higher than what is practical game numbers are having on the available habitat. JMO folks.

Wyoming doesn't have the resident hunter population that other states do. As Wyoming doesn't have much of a population at all.

But the residents get to vote, and like you said that is all that matters.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Rembrandt1---I guess you haven't looked at the Wyoming tags for a while because other than some of the reduced price doe tags, they sell most everything else out every year! the tags really are no more than most any other state and cheaper than at least Montana to my recollection.

You're probably right....$300+ for deer and antelope tags? Think I'll pass, that's about 10 times higher than what resident tags are. By the time you pay the rancher and other expenses it just surpasses my threshold of what I'm willing to spend.

Let's see, do we blame it on Bush or do we blame it on wolves?
You say that the locals have a right to want the state game managed to their advantage and to get a bargain basement liscense fee. I can't dispute that but when you consider that most of the hunting in WY is on BLM land which belongs to you and I, I see no reason why the locals shouldn't pay the same price as travelers when they hunt BLM land.
Also what needs to be addressed is the way in which some local can buy (or inherit) some two by twice piece of dirt and block access to 10s of 1000s of acres of BLM land.

quote:

I see no reason why the locals shouldn't pay the same price as travelers when they hunt BLM land.

Don't even think about that because that would get the feds involved and we would be in even deeper shit than we are already!

Why do we get cut rate license fees?

Because we live here!!

I think we need to shut down all out of state hunting until after the herds recover. Especially after this year's drought. The critters are going to be hurting this winter.

As for budget shortfalls, stop all non-game species activities for 2 years, charge the feds for managing the griz and wolves and prebbles mouse and raptors...

and fire half of the administrators.

quote:

I think we need to shut down all out of state hunting until after the herds recover. Especially after this year's drought. The critters are going to be hurting this winter.

If we have just a normal winter, your right, antelope and deer will die by the droves.

What a bunch of baloney and who do you propose to foot the bill when you cheap suckers out there don't have us paying 60% of the 80% in license fees that keep the G&F afloat? Get a life and do a little investigation of facts before you spout off please! If you're so worried about the animals, why not shut down hunting to the residents also, you greedy suckers! The weather hasn't been worth a hoot out there for quite some time and unless it's a disastous winter the majority of the game will survive. I do agree that the tags should have been cut a year ago in the areas down south and to the NE where there was a big winterkill, but the G&F has done that this year with big cuts in certain units. Now if you residents would quit hunting Regions G & H to death on general tags you might find that the mulies would have a little better chance to recover down there. As long as those are kept under the general tag the deer will be hurting there as much or more from that than weather and it's not from NRs!

What a bunch of baloney and who do you propose to foot the bill when you cheap suckers out there don't have us paying 60% of the 80% in license fees that keep the G&F afloat? Get a life and do a little investigation of facts before you spout off please! If you're so worried about the animals, why not shut down hunting to the residents also, you greedy suckers! The weather hasn't been worth a hoot out there for quite some time and unless it's a disastous winter the majority of the game will survive. I do agree that the tags should have been cut a year ago in the areas down south and to the NE where there was a big winterkill, but the G&F has done that this year with big cuts in certain units. Now if you residents would quit hunting Regions G & H to death on general tags you might find that the mulies would have a little better chance to recover down there. As long as those are kept under the general tag the deer will be hurting there as much or more from that than weather and it's not from NRs. In case you'd like to learn the facts, there is a G&F meeting tonight to discuss the budget concerns, etc. and it's being live streamed on their website at 7PM Mountian Time TONIGHT!

"shut down out of staters".... boy, I'll bet that would bring howls from all the motels, cafes, gas stations, packing houses, bars and hookers that make a large percentage of their income from out of staters.

A double!!

Who says trolling isn't fun? I jest regarding cutting off OOS hunters, we know who butters our bread up here. I do think the limits set by the G&F are too liberal based on their needs for funding. It isn't pure game management.

I also am serious that our herds will be hurting if we get a normal winter, Kudu56 and I agree here. There is very little grazing left in many areas. Private lands/ creek bottoms will be overrun. You think ranchers and farmers are complaining about lack of/ price of feed now? Wait until they are beset upon by the game herds. The clamor for damage reimbursement will be deafening, but they will still want to charge trespass fees, I GARONTEE!

Good luck if you come hunting this fall.

Gary

quote:

A double!!

I don't know how that post got doubled up because it sure wasn't intentional---honest injun, LOL! I just find it hard to believe that there will be big losses in a normal winter, but you guys live out there, so I won't argue and have to eat my words if it happens. You sure hit the nail on the head with your comment on trespass fees. It's the same way if you want to shoot a hog or two where they are decimating the ground down in Texas. The answer is always for sure, but how much do you have in your wallet there Mr. Hunter! FYI I watched the G&F meeting livestream last night on the net and the fee increase they decide on won't happen until the 2014 season because of the length of time it takes to get the proposal finalized and before the Legislature for approval. That won't happen unti the Legislative session next year. I wouldn't miss hunting out in your great state no matter what they raise the fess to. I've been out almost every year since 1994 and since I retired in 2002 I'm able to spend more time when I go. This year I'll be out by 9/15 to help by buddy in Sheridan chase bulls in the rut with his bow and get some scouting done during the middle of the day. Then it will be two solid weeks, if necessary, trying to get an antelope that will break 80" before we get into the rifle deer and elk seasons. After thsoe close, I'll help my buddy the first few days of November in a LE unit he drew his deer tag for this year before heading up to ND for a week of pheasant hunting with my pointer. I'm going to be hard pressed to get back here and get the leaves taken in before heading up for our whitetail opener on 11/15, so it will be another fast and furious Fall and I'm xing the days off until I head your way! PS: We hunt the west slope of the BigHorns. Where exactly do you call home out there?

We did not have spring snow or rains in most of Wyoming so our prairie never greened up and we have very little grass this summer. A normal winter will start without the normal feed for winter ranges. This usually means a hard winter even if not exceptionally cold and snowy.

Best,

jpj3

2011 winter and spring Wyoming recieved record moisture into the summer. This winter/spring, record drought into this summer. Forage is very poor and at best nonexistent.Take a hike through the sagebrush. There was no bloom and there is nothing left of it in many places. Record temps with record drought, not good if we get a normal winter. A severe winter, worse. A mild winter, probably so-so. Meterologists are saying this summer was drier than the dust bowl years. Throw in all the fires that have burned sevral 100,000 plus acres all across the state and it could be hard on wildlife. Montana is as bad if not worse.

Funny how everyone wants more/bigger deer, elk, and antelope but don't want to pay for it. You won't question paying $100 to fill the tank in your giant diesel truck and another $50 for your $15000 side by side four wheeler, but cry when you have to pay $50 for a resident elk tag.

Fact: Hunters & angler license fees along with several exise taxes (Pittman/Robertson, Dingle/Johnson, Wallop/Breaux) make up the majority of the Wyoming G&F's budget. Despite several very small allocations from the legislature (for capitol construction, i.e. new HQ building) they are the only self sufficient state agency in Wyoming. 3% of last year's budget was from the legislature.

Fact: The number #2 industry in Wyoming is tourism. Hunting and fishing related industries contribute hundred of millions to the state's economy each and every year. Tourists come to the state each year to marvel at the scenery and amazing wildlife resource.

Fact: Half of Wyoming is privately owned. The other half is a mix of state and federal land. If anyone has actually looked at a BLM map, back in the day most of the good stuff (creek bottoms, springs, etc. that make good wildlife habitat) are privately owned amongst the mass of BLM. Most of these "new" landowners (that's kind words for out of state'ers) won't allow or severly restrict hunting on their property. Game numbers grow, less opportunity for hunters. Just look at elk numbers in SE Wyoming.

Fact: Unfortunately the G&F is required by several state and federal laws to manage and all species of wildlife found in the state. This means hunter and angler dollars are being spent on squirrels, frogs, wolves, dickey birds and other "non-hunted" critters that don't pay for themselves but require some kind of field work. Like it or not, most of these critters are on the hot sheet for many nonhunting organizations and liberal eco groups that want to list everything under the sun as "endangered".

I watched the internet meeting and think there needs to be some sort of funding mechanism that is outside the box. A state license plate featuring wildlife on it for an extra fee, a state lottery with 5% going to the game and fish, who the hell knows. Hunters need to be patting themselves on the backs for doing such a good job supporting our state widlife agencies up to this point, but at least in Wyoming every resident benefits from the wildlife here (hunters and tourists buying gas, groceries, motel rooms, etc) and should be willing to contribute to keep this self sustaining natural resource properly managed.

quote:

Funny how everyone wants more/bigger deer, elk, and antelope but don't want to pay for it. You won't question paying $100 to fill the tank in your giant diesel truck and another $50 for your $15000 side by side four wheeler,

I would bet most people are questioning the high fuel cost. All those factors come into play when decideing if one can afford a hunt.

local governments here are in deep strates as well.....The county actually asked voters to approve a 40.5 % tax increase....it was turned down 4-1!

Game and parks has increased their parks sticker from $14 to $21 in the last two years.....a 50% increase!!!

Folks....it's long past the time when government learns some frugality as the rest of us have been forced to do.

I understand that costs are increasing.....but in my life I simply don't pay them.....why can't government do the same.

The single fastest rising cost to me at this time is the cost of government.....they simply don't understand management....they only know spending it seems.

And further....locally a school of roughly 300 students in grades 7-12 was written up in the paper.....the faculty included 18 yes....eighteen coaches and coaching assistants for football, basketball, track, wrestling, cross country, golf, volleyball (both boys and girls).....and they wonder why we say no to tax increases.....

Sorry folks but the game and fish folks are part of government......and folks are fed up with it.

Good point Vapo, waste runs rampant. To much emphasis on sports and the coaches cost is just the tip of the iceberg. A little off topic, but true.

Iowa gets +\- $300. for a non- resident deer license, including doe tags. Hunters wait years to get drawn. Iowa has huge whitetails. Iowa has no wolves.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
And further....locally a school of roughly 300 students in grades 7-12 was written up in the paper.....the faculty included 18 yes....eighteen coaches and coaching assistants for football, basketball, track, wrestling, cross country, golf, volleyball (both boys and girls).....and they wonder why we say no to tax increases.....

Sorry folks but the game and fish folks are part of government......and folks are fed up with it.

I don't believe that coaches salaries are enough to make much of a difference in the overall scheme of things. IMHO the little bit they are paid is not nearly enough for the service they do in playing a big part of being there and mentoring our kids as they are growing into young adults. If you want to cut monies, look at the six figure salaries that the Superintendents are making even in the smaller school districts!

"I understand that costs are increasing.....but in my life I simply don't pay them.....why can't government do the same."

Please explain what you mean by "you simply don't pay them". Let us all in on your little secret, LOL.

quote:

I understand that costs are increasing.....but in my life I simply don't pay them.....why can't government do the same.

Government can make severe cuts in some instances, but mandated items that have legal requirements can't just go away. I guess when things get cut that you like (an no one answeres the phone to help you, or paves your road, or answers the call to fight the fire at your house, or hires teachers to teach your kid) you'll have absolutely no reason to bitch about it.

quote:

but mandated items that have legal requirements can't just go away.

They will if lower level electees force the issue and demand that those that do the mandating pay for them.....name for me one person taking that stand.

It's simply a matter of saying no.....who's in charge here anyway!

My apologies....this is a hunting forum.....lets drop the government part.....and I will as well!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:
They will if lower level electees force the issue and demand that those that do the mandating pay for them.....name for me one person taking that stand.

It's simply a matter of saying no.....who's in charge here anyway!
[QUOTE]

I think that is what the state is currently trying to do with grizzly bears and wolves. The state spends a lot of money dealing with them but has no control....that should change in Sept (at least with the wolf anyhow )

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
My apologies....this is a hunting forum.....lets drop the government part.....and I will as well!

Don't agree. Government is the problem. Management and staff of most public operations is bloated and out of control. Public salaries and benefits should be no better than the private sector average. This would allow more $$ in the private sector to support the wildlife we all enjoy.