This hunt was won by Andrew Krupka of Houston, Texas and this is a post he made on another forum. I was wondering what others here think of this?
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I made a complaint to TPW regarding the dates that Mike Pittman chose on my bighorn sheep hunt. I originally posted about the hunt and received a lot of negative email and asked the mods to pull the thread. I am posting this thread for those that are interested in how TPW handled the letter that I sent them. I have since been contacted by Clay Brewer the interim director of wildlife for tpw. We had a lengthy phone conversation regarding the hunt. I told him that Mike Pittman told me over the phone that he would not have hunted the dates that he chose for me. Clay was quiet for a couple of second and said "he told you that?". I then said whats up with the roads being closed for 5 months prior to my hunt and he said "yeah I think that's not that great for your hunt". I then asked him to reschedule the hunt and was told no way, its not going to happen. I then received a letter that basically said that they could not redo the hunt because it would not be fair to the other hunter drawn in the public hunting system. The last paragraph of the letter said that they hope I continue to enter the public hunt drawings. I don't want to pursue getting the hunt redone at this point. I feel it would be detrimental to the sheep restoration program and the possibility of a future draw hunter to hunt one (albeit under less than ideal conditions). Here is a copy of the letter that I sent to TPW:

February 23, 2009
Linda Campbell,
4200 Smith School Road
Austin TX 78744

CC: Carter Smith, Clay Brewer, Calvin Richardson
Dear Sir or Madam:
My name is Andrew Krupka. I was drawn on a public hunt for desert bighorn sheep. I am a life long hunter and avid outdoorsman, and when I found out I was drawn on this hunt I was speechless. I have been entering the public hunt drawing for a very long time and I understand how lucky I was to be drawn on this dream hunt.
I contacted TPW shortly after receiving notice and was referred to Mike Pittman who I subsequently contacted and had multiple email conversations and phone calls regarding getting prepared for my hunt. I was told to get in shape and start hiking with a pack and get accurate with my rifle, which I diligently undertook. I told Mike Pittman that I owned my own business and could go on the hunt at any time and that I wanted to hunt sheep during a time period that afforded me the best opportunity to harvest a mature animal. He told me that we would be hunting in late January or early February.
About a week before the hunt Mike Pittman called me and told me that they had been glassing for sheep for several days with zero success, due to road conditions from a recent flood. He informed me that the hunt was still on scheduled.
Upon arrival our optimism was very high and we had assumed that TPW had stepped up to the plate as vigorously as we had in our preparations for this hunt of a lifetime. As the hunt progressed without even seeing a mature animal we started to realize that something was not quite right. There were several biologist looking for a harvestable ram for 10 days without seeing anything. During the 5 day period of the hunt we discussed the hunt with TPW biologists that were helping me in my quest to harvest a ram. I was told a number a of different things that have lead me to believe I received the short end of the stick regarding optimum dates to hunt sheep that would afford me the highest possibility of success. Here is what I was told by the TPW biologists on the hunt:

·“Well we normally hunt during the rut and its a lot easier to locate the rams because you can hear them butting heads and it resonates through the canyons”

·“Mike was experimenting with these hunt dates. We are learning a lot from the mistakes that we made on this hunt. I guess you did not want to hear that”

·“We never hunt sheep during the public draw hunts this time of year. I have no idea what Mike Pittman was thinking”

·“You are the only hunter never to see a mature ram or harvest one”

·“You are by far the most physical hunter we have ever had on a sheep hunt. Most people don’t want to put the work in and want us to find the sheep for them. We have never had a hunter climb as much as you have”

·“I don’t know why Mike Pittman picked these dates because its lambing season and the ewes run the rams off during this time of the year. They normally disperse and then come back together during the rutting period which is in June, July and August”

·“Its winter time and I am pretty sure that the rams have left black gap and are probably wintering in bear canyon on the Reagan ranch”

You can understand that after hearing all of this by day three of my hunt I was somewhat concerned. I can only speculate on Mike Pittman’s reasoning behind choosing these dates but he told me, in our February 10th phone conversation, that he thought it was too hot to hunt during the rutting period which occurs over the summer. I have recently become aware that the other hunter drawn on the bighorn sheep permit will be hunting during this time period. I was never offered any hunt dates that coincided with the rutting period as I was relying upon Mike Pittman’s expertise to pick dates that maximized my opportunity. The only reason that I can come up with as to why he choose these dates was to afford himself the comfort of hunting during cooler temperatures regardless of its impact upon my success.
I understand that no hunt is a guaranteed. I hunt public land in Texas, and have come home many times empty handed; but I do schedule my hunts during times of the year that would afford me the greatest possibility of success. You need to remember that we are not talking about a whitetail hunt or a waterfowl hunt. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity and its important that both sides of the hunting party, hunter and guide, do the utmost in their power and scope to provide the maximum chance to harvest an animal. I feel that TPW under Mike Pittman’s judgment undermined my ability to achieve this.
I am requesting that the hunt be redone and that the permit be reissued during a period of time that would afford me the highest possibility of success, which I have come to understand is during the rutting period from June 1 of 2009 to August 31 2009. This would coincide with the original dates of the permit that was issued to me. Once again I am capable of going on the hunt at any time.
I also want to say that words cannot describe the hospitality that was afforded me on this hunt. The amount of work that it entailed was very great and I am gracious for everyone’s efforts. The sole problem is that I believe a major tactical blunder occurred in the scheduling of the hunt and I don’t think that I should have be to the one that suffers from the mistakes made by a representative of TPW. I think that I deserve a second chance under more ideal conditions. My wife and I wrestled over whether or not to pursue this and we felt that after a lengthy discussion that we had to at least prevent this from happening to a future draw hunter.
Please contact me a your convenience within 30 days.


Sincerely,
Andrew Krupka



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Sounds like Texas Parks and Wildlife dropped the ball on this guys once in a lifetime hunt. He draws the hunt and then they place him in hunt dates that they normally don't hunt Sheep. I would be hot as well the premium tags are hard to draw.

Based on that side of the story, it certainly sounds like he has a legitimate complaint. The real "decider" would be if TPW normally schedules their bighorn hunts during that period, if not, then he deserves another chance IMO.

Sounds like the guy didn't do his research very well on the best time to hunt. I wouldn't have taken one persons word on when to go. If they let him redo his hunt then every unsuccessful person on every hunt will want the same deal. I feel sorry for the guy but time to man up and put it behind you.

"I am requesting that the hunt be redone and that the permit be reissued during a period of time that would afford me the highest possibility of success, which I have come to understand is during the rutting period from June 1 of 2009 to August 31 2009. This would coincide with the original dates of the permit that was issued to me."

Why would the hunt not have the dates available prior to applying? This makes no sense to me. It does sound like TPW changed the hunt date after the draw. If that is indeed the case, then you boys in Texas need to get some legisltive action done on how TPW sets hunt dates.

I could understand his frustration. I can only imagine what it would be like to just draw the tag, then hold up his end of the bargain, and to be defeated by the TPW! Kinda like your last senior football game, your undefeated, playing for the championship, and in the middle of the game you realize, the refs are on the other teams side!

Since it is a Texas issue, I had to use a football analogy!

quote:

Originally posted by Bear Kodiak:
"I am requesting that the hunt be redone and that the permit be reissued during a period of time that would afford me the highest possibility of success, which I have come to understand is during the rutting period from June 1 of 2009 to August 31 2009. This would coincide with the original dates of the permit that was issued to me."

Why would the hunt not have the dates available prior to applying? This makes no sense to me. It does sound like TPW changed the hunt date after the draw. If that is indeed the case, then you boys in Texas need to get some legisltive action done on how TPW sets hunt dates.

This is a lotto type draw for the tag/permit, you buy a ticket and if you win the tag/permit then you pick your dates for the area they put you in.

quote:

Originally posted by J P Baker:

quote:

Originally posted by Bear Kodiak:
"I am requesting that the hunt be redone and that the permit be reissued during a period of time that would afford me the highest possibility of success, which I have come to understand is during the rutting period from June 1 of 2009 to August 31 2009. This would coincide with the original dates of the permit that was issued to me."

Why would the hunt not have the dates available prior to applying? This makes no sense to me. It does sound like TPW changed the hunt date after the draw. If that is indeed the case, then you boys in Texas need to get some legisltive action done on how TPW sets hunt dates.

This is a lotto type draw for the tag/permit, you buy a ticket and if you win the tag/permit then you pick your dates for the area they put you in.

So did he pick the dates or did Mike Pittman pick the dates?

quote:

I told Mike Pittman that I owned my own business and could go on the hunt at any time and that I wanted to hunt sheep during a time period that afforded me the best opportunity to harvest a mature animal. He told me that we would be hunting in late January or early February.

This is Andrew's statement and I take it to mean that Mike picked the dates. While it is Andrews hunt and responsibility to do his research he was trusting Mikes judgment.

Again, if the TPW can't decide on a hunt date prior to assigning a draw hunt, what is the point of the TPW "governing" the tags. I wonder if this guy Mike is against the hunting of a mature desert bighorn, and this is his way of being an anti without having to be an extremist.

quote:

M16
sorry for the guy but time to man up and put it behind you.

M16,
This guy did nut up. He showed up in shape and ready. If you'll reread the letter you'll see where the other hunter was allowed better dates (presumably around the rutting time).

I'd be plenty upset too. He draws a $100k tag, has a dept of wildlife biologists (presumably some of the best in the world as TX has not only vast lands, we have the third largest coast, plenty of native game and widest variety of exotics) and they can't locate ONE mature ram??

'Man Up' is exactly what I'd be saying to Mike Pittman.

I've been putting in for TPW Public Hunts for over 18 years. It just boggles my mind how I can apply for a hunt at one of the least popular places and have 18 years of points and still not be drawn. I mean some of the places I apply to hunt only have 150 applicants and yet I never make it.

I have had some success with hunting Standby though.
Oh, and too bad on the sheep hunt.

Bluefin,

I don't think the other hunter was "allowed" better dates but instead chose them. I would like to hear Mike Pittman's side of the story but doubt that will happen. If they allow this hunter to redo his hunt what's going to happen with every other hunter now to eternity wanting the same treatment? It is a hunt after all. He got five or so days with four or five guides doing their best to locate a shootable ram. I would probably feel the same way he does but have had many successful hunts where no game was taken.

M16,

I hear you about 'hunting' and I agree. However, IMO this is quite different. There are only TWO tags drawn each year. Each year TPWD does write ups on these hunts. They make money on these hunts. The desert sheep and the Chaparral hunts are their coups de gras hunts.

Now if I'm Mike, not only am I embarrased that MY people can't find one shooter but that they can't find where the herd is hanging out. It's sort of like your not knowing where your Angus cows are. That's your premium beef there and you have people on staff whose job it is to know what is going on with that herd.

I'll guarantee you that the annual auction hunt that the state collects $100k for had a different outcome than this man's hunt.

Mr Young,

I hear ya. I have 14 pts...
The problem is I don't want to change ranches (Chapparal). Although b/c of the fire I did put in for Daughtry last year. But, same outcome. Do you suppose the computer just doesn't like our ssn? LOL

A number of us on another board followed this hunt from the time the hunter drew the tag (won the lottery). He says he told TPWD he could go essentially any time and they set the dates. Later they told him it was "kind of an experiment."

End result -- no ram.

Charles,

Is Mike 'considering' letting the guy hunt again or do you know if it's completely off the table?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefin:
Charles,

Is Mike 'considering' letting the guy hunt again or do you know if it's completely off the table?

TPWD said it would be unfair to let him re-do the hunt.

Link to thread.

Charles,

Thanks for the link. I feel for the guy.

Note to self, do research on prime dates to hunt!

Even if you research yourself, that DOES NOT mean the TPWD will allow you to hunt the dates you'd prefer.

The TPWD sets the dates, and they set the dates for this hunt in question.

If it was a known fact that the mature rams are not even in the area during this time frame, I must question tboth the agenda and intelligence of the person who changed the dates so that the hunt took place when it did.

I can also understand why the TPWD won't allow this hunt to be re-done as it would set a problematic precedent, but I still must question the antics of Mike Pittman -- and so should his superiors.

Yes Bluefin, Texas Parks and Wildlife has it out for us. At least I know they have it out for me. Every time I get one of those "notice of nonselection" cards I can almost hear the park rangers laughing...boo ha ha

I don't begrudge anyone that draws a bighorn sheep permit. But I think this was handled very poorly by all parties.

No big game biologist should ever schedule a hunt for a animal that will not be in the hunt area during the hunting season. That is just stupid, and doing a test hunt to see how things happen is double assinine.

I would be very unhappy to draw a sheep tag and not kill a sheep, but hunting is hunting. Not killing, and nothing is garanteed. If you had paid $50,000 for a bighorn sheep in Mexico and not killed a ram I would have felt sorry for you. But you drew a tag, the same as any tag lottery on bighorns, californias, or deserts anywhere else in the west. Lots of those folks who drew sheep tags didn't kill a ram either.

Hunting is hunting, if you hunted hard, and there were no good rams in your area. Then that is how hunting works.

My neighbor growing up in Wyoming drew a Sheep tag in Montana for an area considered to be the best bighorn area in the lower 48. About 3 months before the season almost every sheep in the area died off from blue tongue( or scrabie) or some other sheep disease. So his tag was null and void, and he went back to the bottom of the pile. As this was before preference points. It sucks when it happens, but hunting is not a sure thing.

Well, I guess once again, I am the odd man out, because I average getting drawn for at least one hunt yearly, and have done so since 1991.

I do go along with the thought that the whole thing was handled poorly by all concerned.

I do however have a problem with the draw process here in Texas, and that is I feel that the draws for the "Big Time Texas" hunts, and the draws for the Desert Bighorn's, Pronghorn's, and Mule Deer, should be restricted to Texas Resident's Only.

Those 3 species are in such limited numbers available to the average Resident Texan, that they should be reserved strictly for Texas Residents.

That's fine with me Crazyhorse, then you Texans should be banned from applying for pronghorn antelope, bighorn sheep and mule deer in the rest of the USA.

We are limited to only a certain percentage, or should I say all non-residents in many states are limited to only a certain percentage of licenses issued.

The difference is, a Non-Resident that wants to come down to Texas and spend the money can hunt each and every one of the animals you listed with out having to draw for a license, all they got to do is have the cash and buy the General Non Resident Hunting License for $300.00 and if they can hook up with the right landowner, they can shoot up to 5 whitetails, 2 mule deer, 4 turkeys, 2 javelina and if the land owner has antelope permits he can buy one of those, no drawing for nothing.

We have one drawing available to the public for antelope tags on Public Land here in Texas, and that is for 6 to 10 permits.

We have about a half dozen mule deer draw hunts, and have had 2 drawings for sheep tags, other than the Big Time hunts.

I am not sure that either of the permits that were up for the draws were ever given out or that there was a sheep available, except for the Big Time hunts.

Many of the mountain states have done everything they could to limit the number of licenses available to non residents.

Texas has such a limited amount of Public Land availavble for Texas residents to hunt on, that I just think it would be nice if the limited number of opportunities available were reserved for Texas residents, but TP&W does not see it that way.

It has to do with your state game and fish being smart enough to know that limiting tags to only residents can bite you in the ass on reciprocity.

Anyone that has the money can buy a Governors or Ministers tag for sheep in any state or provence that has them. How is that any different?

Anybody with the cash and connections can hunt antelope, deer, or elk on private land here in NM too - be they resident or non-resident. The public draw is limited to 22% non-residents (or so they say). I see nothing wrong with limiting non-resident hunters, but do have a problem excluding them entirely. I am a little frustrated by the commercialization of hunting, which I think will eventually be the demise of this sport as the quest for $$$ by landowners and outfitters pushes too many average Joes out.

There are also states where Non-Residents can not buy a tag for certain species no matter what.

The average hunter however can not afford to buy Govenors Tags or Ministers Tags.

TP&W is not one bit worried about reciprocity, they are worried about $$$$$$ flat out.

On all the regular draws, it is one $3.00 application per person, resident or non-resident.

On the Big Time hunts, it is $10.00 an application for however many you want to spend money on.

The average Texas Resident has a hard time getting drawn for many hunts, both the cheapie ones as well as the $10.00 ones, simply because there are either too many folks putting in for too few permits or too many folks that can afford $100.00 or $200.00 worth of the chances for the Premier hunts.

DesertRam, good response, that is what is happening in Texas, prices are forcing the average hunters out of the market.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefin:
Mr Young,

I hear ya. I have 14 pts...
The problem is I don't want to change ranches (Chapparal). Although b/c of the fire I did put in for Daughtry last year. But, same outcome. Do you suppose the computer just doesn't like our ssn? LOL

Having lots of points does not improve your chances to win as much as you would like to think.

Assume that you and 10,000 other hunters apply over and over for each hunt for 10 years. In that same ten years, there will be another 10,000 applicants that are in and out of the application process and accumulate points. At the end of ten years, you have 10 points. So rather than 10 points among 10,000 applicants, you are competing with up to 300,000 or more applicant "points".

I am no mathmatician, but I think that you are losing ground as more and more people accumulate points at the same rate you do..

Anyway, apply - you might win. You can't get drawn if you do not apply.

One thing I have not seen mentioned, was this Ram Permit obtained in the, for lack of a better word, Open Draw, or was it won in the Big Time Hunts drawing.

Over the past 3 or 4 years, TP&W has offered up a Desert Bighorn hunt in its Type I, or drawing hunts for the Public.

For a while longer than that, they have offered a Ram Hunt, in the Big Time Hunt package which includes a White Tail Buck, a Mule deer Buck, and A Buck Pronghorn.

The reason I am asking, is because I believe all 4 of the Big Time hunts occur on Private Land.

The hunt for the single Bighorn Tag takes place on State run property, AKA Wildlife Management Areas.

It is possible that the hunt in question is the one ofrfered on one of TP&W's Management Areas, and as such, it is possible/probable that a shootable ram was not available.

TP&W has only offered these hunts a couple of times and I do not remember hearing anything about a ram being killed.

A ram has been killed on each of the Big Time hunts I believe.

The Big Time hunts are the main draw for TP&W, and they count on Non-Residents putting in for them, because for a $10.00 a pop entry, the winner gets to hunt the 4 animals I mentioned above, and meals, lodging, a certain amount of the transportation, and taxidermy fees are covered.

As D99 stated, if a person has the $$$$$, they can hook up with a landowner here in Texas and go on a ram hunt.

TP&W issues permits to the ranchers working with them to restore the Desert Bighorns, and they can do what ever they want to with those permits.