I've never hunted anything other than deer but will (hopefully) be doing so after I'm finished with my (14+ year ) BS degree and would be interested in hearing opinions from those with field experience on this topic.

That being said......

I'm in the process of narrowing down my collection of big game rifles and am debating on whether to go with something like a 300 Mag as my only big game rifle or splitting the difference and opting for a combo the like a 257/270 and 338/375. Your thoughts???

[ 04-21-2003, 21:08: Message edited by: Nebraska ]

I've never hunted in your neck of the woods but my pick would be the 6.5x55 for everything up to elk and 338winmag for elk and above.

Bakes

My personal opinion is that a .300 mag would be the last choice. I have always had a problem with that solution. Recoil and noise is fierce, and there is little that it is really "right" for. It is totally unnecessary for deer and I have seen some problems with good hits on elk, especially up close. I really suspect their only forte is as a thin skinned long range stalking rifle.

Even though I own a bunch of rifles, I have hunted almost exclusively for the past 10 years with one gun.It's a 338 bolt, synthetic stock and Leupold 1-3/4x6. I use 210 Nosler Partitions. I've hunted everything from coyote through elk with it and it has performed flawlessly. It is actually much more comfortable to shoot than any of the several 300 magnums I have bought and sold over the years.

Keep in mind I think this rifle is ideal up through African plains size game. Any bigger or tougher is a specialised situation.

I think a great pairing would be the 338 and a 25/06, if you want to start with two rifles. I like the 280 a lot, but it doesn't provide as big a "span" as the 25/06. Before the Roberts fans start up, I own both right now, and the Roberts I own is a much nicer rifle than either of my 25/06's, but the 06 is a better cartridge. Just load starting loads, shut your eyes and you have a Roberts.

This is a subject that I have been considering for a while, since retirement one way or the other, will be in my future in the next 5 or 6 years. I would like to become more mobile and will likely sell most of my guns. The battery I am considering saving is:

Kimber HS - .22
Sako 6PPC - Varmints & Predators
280 Bolt - Small big game
338 Bolt - Medium big game
416 Taylor Bolt - Just in case
20 Ga Beretta 687SPII-30"

I've often thought that if I had started down this road with some sort of target in mind, I wouldn't need to be divesting. However, I happened to be looking through some old books from my college days and found just such a list I made then stuck in a 1968 Shooter's Bible. The list had over 30 guns on it! The thing that made me really sad was that I can't buy that same list of guns today at those prices.

Bottom line is that if you like guns enough to really worry about these things, you will end up owning a bunch more than one or two before it's over. I'm talking about divesting and I have 5 rifles sitting in my shop in various stages of build right now. Bottom line, pick the rifle that covers your needs in the immediate future, have fun and enjoy the ride.

Nebraska
IMHO if you are only going to have one rifle for all of North American game the 300 Mag is an excellent choice. I have used one a lot and it is a good caliber.... However you should have at least two rifles, in case one developes a problem, either durring the hunt or before the hunt in the final sight in check. Thus you need a little overlap in your selection, ie either rifle could do any "job" in NA.
Not knowing what rifles you have now or what you prefer I would recommend something like this.
Rifle No1 should be something in the 270WCF to 300 Mag class. Exact choice depending on the weight and recoil you wish to tolerate. This rifle is for primary use on all game under Caribou sized animals.
Rifle No2 is for primary use on Elk and up. Also a good choice for Black Bear over bait. Here something in 338 bore and up to a 375 H&H. The 338 Win is a good choice, but a 338 and a 300 win mag may be too much of an over lap, the weight and recoil is similar.
What I am trying to convey is that for deer. antelope, sheep, and goats a lighter weight "shootable" rifle is the best choice. For the big stuff I like big bullets for all angle shots, which calls for a heavier rifle.
Your recoil level and carrying ability need to be considered.
If Africa is in your future your big rifle might want to be a 375 H&H.
My favorite set of bolt rifle calibers are as follows.
A 308 WCF is my practice, general purpose "back yard" deer and pig rifle.

When I go "out of town" I have used the 300 magnum, always with handloads and 180 Nosler Partition bullets. This combo will work from long range antelope [I have killed more antelope with the 308WCF however than all other calibers combined ], to close range bear.

For the big and dangerous stuff I have a 375H&H. No need for any comment here, the 375 is well known.
I have used many different brands of the above rifles over the years with good service. Currently I am experimenting with the Blaser R93 in the above calibers [and 223], and so far like it very well.
The above data has worked well for me untill a little over 4 years ago when I "discovered" double rifles, so now things have changed in a major way.... But the above data is still correct.

As long as your cartridge choices are similar, and you use the proper bullets you should have no problems.
After all shooting what you like is half the fun. And the quest for the "perfect" hunting rifle is an enjoyable journey.

With a few exceptions, I hunted with 300 Winchester magnum starting in 1965. I hand load and have found that loading light charges makes for considerably less recoil and very accurate bullet delivery. Last year I got out of the the 300 win mag and into a 300 WSM. I like the short action rifle. I had both the long action and short action and the feel and carry on the short was obvious. At least to me. The 300 WSM loaded light with slow powder is a darn accurate round. This coming season, I am going to a 270 WSM. I'm still thinking about which load to use.

Go to a dealer and handle the short action and the regular action.

While I have used a 300 win mag and now the 300 WSM, I see nothing wrong with a 30 06 or a 270 on everything you can possible hunt here in the lower states. I started hunting with a 30 06 at age 16. I got into the 300 becasue that's what the dealer had on hand when I went to buy a new rifle. Had that not been the case, I would probably continued on with a 30 06. Several of my elk hunting buddies hunt with 30 06, and one with a 308. The elk and deer I've killed with my 300 win mag are no deader than what they killed with their 30 06. I can't tell a single story gathered since we started elk hunting together in either 1979 or 1980 where my 300 outperformed the 30 06 or the 30 06 didn't do the job. We lost one elk during that time hit with an 06, and that elk was hit low down in the rear leg leaving it dangling.

Bigger it not better. I've lived with the 300 win mag this long beccaue I've always fired mild loads in it. I took the loads up to max, but didn't like the recoil.

I own several rifles for big game hunitng & there is quite a bit of overlap in them. I am not a .30 fan, but if I only had (1) rifle for NA game then it would probably be a good .30-06 bolt action. If I were looking for a (2) rifle big game battery for NA big game, then I would go .280 & .338 (ok you can go .270 if you don't handload ). The .270/.280 are just about perfect for deer, antelope, sheep size game & for elk & moose & bear, the .338 is all the gas you need. Now if you are talking world hunting, then that's another discussion.

[ 04-21-2003, 22:56: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

Nebraska, in a lot of ways, caliber selection for general hunting is a akin to a "tidal wave in a tin cup"; in other words, more sound than substance and a greatly overrated consideration - all out of proportion to its importance. I always think of Jim Carmichel's words on this topic: "There's no shortage of all-purpose rifles - where are the all-purpose hunters?" Read Jim's comment again, because each one of his words weighs a pound or more......

I personally know guys who have literally hunted the world with the .30-06, plus others who have done so with the 7mm Remington Magnum, or the .300 Winchester, or the .300 Weatherby, or .300 H&H, or the .338 Winchester, or the .375 H&H. Most of these guys are good to excellent shots, and all most all of them report the same sort of results no matter what cartridge they use and no matter how big the game gets short of cape buff' and a few other thick-skinned critters.

For my own use, I like the .300 Winchester and the .338 Winchester cartridges for general hunting, and I'd just as soon hunt with one as the other. I've used the .300 on everything from the tiniest African antelope to three of the "Big-Five", plus all NA deer, elk, moose, bears, pronghorn, etc., and at ranges from point-blank to over 500 witnessed yards. It's never let me down on over 100 big game animals, and if I only owned a single rifle in .300 Winchester for my hunting, I wouldn't cry about it one little bit....

I know too many guys who are more of less equipment collectors. They never seem to have enough money to hunt on, but they always seem to have enough money for another rifle to add to their collection of seldom-used hardware.

My advice: Buy one good, top-quality rifle chambered for a good general-use cartridge, stick with it, don't look back, and then go hunting.

AD

[ 04-22-2003, 02:32: Message edited by: allen day ]

Well, that is an interesting question and you have some fine responses here. I guess I will throw in my two cents worth.

For a one gun hunter, a guy could look a long time to find something more suitable than any of the 300 magnums. They hit hard, shoot flat, and yeah they kick a little, but you are not shooting prairie dogs with them.

For me, however, I feel a need for more than one big game rifle. I might run off up to the local mountains on a deer hunt for a few days and only take one rifle, but I NEVER go on an out of state hunt with just one gun. I have been lucky enough to never need it, but I WANT a backup rifle in case I fall or a horse rolls over my rifle, etc.

I would recommend finding a brand and model of rifle and scope that you like and getting a couple rifles as close to the same as you can.
You do not want to be wondering where the safety is on the one in your hand, etc. when the time comes to shoot. You don't want them to fit differently, either.

I have built my big game rifle battery around the Remington 700 Classic series. They are all the same model, all wear Leupold scopes, all have the same slings, all have the triggers adjusted to two pounds by the same gunsmith, etc.

In fact, I have even developed hand loads for two of them that share the same trajectories. I have a 7mm WBY Mag and a 300 WBY Mag that shoot very much the same. I use Nosler Partitions in both, by using the 160 in the 7mm and the 180 in the 300, if I shoot them the same speed the trajectories are identical. Not a bad deal.

Anyway, two guns are always more fun than one.

R F

Why hasn't someone suggested the 30-06??? Of all the calibres suggested above, and there were some good ones, one has to wonder how many of them will be around 100 years from now. And how many will have the devoted following that the 06 enjoys. The 30-06 loaded with a 200 grain grand slam or partition is some serious elk medicine.

I rarely hunt with a 30-06 any more. Too many new girls on the line that need checking out. BUT, if we got into the old bullshit, hot-stove debate of "if you could only have etc etc" and we were discussing new world game, the 30-06 would be one of the first to come to my mind.

Very interesting responses so far!

Allen.....great quote. We can always count on you for great content and delivery!! How was your trip to Africa (Tanzania?) by the way???

Hey Beeman, read my post.

I usually stay out of these type questions, but what-the-hey.

Fredj338 has it about nailed. Fine choices, nice combination, sound advice. My only difference would be a 7mm-08 for the light gun, just cause I like short actions, and love that round. Not much different from Fred's 280 anyway.

If you go with only one, as boring as it sounds, it's hard to beat the old 30-06.

I've got a BLR in 300 WinMag and I think you could make that work for just about everything in NA, maybe even for the big bears, certainly for everything else. I prefer to have one load for each gun however so have different rifles for different purposes. I shoot 165 gr. loads in the 300, it's really for when I'm hunting at longer ranges. If you're willing to shoot different loads you could also find a good 180 or 200 gr. load and have a real one gun battery.

However I love my 338 WinMag and couldn't see going without it for Elk and larger game.

I also love my 275 Rigby (not blooded yet), my 308 Ruger International carbine, my BAR's in 270 and '06, etc., etc..

I should have also mentioned you always need two anyway, you should always take a backup. Three years ago I had a scope mount crack on a hunt when I had only carried one rifle, it didn't have iron sights and I was screwed for the weekend.

Now I always carry a backup, plus a spare for the backup. I'm not being neurotic, just really really really carefull.

I agree with fred338. A .30-06 is an excellent choice for a "one gun hunter" in the lower-48.

I am a "one gun hunter" and use a .338WM. A good 2-rifle combination that I like is as follows: .270 .338WM.

A 3-rifle combinations:

a. 22LR, .270, .338WM
b. .270, .338WM, .416 (any of the 416's)

Why be a one gun hunter if you have the option (the means) for two? Granted the one gun hunter is likley to become very adept with his popper, but probably quite bored as well.

A good friend of mine has two 308's, one scoped and one open sighted. Latley he hasnt used the open sights much due to a broken part.
I like the 270 and 338 combo, two of the greatest ever complimenting each other, it doesnt get any better than that. I myself will be combining some of my big game firepower with varminting from a 257 AI. Havent really settled on a larger caliber though, too many that are too sweet, but Ive recently been giving some thought to how a WSM might work in a VZ24 or an M48...

There "are" a lot of multi purpose calibers, Ive known many hunters who never NEEDED any more than one, but it is much funner with a variety. Perhaps one flat shooting loudenboomer and one big bore or classic just for shits-n-giggles.. I think every serious hunter should have at least one rifle that serves for pure pleasure as good as, or better than any other purpose. Actually I probably own more of them than utilitarian rifles.

Two guns...

A 308 Win from Varmints to Deer and Elk in a Pinch

A 375 HH for everything else

For hunting in the CONUS and ignoring the big bears, one of the many 300 Magnums.....load it down a little or full-power and youo cover the whole spectrum....150gr to 200gr bullets....

If you hunt more elk than deer then I would say a 338.

A nice smaller rifle would be nice...I like the 25-calibers.

If Africa is in your future....think adding a 375 to the 300 Mag and forget about the 257.

Nebraska,

You have opened a real can with this one. I don't think there is a bad caliber out there in a centerfire that moves a bullet of about 120 grains, or heavier, at a velocity of 2800 fps to 3000 fps and of .257 diameter or larger. Some may be a little on the light side, while others are akin too swatting flys with a sledgehammer. They will, however, all do the job. I've hunted with a large number of different cartridges over the years, and must says that my opinion is based on what these cartridges have done to me and for me. I disagree with some of the suggestions given so far. I do not think a belted magnum cartridge is really necessary for CONUS. The only one I'd even consider is the 7mm Rem Mag. Any cartridge that offers the trajectory simular to the .30-06 and delivers 1500 ft. ibs. of energy at the range you shoot at is fine. One thing I've always thought that was overlooked by many hunters, is matching the bullet to the game being hunted and will function as required. Coupled with learning how a cartridge performs is a lot more important to me than how much powder a case can hold.

I happen too think the .30-06 is very hard to beat for the one rifle hunter. This is just MHO and bias. Good luck.

[ 04-22-2003, 11:18: Message edited by: BigBob ]

I don't think it's a dumb idea at all to own two identical rifles of the same chambering. If there's a mishap right before a hunt, you always have another familiar rifle to fall back on. I remember a fellow at our gun club who dropped his rifle and broke the scope right before elk season one year, and he was scrambling to get another scope installed and sighted-in before he left for his hunt.

I think familiarity is a real key to success, no matter what cartridge you decide to go with. If you learn one rifle, one scope, and one cartridge and get that system down cold, you'll be way ahead of the game......

AD

I don't understand why anyone would want to eliminate the big bears from the list of game the .300 Winchester is suitable for, it is the caliber I grab the most. Nosler Partitions at 3000fps, or TBBC at 2950fps will tackle any bear at any suitable range. I carry a Marlin Guide Gun when standing in the salmon streams, just because it is more convenient. I sold my .338 because all it was doing was collecting dust. I want a .416 rifle to complete my world wide capabilities, namely if by chance I got to hunt the Dark continent. A .338 I do like is the .338 Lapua Magnum.

Personally I like a 30-06 for deer and a 9.3 x 62 for the bigger stuff. Or a 338 or 375 for bigger stuff. The advantage of using a 30-06 for the smaller caliber is that in a pinch with 200 or 220 grain bullets it will suffice for elk and moose, while a 270 or 243 would really be too small. The 9.3 x 62 does not kick, but it gives you almost the same power as a 375 H&H.

7mm rem mag! 21 elk, 1 grizz, 2 caribou,2 black bear, 30+ deer and about as many antelope, 15 species of african game including leopard,2 moose, 1 sheep, 2 goats, and hundreds of milk jugs. Same load on all shots. 162 gr. hornady spbt. It's actually a personal choice!

Since I shoot mostly for Deer/Caribou and lighter game, a .270-class cartridge and a good .22LR would suit my needs just fine. It'll do everything shy of Moose and Elk (even then a strong case can be made for the .270), and for that I'd pick a .338-06, .35 Whelen, or 9.3x62. Throw in a 12ga. and I'm ready to face all of North America.

The breakdown is prety simple, a standard rifle in .270 is easy to find, easy to maintain, easy to load for, and are generally very accurate, even with factory loads. It'll take most anything I'll ever hunt out to distances at the practical limit of my shooting confidence (300-350yds.) and within it's bullet selection, I have the 130gr. Ballistic Tip for hunting deer/'bou at long range from a stand, and the 150gr. Partition that drops blackies like a bad habit.

A larger caliber rifle (greater than .30 in this case) with the same or greater case capacity than a .270 would do for Elk and Moose if needed, and Griz in the unlikely event that I would ever shell out the $ to go out of province for big game hunting. Any '06-based or "magnum" capacity round would be able to serve well here.

And like I said, add a "medium"-sized 12ga. for fowl and upland birds and a .22LR for the small stuff and the pure enjoyment of shooting, and you're set.

[ 04-23-2003, 02:59: Message edited by: Mikey B ]

.270 and .338.

Or just a .300 Mag of some sort (.300 H&H being my choice)

If just one rifle for North America, easily the 30-06. If two, a 30-06 and a 223 or 6mm.

I am in the camp of A Day's on this one, the 300 is awfully tough to beat. I also would without a doubt find a way to have a backup.

Some would like for us to believe that the 300's are caustic to shoot-I for one do not agree at all with that. I've shot out several tubes now on big game targets and lots of long range chucks and yotes. They will bounce you around a bit but I do not think that they are too much for the general populace to handle. If people do find them too much to handle then I would suggest one of several things are going on.

#1-the guns are not put together very well

#2-the shooter hasn't invested much time with it

#3-the shooter has a tough time in dealing with recoil-it happens but I don't think that a properly built 300 will bother most.

About the bullets performance I've not found any issues be they long shots or close-big sized game or smaller game the 300's handle them just fine.

Just my thoughts

Personally I think there are a ton of ways to skin this cat-here's my choice a 06 Improved, ok ok that is what I call my beloved 270 and then the 300 Win or Wby. I am close to that now except my favoite mag is now chambered for the 7 Mashburn Super.

Enough of this "GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

For North America, a .243 or 6mm Remington and a .338. Same for the world, unless you include the big 5, then a .243 or 6mm Remington and a .375 H&H.

Though I agree 100% with the notion that a hunter with one rifle will become ultra familiar and effecient with that rifle I do have a question. What does one do if that one rifle breaks while on a hunt? Opinions/thoughts?

I'm wanting to stay relatively minimal when it comes to the gear I accrue as that money, IMO, would be better spent for more tags. What I'm contemplating is to build/buy 3 rifles which overlap niches, so as to always have a backup in case one breaks. Here's what I'm thinking:
Gun #1: 6X45 or 6-250 for varmints and would work for deer at appropriate ranges.
Gun #2: Something from a 6.5 to 7mm on either the -08 or 284 Win case. It would cover deer sized game and even elk with the appropriate bullets. This one's to be relatively light for the sheep/goat hunts we all dream about.
Gun #3: .338 Win Mag (what I now have) for elk, big toothy thngs and more than enough for smaller big game.

If I hunt more than a couple hours drive from home, I always take (2) rifles. That's why my big game rigs have a bit of overlap. In a pinch I can hunt elk w/ my .280 or antelope w/ my .338-06.

My vote would be the two gun option. A 270 and a 338. I just can't live with just one gun.

narrow my as#!!!!!! two guns!!!! why , your closet getting smaller?......so what a gun sits in the corner until it is willed away...I will never sell a gun unless I become destitute or in fear of losing my home for some reason.....6 rifles 12 rifles...sometimes you want it to be a tougher hunt and you opt for a single shot....sometimes you just want to kill the prey and not your shoulder...sometimes you have to kill BOTH......I cant see shooting varmits with anything bigger than a 25-06!!!!!! much less a 300 win mag ha ha ha...cant have enough they are smaller than furniture and seldom lose any value.............bob

I packed only a .300 Win mag for years, if I had to pick only one, that would probably be it. I killed Brown Bear, 14 Caribou, many Deer and Elk with it. I would prefer to not be limited to one rifle. If I were, I would pick my .257 Wby and my .358 STA, for my two gun battery. The .257 would take care of everything up to Caribou, the STA would do the rest including Africa, where legal. A 270 North Fork or 280 grain Swift A-Frame at 2900 fps plus giving the later lots of wallop. Good shooting.

[ 04-25-2003, 05:55: Message edited by: phurley ]

Nebraska, I think you answered your own question at the end of your initial post. A great two gun battery for NA big game would be the 270/338 combo you mentioned. You'll be ready for everything from antelope to brown bear. Hell, with cheap Walmart ammo you could even varmit with the 270. You're even covered for an African plains game hunt too.

I like the 7mm rem mag, I can shoot loads down to a 110 gr. for stuff like coyotes and go up to a 175 gr. for bigger game it is a good caliber. I normally shoot a 140 gr. for deer/antelope. But why only own 1 or 2 guns, I love guns and usually will try to use any excuse to get a new one.

I have used the 7mmrem mag and 7mmstw as a do everything cartridge but I now use the 7mmstw for deer,sheep and pronghorn and the 300ultramag for moose,elk and bear.

Go with a .30-06, 8x57 or .338-06 and use it for whatever Northamerican game you want!

The main issue is to hit the proper spot, not to use the proper cartridge!

Fritz

classic option: 30-06 & 375 H&H

continental option: 7 X 57 & 9.3 X 62

old school option: 30-30 & 45-70

old Africa option: 300 H&H & 416 rigby

Weatherby option: 270 Wby & 378 Wby

Winchester option: 270 Win & 338 Win

Remmington option: 7mm-08 Rem & 300 Rem ultra

Is there a theme here?
They all will work, go with whatever lights your fire.