I was reading a nice Big Game Hunters' Field Guide I received from a hunting consultant (booking agent). The section Trophy Quality Expectations caught my eye.

It says, "don't tell your guide that you won't settle for anything less than a 180-class mule deer, and then shoot a 2 1/2-year-old 4-point on the last day of the hunt. And PLEASE don't be the kind of hunter that starts the hunt with some kind of a minimum trophy quality and then keeps reducing it as the days go by. Again, either set a realistic standard from the beginning and stick to it or be prepared to go home without an animal".

I must be their worst nightmare. It sounds like the booking agent is telling me to make it easy on his outfitter/guide so we can wrap up my 10 day hunt in about 36 hours then lay around camp the last eight and a half days; or simply break camp and go home.

(Used car salesmen would love to use that tactic. "You want a 2001 Chevy?, here's one, sign here and give me your money, don't make me show you any more.")

On my last trophy elk hunt I was hunting for a nice 6X6. I passed on a number of good 5X6s, then shot the 6X6 I wanted on Day 3 of a five day hunt.

Sure it can work against you. Last year I passed on a 60" kudu in Natal. We spotted the big bull about two hours after sun-up on the first day of a five-day hunt. We watched him for a good while. He was in a tough place to stalk. I was confident this wasn't my one-and-only opportunity. A couple of days later I shot a heavy 56" bull. I had no regrets, why should anyone else.

When I pay top dollar for a trophy hunt I expect everyone to be ready to give me ten days of effort on a ten day hunt, if that's what it takes to get the trophy I want. I can also guarantee you that as the days go by I'm going to re-evaluate the trophy quality I'm willing to accept.

If I end up killing a ram with one 3/4 curl horn on the last day of the hunt, so be it. I'll be proud of the achievement, and no one else has earned any bitching rights.

Am I being unreasonable?

Ken,

Hunting is a personal experience so I think you are right on with your concern. I know I compete against no one but my own standards for what I deem a trophy animal. I both trophy hunt and meat hunt for my freezer. I passed on MANY deer for years holding out for something better than what I was seeing. To this day I will still pass on spike and forkie whitetail bucks. I know the clown on the next property will probably shoot them but bucks are trophies to me.

We all like to get a big one for a little bragging rights and admiration from our friends. I cannot bring myself to do that with a spike buck yet I see people do that year after year! I would rather shoot a crafty doe and show her off. But that is just me.

Most of the time an animal I take is the result of a great hunt. I go out every day with no expectations. I pass on the ones I don't deem a trophy in my eyes and still call it a great hunt. On a guided hunt I just want to be taken where I have a fair chance at actually seeing the game in good numbers and having a selection of animals seen each day I hunt. Which one I choose to shoot is going to be my decision and not any guide's decision because he is tired or got other things to do.

I tend to think that when we do go on guided hunts (PAID) that we want to get our money's worth. There is nothing wrong with that. We expect the outfitter/guide to show us the best he/she's got. Why you received something like that from that agent is beyond me. Looks like another too-big-for-their-britches type to me.

I like ketchup, I like steak. I like ketchup on my steak no matter the cut nor the price. If I am paying for it I should be able to eat it any damn way I want.
I figure it is the same when I hunt. My hunt and I will shoot what ever I can afford and blows my skirt up.
I think you are correct in your assumptions.

Harry's right....whatever blows your skirt up works for you...but...I've found that if you want to shoot big ones you can't shoot small ones and the main reason I hunt is not always to shoot an animal ...but "to hunt" and that "special" animal is my reward.

Probably the most suprised guide I ever saw was the one I gave a tip he didn't expect as I hever fired a shot on our 10-day trip...saw a lot of beautiful country, looked over a lot of nice animals that were certainly "shooters" but I was looking for that "special" animal that we never found.....hunted hard in good country, game in good quantity and quality, great equipment, good companionship and even the weather was good.....came back refreshed and with a smile on my face. It was a successful trip.

Kensco,
I earn part of my living, guiding big game hunters. I think this "Big Game Hunters Field Guide" is a crock of horse shit!
You aren't missing anything. You are not being unreasonable.
Are they telling you that you can't change your mind or have a change of heart?
This is all assuming the Outfitter is telling the truth about the quality of the game in his area. In large, what an outfitter tells you about his area will have a big influence on the hunters expectations. What about weather? or other factors that we can not control that can influence a hunters decisions.
I was guiing this hunter on a 12 day Dall sheep hunt. He wanted a big ram.(everyone does) We hunted hard for 6 days and saw rams but no big ones. I could tell the hunter was getting discouraged so I kept prodding him on. On the 7th day he did not want to hunt. I told him I would climb and look for a big ram and if I locate one I would signal for him, so he could rest. On day 8 I wanted to do the same. The guy says to me "Look here now! I paid for this hunt and I wan't to go back to Basecamp" He said that he appreciated my effort and that getting a big ram was not all that important to him anymore. The hunt was more difficult than he expected. We packed up and went back to base camp.
On anouther hunt, I was foaming at the lips over this big carubou that I spotted. I said to my hunter, "Look at that other old bull past his prime with that big bull" The hunter turns to me and says " I wan't the old bull with the short beams and no points." I did try to talk him out of it but we killed the old bull.
My point of all this is, yes we are after trophies but there are alot of other factors than can play on a hunt AND there is more to a hunt than just the trophies.
I have had hunters set on the idea of a 60" bull moose or nothing. Then decide to take a 55" bull because the bull gave us a run for our money. The bull held a special place in the hunter's memory for the challenge that he offered.


On the other hand, Outfitters wan't thier customers taking trophy class animals for advertising. With higher percentages of trophy animals, it is easier to sell hunts. I recall that the outfitter was pissed off at me for letting my hunter shoot that old bull, that reffered to earlier.

Bottom line it is the hunters money and if he ain't braking any game laws or company standards that were put on the table before the hunt and wants to shoot a booboo. That is his choice.

Daryl

Dooughbt!! I hit the reply button twice

[ 03-08-2003, 21:17: Message edited by: Yukoner ]

It is your choice...when I hunt I hunt for the bull of the woods, on the last day I will shoot a spike to eat...I want the biggest or the best eating.

If you pay the choice is always yours. end of story.

I've got no agrument with a guy that tries to hunt the big ones and settles for a smaller, younger animal.
But, I also understand that if you keep shooting the little ones, you will never kill a big one. Settling on the smaller one somewhere in the hunt means your hunting is over. And the one you took will never grow up.
But, I also note, that the management goals of the area are set by the governing bodys to determine whether the population will be managed for quality heads, or maximum harvest. If you get a permit in a throphy area, you have a chance. If you get a permit in a maximum harvest area, odds are getting a true throphy would be a real long shot.
So, if you get a chance to hunt a throphy area, it's your call. E

Yukoner is spot on! Sometimes priorities change and lots of things can impact one's desire to take a particular animal. Similar to the gentleman in Yukoner's story, I like to take older animals. I would have been tempted to take that old bou just like his client. I can also appreciate an animal that gives me a run for my money. It was all I could do NOT to take a female mountain lion this winter after she ran us up and down about 15 miles of mountainous country in Southern Utah. We finally treed her up just before dark and found that she was, in fact, a female. Coulda legally taken her but passed. Man, I still feel a connection to that cat.

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

Guys,

This past season, I know of a registered guide, that put a green east coast assistant with a sheep hunter, and left them to fend for themselves. A couple of days later, the RG checked on them and was told that the Assistant had found(read miracle)"a shooter" but the hunter didn't think it was legal and didn't shoot. The RG's attitude was if he didn't shoot that one, I don't care if he shoots one at all. Another RG went up there with three days left and got the hunter a fine ram on the last day. A hunt should be what you want it to be
and only you should decide. They're not paying YOU to hunt with them.

Joe

Unreasonable?? When I hunt on public grounds I hunt any way I damn well please. I would hope that if I were shelling out a tidy sum for hunting that I would have the same freedom to shoot or not shoot whatever animal suits me along with a few extra concessions. If it were my hunt Id tell that guy to take his "Field guide" and go piss up a rope..

I hunt for the biggest and the last day will take a meat animal if presented the opportunity. I've taken a lot of trophy bulls and bucks, and most have come early in the hunt, usually 3 days or less. I hunted for one particular whitetail buck for 3 years before finally connectin, and when I did he was in decline; he's still my favorite trophy deer. This past year I bow hunted for one particular buck for 23 days, and he's still out there.

On a paid, fair chase big game hunt, you are paying for a "hunt" not an animal.

If they sold you a ten day hunt, they need to be prepared to hunt hard for all ten days. Any shooting decisions are the clients.

If a client of ours pays for 10 days, we're going to give him 10 days of our best effort. If he shoots everything he wants in 3 days, we're still going to give him 7 more days of our best effort doing what he wants. If a client changes his trophy expectations during the hunt, we will change our hunting methods, if it is so required.

When a client pays his (or her) money, they deserve to get what they pay for, or more, end of story. We have a wide range of clients, some who want a "representative trophy", and some that won't shoot unless the kudu is 60" or a gemsbok bull is 40". We do our best, one way or another. I guess I just get a little worked up over the "too big for their britches" types.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

In my younger - single days, I was a fanatical trophy Mule Deer hunter. I would start scouting in early July in three states, and would not stop hunting until the season ended, usually the end of December. I would see several huge Deer every year, usually in the upper 30 inch range, at least one well over 40. I don't remember how many times I passed on a huge buck, knowing that I would probably never get another opportunity at a buck that big. My tags usually went unfilled.
I was asked to be a guide during that time, but I turned it down for this very reason. If I busted my butt trying to get a client a trophy of a lifetime, and he/she blew the shot, or shot a non-trophy buck at the bottom of "Welcome to Hell" canyon, it would have pissed me off so bad, I might have left them there. I know of more than one guide who quit the business because they couldn't put up with the whining and whims of their clients.
Granted, the client pays the fees and deserves the final say, but I would have rather worked for free for a hunter who demanded the best and was willing to work for it, rather than one whose standards changed through out the hunt.

Rule number 1, "the customer is always right"

Rule number 2, "when in doubt, refer to rule number 1"