I am looking to email Outdoor Life magazine and Jim Zumbo tommorrow. Jim was one of the 800 who got the "USO" tag and he uses USO. If enough people shout loud maybe we can get him to reconsider his alliance with USO. If Outdoor Life gets enough emails in a short time we could sway thier thoughts on the matter.



http://www.jimzumbo.com/contact.htm



Outdoor Life: OLMagazine@aol.com



Texans need not apply. (Unless you actually believe a State has rights)

What? Isn't Jim Zumbo from Montana. Say it ain't so. People from western states use USO?

COunt me in, Zumbo is in Cody Wyoming. He came here from back east, not sure if it was Penn. NJ. or NY. He has lived in Wy. a long time after being employed by the forest service. His alliance with USO is commercial, as he has his hunting show and being a writer.

I will write OL and I do subscribe.

I'm with you "Give 'em Hell!" there will come a time when USO will try to take on other states we MUST all fight to keep out "states rights" free of the Federal court system especially the 10th Circus court of appeals!

Sorry guys but count me out on this. I like Jim and his books. I'm not all together sure what the USO is doing is wrong. Here in Alabama everyone is welcome to hunt federal land, all it'll cost you is $77.50 no guide needed.

So whats the answer? Everyone just hunt in their own state? Just what do these AZ guys do that don't draw a tag in AZ? From the car tags I've seen in Wyoming and Colorado some of them go there and buy over the counter tags. Where would they hunt if these states applied the same laws as AZ does? Just for the record I've never hunted AZ and don't have plans to any time soon. BTW I never said they were MY elk, in fact I've only elk hunted once, I'am a member of the RMEF, and don't have plans to do it again anytime soon, but I will say that some people are more than willing to take MY money to support the land they elk hunt on.

I've known Zumbo as a friend for nearly 30 years now. So let's clear up a few "facts."

He's originally from NY state but moved to Utah after college to go to work as a biologist for the Utah game department. Prior to his move to Cody more than a decade ago, he lived in Vernal, UT for many years. -TONY

Unless Zumbo is a principal of USO, or has a sponsorship deal with them, boycotting him is pointless. If he used their services to obtain tag, I'd say he got his money's worth, no?

I've been boycotting the gun magazines for years for the blatant shilling in their pages, but they are still publishing.

CPS

Desert Ram- That is one of the best posts I've seen concerning the future impact of this fiasco.

Mark- The answer is for there to be access to the animals for all residents of America, but with preference given to the residents of each state. I hunted Alabama and I saw a ton of deer. You have an increasing quantity of resource to use, while Western State's herds are declining/stable.

OutdoorWriter- I too have met Jim and the reason why we should Email him with our disgust is because Jim is a rational person that I believe has a good grasp on Western issues such as this. I believe he will change his alliance, knowing that if this precident is set for Wyoming that he and his grand kids will have to draw for his tags rather than buy them OTC.

CPS- Jim has touted USO in his articles in Outdoor Life. The relationship is close. If Zumbo pulls his alligance then it will be one less way USO can obtain their publicity.

I wouldn't waste my time emailing USO. USO isn't going to change. They are just in it for the money, without regard to the resource.

I have one question, and then I'll sit and watch this one 'cuz for the most part we'll all pissin' in the wind here.

How do you think those folks in Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, and several other states back east that recently started hunting elk are going to feel when this decision and its impacts go country-wide? There are a lot of dedicated hunters and conservationists in those states that have spent huge amounts of money and dedicated uncountable hours to the reintroduction of elk in their states. Now, if we apply the AZ/USO decision to them, they will have to compete, equally as many here advocate, with NRs from all over the country for a once-in-a-lifetime hunt for elk. I've read that most of those states limit NR participation to about 10% in order to maintain a fair (my opinion) distribution of most of the tags to the residents of the state in which those elk reside. With that cap gone, what chance will those resident hunters have to hunt elk in their state? With the current demand, they'll have about a zero percent chance.

I don't think that's fair, even though I'd have a better shot of getting a tag. However, I didn't spend all my free weekends and a pile of cash to make sure there were elk in those states. So rationally I can't expect to have an equal chance of getting a tag there. I surely didn't contribute equally (more than just money here folks) to their establishment. I don't believe I have the "right" to those tags and those elk, even on public ground like national and state forests, when the residents of those states have much more at stake. Hell, I'd be happy with the 10% chance and shutup about it. Is that fair? I think so. And that is me looking the other way, or putting the shoe on the other foot, or whatever you want to call it.

Do I think I should get an "equal" chance at Maine's or New Hampshire's moose? No, because I don't contribute year round to their management, even though some of "my" tax money goes to support their public land habitat. Should I be able to walk into Wal-Mart in Alabama and buy a deer tag over the counter? Sure, if the game department believes it's in the best interests of the herd and of Alabama resident hunters. If they don't, then I shouldn't be able to buy a tag and I won't whine about it. If Oklahoma wants to stop me from buying a tag because New Mexico doesn't have OTC tags that their residents can buy, fine. They've determined that's in the best interests of their resident hunters and I'll accept that and not whine about it.

Every state has the obligation to look out for its own first and foremost. Their game agencies have the obligation to manage game with its best interest (and the interests of those that contribute most to its well being) at heart.

Like I said before, "equitable" drawings will ultimately eliminate the support from resident hunters that the wildlife in western states currently enjoys. Do you think the Audubon Society or the Sierra Club is going to look out for your hunting "rights" on public ground out here? I don't think so. Without residents' support, the wildlife has crap, which is what we'll all end up with if this continues. Bickering among each other about what's fair and what's not is not in the best interest of game management or hunting in general. By our very actions and infighting and finger-pointing and complaining we will bring down the pursuit that we all truly love - hunting of wild game under fair chase conditions. How badly do we really want that, I ask you.

Well said DesertRam! I could not have put it any better. I agree 100%. I live and hunt in Montana. I accept lower wages, freezing cold, poor business climite etc. to live here so I can have good hunting. Hunting is my passion so I pay my dues and I expect NR hunter to pay theirs too.

I just received this email from Jim Zumbo. GREAT to note the next to last paragraph where he states he will NOT hunt AZ with the "USO" tag he drew. Standup guy for sure.





Dear sportsmen and sportswomen,



Thank you for your email in reference to my association with George Taulman, owner of US Outfitters, and my drawing of an Arizona elk tag.



I'll try to answer your questions.



As I see it, there are three separate endeavors that George Taulman is invoved in. There is George Taulman the outfitter, George Taulman the licensing agent, and George Taulman the litigant who sued in the Arizona court.



I've known George Taulman ever since he started outfitting about 15 years ago. My first hunt with Taulman was with General Chuck Yeager in 1989 as a fund raiser for RMEF. I've hunted with Taulman a number of times since then, and practically all those hunts were with my editors from New York who wanted an elk hunt, and also with Tony Knight, owner of Knight modern muzzleloaders. Tony and I hunted several times with George to test new firearms that Tony was developing. Most of those hunts were unguided on public land. George essentially provided a bunk and meals, but I had my personal vehicle, and Tony and I hunted on our own, mostly on the Lincoln National Forest in New Mexico. For the record, I have not hunted elk with George Taulman for the last six years.



Taulman started his licensing business about 12 years ago, and he's been applying me to hunts since that time. This is how it works. For a fee, USO acts as my power of attorney and applies me to different units in different states. As one who makes a living writing about hunting, and now TV shows, I hunt in as many varied places as possible. It's not uncommon for me to hunt two dozen states each year. My average is 20 states per year, and I'm on the road 200 plus days a year. Obviously, it's an advantage for me to have a licensing agent to take care of the details and paperwork. As you and half the west now knows, I drew an elk tag in Arizona this year. I believe I had five bonus points when I drew the elk tag. The last tag I drew through USO was in 2001, and that was a moose tag in Utah. I had been applying for that tag for about 15 years. Since 2001, I have failed to draw at least 100 tags that I had applied for through USO.



As far as the court case, I am in no way involved in this litigation. Anyone who assumes that I am is misinformed. Here's my take on this. When Taulman first told me about this litigation effort, I was not in approval if it meant that I had to share equally my tag with nonresidents. As a Wyoming resident, for example, I have the privilege of having priority over tags because I'm a resident, as all of you do in your home states. I can buy an elk or deer tag at Walmart, but you, as a nonresident, must apply. I believe in states rights. Even though much wildlife ranges on federal land, I believe that a resident should have some sort of preference, but I also believe that you as a nonresident should be able to hunt here as well. In fact, I lived in Utah for 14 years, and continually applied for Wyoming tags, but couldn't draw. I became so frustrated that I moved here!



There are currently some unfair practices that discriminate against nonresidents. In North Dakota, nonresidents cannot hunt turkeys. In California and South Dakota, nonresidents cannot hunt elk. In Montana, nonresidents cannot apply for bighorn sheep tags in some of the top units in the state. In Idaho, only residents could hunt moose until two years ago, even though most moose lived on federal land. That law was rightfully changed recently. In my home state of Wyoming, a nonresident cannot hunt a wilderness area without a guide. That is a bad law, inferring that you nonresidents aren't as savvy about survival and woods skills as a resident is. I know some Wyoming hunters who would get lost when they got out of sight of a paved road, and I know nonresidents that are outstanding woodsmen.



I don't know where this litigation will go. From what I understand, it's possible that in the extreme scenario, in all states, the tags will be be allocated 50-50. In other words, a nonresident can have as much a chance to hunt here in Wyoming as I can. When that happens, I won't be a happy camper, if I cannot buy a general tag in my own state. You, as a nonresident, might be a very happy camper, but you won't like it when YOU have to draw against nonresidents on a 50-50 basis in your own state. Arizona is different, as are a few other states, where even residents have to draw, and cannot just buy a general license.So you see, this is a double-edged sword. Nobody wins. But we hunters lose. This is another example of how we shoot ourselves in the foot, by bickering and arguing. The animal rights people love it. Trust me, I've interviewed many of them, and situations like this are exactly what they want to see.



I can certainly understand why Arizona residents are upset. I would be, too, if I was in that situation. I'm not sure exactly how this draw worked, but I'm told that I, and other nonresidents, were drawn specifically because of Taulman's litigation. Frankly, I had no clue that this was all going on, and I was surprised to get the tag. I also believe I've been unfairly broadsided by some of you who have made erroneous assumptions with my relationship with George Taulman. Again, I had no part in the litigation.



For your information, I will not hunt Arizona for elk this year. This decision did not come about because of the negative communications I've received. I love a good fight, but this is not a good fight. It's divisive. It's bad for hunters and hunting. Sure, I could hunt Arizona and perhaps kill the biggest bull of my life. I will not hunt there to make my point.



I hope this all ends peacefully, but right now it is a volatile issue. Thanks again for writing, even those of you who want me tarred and feathered. Believe it or not, I try to represent all hunters in my work. I'm a board member of the United States Sportsmen's Alliance, a national group headed by Dick Cabela that lobbies for hunting everywhere against anti-hunters. I preach hunting ethics and fair chase in everything I write. I can assure you that I have never asked for or received favoritism. Many people believe that because of my status in a national hunting magazine, I get strings pulled. I have honestly never known that to happen.



Good hunting,



Jim Zumbo

A classy individual in my humble opinion.

Now that is what we need more people like Jim!!!

Fine response from Mr. Zumbo, and about what I'd expect after meeting him a couple times. No, I'm not claiming we're friends.

DesertRam, two excellent, well thought out and superbly stated posts.

I'm glad he outlined the relationship as he did. Although I already knew most of the details of his relationship with Taulman that he included in his email, it wasn't my place to put it here. That's why in an earlier message, I only cleared up some misinformation that had been posted. Everything Jim wrote is true, and I would have expected no less from him.



Btw, just as a bit of an aside:



I first met Zumbo through a mutual friend at a turnout in Yellowstone National Park. I believe that was in 1976. Jim was with Gabby Barrus, who was also a writer and -- I think -- a guide in WY at the time. We were all there shooting photos during the elk rut. That night we went to their trailer in one of the YNP campgrounds, broke bread and enjoyed a bit of wine.



Over the years, Jim and I became friends, and I occasionally stopped in Vernal for a visit. We later served together on the board of directors of the Outdoor Writers of America Association (OWAA). Most importantly, it was Jim that suggested Outdoor Life hire me as a field editor back in the 1980s. I served in that capacity for about 7 years -- until OL changed its format a bit. -TONY

Hot Core,

Kurt von Besser and I have been good friends for about 15 years or more now. We first met when I was doing the research on the UV vision thingie for the definitive article I wrote for Outdoor Life on that topic in the early 1990s.

Since then, we have hunted together numerous times. The NM elk hunt was one, and we also did archery hunts in MI (deer) and Alberta (elk). I even hunted his property in SC for deer once.

Although we don't get together to hunt much anymore, we talk on the phone quite a bit. -TONY

Hey Tony, Only met him once that I can recall and it was probably in the late 1980's, but that could be wrong. A Hunting buddy, John, and I stopped by his place just to look around and noticed all the outstanding Trophy's.

Mr. Kurt noticed that John's little girls were mesmerized by the mounts and encouraged them to go look around all they wanted. It was before he had the BIG Trophy Room built and mounts were all over the place.

Nice fellow.

Yeah, his office was sort of a clutter in the old days, wasn't it? Kinda looked like what my too-small trophy room now looks like. I was there twice back then but haven't been there to see the new building.

Not sure if you know this or not, but Kurt got much of his financial well-being even before he started Atsko. He designed and made the Besser ski bindings while he still lived in the Chicago area. Atsko came after he sold that company.

Here's a snippet I found on the web about the history of bindings:

In 1967 Tyrolia introduced the Clix Rocket step-in heel unit, and Salomon responded with a heel unit that could be cocked open for step-in by closing its cover latch. By 1970, Kurt von Besser, Rudi Gertsch and Dr. Richard Spademan introduced new variations on the plate binding, just as plastic boots offered the promise of a standardized boot sole, which would eliminate the need for notched toes and screwed-on steel plates. It was clear that to stay competitive, a ski binding company needed deep pockets for research and testing. < !--color-->



Besser plate binding, 1970's

If tony considers him a friend,then zumbo has to be a piece of shit. By the way tony please ignore this post.

Quote:

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*** You are ignoring this user ***

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MGC,

I just got off the phone with Jim's wife, Madonna. She told me to thank you posting his email here. She also said they are in the process of getting a letter up on the web site, but Jim is in West Yellowstone right now and won't be home until next week.

As an aside, I spoke with one of my guide friends today who also drew a tag for Unit 10, the same one Zumbo got. I told him about the email here. He was so impressed by the principle of it, he said that if Jim decided to change his mind about hunting in AZ, he would personally guide him at no charge. And this guy already has a 400+ bull scouted out from last year.

Sooo...I mentioned this to Madonna. Her reply was basically along the lines of no way in hell will Jim change his mind. What he said in his email will stand the test of time.

There ya have it. -TONY

Gosh, you sure seem to be an open minded, friendly type guy, RMK.

I hadn't seen that from Mr. Garbage Mouth because I have him on my ignore list. But at least it's true to form. -TONY

Tony,
That picture of the Besser binding is a blast from the past. I had a pair in the 70's. Heavy and a pain to get into on a steep slope but they worked pretty well for the time. They were unique in that they allowed a vertical release as well as horizontal. They must have worked because i never broke a leg with them

Jeff

Jeff,

Yeah, Kurt and I discussed that part of his life several times because I also got into skiing in the early 1970s but had never heard of the Besser bindings. I can't really recall now for sure, but I think my first bindings, which were two-piece quick-release affairs, were made by Salomon. -TONY

Then you never had the pleasure of the old "bear traps". Those were real leg breakers. Interesting side note is that modern bindings have improved to the point that boot top fractures are no longer the major ski injury. Now it is ACL tears often caused by the skier sitting back too far and putting too much strain on the knee. A condition the Besser addressed by being able to release vertically.

Jeff

Tony, I was born in 76 started skiing when I was for, and have used Besser bindings.

Chuck

Oh yeah, I broke my leg at age 5, as I was to light to release from anything.

Chuck

Skibum,



I certainly recall seeing Bessers on the slope when I was skiing back then. I don't think Besser is around anymore, though, is it?



The Salomon's I had were the step-in types where you put a toe in and then lower the heel, which automatically locked the heel piece in place. Back then, the ski break wasn't even around; we used those leashes that hook around an ankle.



Chuck,



You're just a young pup. I was already in my 30s when I started skiing in the 70s. First trip was a bus trip from Phoenix to Purgatory near Durango, Co. On the way to the slopes from the hotel the first morning, our bus skidded off the road, turned on its side and slide down a steep hillside for about 100 yards. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt because the deep snow sort of cushioned the crash. One broken arm, two nasty cuts from flying goodies from the overhead rack and assorted bruises.



My wife spent that day and night in the hospital with a very sore shoulder and neck. She was seated against the window that wound up on the bottom. So the two people across the aisle and I wound up falling on top of her. I went skiing that afternoon for the first time. -TONY

Hah! I began skiing in the early '60's--Kubko (Kubco?) bindings, and of course those little leashes. Best skis around were Head Vectors at around $130--big money. Boots were leather, actually a leather boot in a leather boot. Yep, you laced up twice per foot. A lot of skis were wood, fiberglass the big up and comer. Metal were Head or Hart, period, and you could tell them apart because Heads were black, Harts were red. You could get any color you wanted, as long as it was one of those. You determined your ski length by holding your outstretched arm above your head, the proper length being to your wrist, or a skosh longer.

I wished I had started in my younger days. Although I got pretty good at it and could get down the black diamond slopes, I never really learned how to ski moguls well.



My first skis were Rossignols, but they were fairly short, perhaps only a 80" or so. -TONY

No, Bessers are not around any more. Arts, I started with leather lace boots too. Miserable things. I started at 4 in the early 60's. Only had rope tows. I'd take my skis off and start climbing. My dad would take the rope and ski down to as far as I'd got. I'd put my skis on and down I'd go. The old safety straps were a treat too. Granted they'd keep your loose ski from taking off like a missle but they would cause them to windmill back into the skiers head. I remember my buddy catching a ski in the scalp when we were about 13. He had a white jacket on. Looked like a murder scene with all the blood. A couple dozen stitches later we were back on the hill.

Jeff