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Should the .375H&H/Ruger be the minimum for Elk and Black bear ? If not, why not. | ||
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I have killed several elk with a 300 mag, and black bear with a 308. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Cause 100s are cleanly taken every year with: 270 Wins 7mm-08s 7x57 280 Rem 308 Win 30-06 8x57 338-06 358 Win 35 Whelen 9,3x62 and all the .277, .284, .308, .323, .338, .358. and .366 high velocity magnums So...that's about 30 plus other less powerful and perfectly capable cartridges Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I've been killing elk since 1977 with a 30/06 using 180 grain bullets. No reason to change, it works just fine. CB | |||
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Beacuse it is not needed Fun but not needed. Most critters can be killed with very under powered rounds IE. 22lr. But I perfer to have a bit of a safety margin when I hunting. On the chance I well not have the perfect shot. That said if one hunts with underpower rounds one just has to be willing to wait for the right shot. I have hunted with "so called underpowered rounds" what ever that maybe. and I have killed my game with them. Just have to be carefull. Plus there is no need for more foolish goverment Regulations. | |||
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The only elk I have shot was with a 375 H-H my black bear was with a 308 win. Brown Bear is the only thing I would see a 375 as being nicely suitable for. Everything else its simply overkill and used for such game cause its fun not cause its needed. Minimum for elk and black bear in my opinion would be a .243 . Luckily here in Montana we have no caliber restrictions because we can actually make our own decisions. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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I've taken Elk with a 375 H&H but I don't think it would be the minimum. | |||
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I can't imagine it being the minimum. But, as the OP's question, I ask: minimum what? Bore size? Muzzle Energy? Momentum? KO Factor? I imagine with the right bullet and good shot placement, though, the 375 H&H is a definitive slayer of elk. | |||
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What he said! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I think you'ld get a lot of hunters screwing up from a flinch since not everyone likes recoil. I don't think the 375 H&H recoils that bad, but I have only had one guy at the shooting range take up my offer to shoot it. Perception is reality for a lot when it comes to recoil. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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 Because it simply isn't needed. M_D hit it pretty well, and I've never felt underpowered when hunting with my .270 Win for elk. The only black bear I've killed I did it with an 06 and he never moved after he fell. However I did once end the escape of a wounded pronghorn with a .375 Ruger. Contrary to popular belief, the good ol .30-30 Win kills elk and black bear just the same as it always did. When used within reason it is very good at knocking over both animals mentioned as well as it ever did in the late 1800's. Use whatever rifle you are comfortable with (within reason) and you will probably come home with an elk or black bear if you see one on a hunt. | |||
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I've killed the majority of my Elk with a .375 H&H and a 300gr Hornady boat tail spire point. All have been within 100 yards or so and all were serious one shot stops. Being born and raised in Elk country, I have watched elk taken with everything from 30-30's to .340 Weatherby Magnum's. It's all personal preference, I just like to put them down where they stand. In 23 years of Elk hunting, I have seen more .300 Win Mag's in hunters hands out west here than all the other calibers combined. -------------------------------------------- Nothing like a trail of blood to find your way back home. | |||
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Yes it is. Like the statement, "A 270Win recoils a lot less than a 30-'06." Only in your mind, only in your mind. Hunt elk with a 338WinMag and a Rem740 30-'06. Killed at least one with a 300Savage in a Model 99. Dead is dead. | |||
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Around here good sized black bears and moose are regularly taken cleanly with .44 mag and 30-30. The NH state record bear (almost 600 lbs)was taken with a T/C Contender 14" in 30-30. -+-+- "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama | |||
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Ok, I'll fess up. I asked over on campfire if African hunters were overgunned for plains game. Elk and Black Bear being roughly equivalent in size, weight and toughness to Plains game. Some interesting replys. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...php/topics/4536467/1 | |||
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What you need to remember is this: we are talking about THIN skinned game (in all of North America). You don't need a .375. This isn't African, thick skinned, dangerous game. Regarding elk or black bear, any non-magnum from a .270 through a .358 will do. If you want to shoot one of the magnums within that range of bullets, that's fine too. But if you get your jollies (and most importantly are comfortable) shooting game in North America with a .375, knock your socks off and go for it. It's all about having fun. There's nothing wrong with it. But it's not needed. | |||
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FWIW, I think the 375 is a hoot to shoot. We have at least one moose tag for next year and I'd like to see it perform up close and personal on a sizeable beastie. | |||
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Caliber for most hunting comes down to what you like and what you shoot WELL. I personally like the 375 H&H for everything. I have used it for Whitetails in the east, Pronghorn in Wyoming, Elk in Utah and PG in Africa. What I like most is that EVERYTHING shot with the 375 has droped where it stood. Yes shot placement is most important, but the 375 H&H with the combination of frontal surface and velocity seems to be magical. That is not to say that using other calibers for any NA big game or for that fact Africa plains game, you will be undergunned. I just happen to love the venerable 375 H&H. Martin | |||
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Yeah, And you don't need a .375 H&H for African plains game either.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I seldom like to make absolutes about anything in life, but I've got to make one here, and this is not stated negatively about anyone or anything said in the above or following posts: but if you can't take the recoil of possibly the greatest caliber ever developed, the .375H&H, then you're a pussy. It's phenomenal on everything in NA and most everything in Africa, and I think Craig Boddington is right here, if you could choose only one caliber for any big game worldwide, it's got to be the .375H&H. If the recoil of the .375H&H hurts you, then find another sport. It's a great elk, any kind of bear, moose, whitetail, muledeer, antelope, most Afican species, etc. , etc. It does a fabulous job on coyotes.---One of the finest takes in my life was a North Georgia whitetail buck with a .375H&H from an Interarms Mark X Whitworth at about 30 yards with a .270gr SP, open sights. So dead is not even the discription.----But I am a little biased; I like big bores. JMOO Mike JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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When one defines a (so called) minimum for anything it must be done in the context of "what else might come up" If one hunts elk where there is a known population of grizzlies then he might be well advised to use a bit more gun than usual.... If one hunts African plains game where he might need to defend against a different nasty critter then he might be fully justified to say the .375 H&H is a minimum. Like a lot of folks on the AR forums I have been fortunate enough to have hunted plains game.....but not in an area where serious dangerous game abounded......and there a .30-06 is fully adequate for the plains game..... Again....context can make a difference. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I think the 375H&H is minimum for ground squirrels. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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And if you miss, the squirrel has a new hole to run down into. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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not a minimum but will work great with proper placement. Hey--- if you are going to make a hole in something, why not make it a big hole to remember! Elmer Keith school of cartridge selection.  | |||
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