Gentlemen,

I have searched the forums but seemingly cannot find much practical advice on the above combination.

The bears in question are Russian, not American, so not as large as the massive coastal grizzlies you guys get but tend to top out at 250-300 kgs. I ask this question here because I figure that more people on this forum would have more experience with brown bear than on the euro/asian forum.

I have a 30.06 that I like and am very familiar with, my question is whether to go ahead and take it on the hunt, probably with 180gr hornady interlocks or 168gr TSX, or get a bigger rifle?

The question is complicated somewhat by a few factors however.

The first is that I am planning to go and shoot scrub bulls and water buff in Oz in 2012 and will need a rifle for that in any event. I was planning to get a 458 of some description for that.

The hunt is not just for bear but also for moose, boar an maybe elk. This makes me think I need something a bit more flat shooting than a 458.

The question then seems to me to be whether the 30.06 can cover everything up to the 458 or whether I'll wind up needing a .375 to cover the middle ground anyway.

All help appreciated as always.

Regards,

A

Get the 375 and use it for both...

375 H&H for everything around the globe.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...8521043/m/8031063341

Down in Alaska forum

IMHO a 30-06 and a 458 do cover everything

Good hunting, sounds fun

SSR

Or...you could get a 416 instead of the 375. If your heart is set on the 458, get that. The more I shoot, the more I like my 375.

30-06 will work just fine.

For an almost 700 pound bear, while the .30-06 will work, I would personally feel more comfortable with a .338 or .375. The 06 will require a little attention to shot angles on a big bruin, they are tough. Remember, there is no such thing as a "little" bear... As you are in the UK, I presume that you have a bit of difficulty just grabbing whatever you want. Unless you want to get a midbore for some reason, the 06 is probably going to do all you need on this hunt.

On the other hand, this is european hunting, and I don't know if you would get long shots (300 yards or more). The .458 with a lighter bullet (300 or 350 grain) will likely be fine for anything less than 200 yards/meters.

If you decide to use the .30-06 I would bump my bullet weight up though, especially for the bear. The 220 grain 30-06 is probably your best bet with that rifle on bear.

I assume this is a guided hunt. In Russia, most likely the guide will be using a 7.62X54 R so you would be better armed than him with the .30-06.

The .30-06 will work fine but I recommend using the 180 Barnes bullets. Barnes' are loading it in their VOR-TX ammo.

the 06 is a fine rifle/cartridge and
i think capible of all the species mentioned.
and i wouldn't hesitate to use it, except
i have a 375 and it would just "make sense"
to hunt the russian bear and the scrub bull
and water buff with it.
for those 3 critters the 375 makes
MORE sense.

Thank you gents, a lot of practical advice here.

quote:

Originally posted by 450/400:
Get the 375 and use it for both...

I was trying to think of something smart to reply to this but just can't escape from it's practical wisdom!

It's hard to get away from the mighty 375, it does as you say do almost everything with the minimum of fuss.

The issue is as Crbutler correctly suspects to be that due to our silly gun laws I can most likely only be licensed one "large bore" by the UK police. This is not strictly speaking the case, but in practice what one does is establish the underlying need for the rifle on the basis of trips away and then also asks for shooting large deer in the UK otherwise one isn't allowed to hunt or perhaps even fire that rifle in the UK. If the preceding is the case then one is isn't even permitted to possess expanding ammunition precluding load development and/or any meaningful practice!

I imagine that this state of affairs, with respect to practice especially, isn't the most desirable when hunting dangerous game and so need to make a choice and stick to it, as it were.

I would be able to get one large rifle licensed in such a way as to actually get enough practice with it to hunt but in all likelihood not two. Hence my question about whether the 06 would cover the ground to the 458 or would I need to get a 375 in any event.

I am rather familiar with my trusty 06 and have used it with satisfaction on animals upto the 300kg class, using your loads to boot if I'm not mistaken , but don't know anything about bears.

Perhaps the 416 might be the way forward after all...

Hope you, G and the ankle-biters are well BTW mate, when are you coming over then?

Best,

A

A,

After reading your whole thread I have to agree that the time tested 375H&H is the best choice for everything you want to hunt. With the lighter 270 gr. bullet it will shoot as flat as the '06 and switching to the 300 grainer makes it great for the heavier stuff.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
For an almost 700 pound bear, while the .30-06 will work, I would personally feel more comfortable with a .338 or .375. The 06 will require a little attention to shot angles on a big bruin, they are tough. Remember, there is no such thing as a "little" bear... As you are in the UK, I presume that you have a bit of difficulty just grabbing whatever you want. Unless you want to get a midbore for some reason, the 06 is probably going to do all you need on this hunt.

On the other hand, this is european hunting, and I don't know if you would get long shots (300 yards or more). The .458 with a lighter bullet (300 or 350 grain) will likely be fine for anything less than 200 yards/meters.

If you decide to use the .30-06 I would bump my bullet weight up though, especially for the bear. The 220 grain 30-06 is probably your best bet with that rifle on bear.

I assume this is a guided hunt. In Russia, most likely the guide will be using a 7.62X54 R so you would be better armed than him with the .30-06.

Hi Mr. Butler,

Your comments are very pertinent, thank you for taking the time to reply.

In answer to your questions the ranges will in all probability be short on the Russian escapade but I have no ideal what sort of ranges the scrub bulls will be shot at.

Could you recommend a particular 220 grain bullet, after reading through the thread CrossL drew my attention to I came away with ideas of some sort of 200 grain premium but I am open to suggestion on the heavier slugs. Bullet weight seems to be no bad thing and at less than 100 yards I'm sure both will have more than sufficient velocity
to do the job.

|I'm going as a guest of a hunter in Russia and in fairness they have a 9.3 bolt and a .45 Blaser R93 I could probably borrow but want to hunt with my own rifle.

Hmmmmmm, a 9.3......

Regards,

A

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
A,

After reading your whole thread I have to agree that the time tested 375H&H is the best choice for everything you want to hunt. With the lighter 270 gr. bullet it will shoot as flat as the '06 and switching to the 300 grainer makes it great for the heavier stuff.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Kiri has told me a lot about you, I'm frankly amazed you could tolerate him for the whole show like you did!

That .375 is looming isn't it?

I'm sure it'll flatten the bear but I'm worried (πerhaps I read to many stories on the internet......) it'll be a bit light for the dense bush and the bulls.

Regards,

Amir

There are multiple makers that I am aware of. Probably the best of the 220's is the Nosler partition, although Hornady's isn't bad either, but doesn't retain mass as well in my experience. Of course, Remington made a 220 grain Core Lockt as a factory offering as well here.

If you want to step down a smidge there are a bunch of 200 grain choices, such as Northfork, Swift, etc.

There may well be some european manufacturers that I have no experience with that you may have good luck with. In an 06, with the velocity available there is little need for an ultra premium. I like Barnes bullets, but with the high weight in a pure copper bullet you will loose some case capacity.

My experience with the .375 H&H is that it is a great all around rifle as Mark said. Its what I use as my light/Plains game rifle in Africa, but I have killed cape buffalo with it as well. If you are willing to give up on the idea of a true big bore, it will hunt the world, but if you plan on shooting a lot of buff and elephant, I would go bigger, assuming you can take the bigger gun recoil.

I use my .458 Winchester Magnum (in a CZ 550) in Canada for bear and moose. The load is a 350gr Barnes TSX, which I think would work very well on the Russian bears, and scrub bulls.

Because mine has the long, magnum action, I can seat the bullet out to a COL of 3.45", which helps in accuracy and in using more powder for a MV of 2750 fps. But I think any "standard" .458 Win Mag will allow an MV of around 2600+ fps from that bullet. Plenty flat shooting, and lots of energy out to 300 + yards. Then, you'd have the really heavy-weights available should you need them.

There's also a "new" 300 grain Barnes TTSX that should do a very good job on any lesser game, such as deer species. At around 2500 to 2800 fps it too would reach waaay out there! No flies on the .458 WM when loaded with todays powders and bullets!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
There are multiple makers that I am aware of. Probably the best of the 220's is the Nosler partition, although Hornady's isn't bad either, but doesn't retain mass as well in my experience. Of course, Remington made a 220 grain Core Lockt as a factory offering as well here.

If you want to step down a smidge there are a bunch of 200 grain choices, such as Northfork, Swift, etc.

There may well be some european manufacturers that I have no experience with that you may have good luck with. In an 06, with the velocity available there is little need for an ultra premium. I like Barnes bullets, but with the high weight in a pure copper bullet you will loose some case capacity.

My experience with the .375 H&H is that it is a great all around rifle as Mark said. Its what I use as my light/Plains game rifle in Africa, but I have killed cape buffalo with it as well. If you are willing to give up on the idea of a true big bore, it will hunt the world, but if you plan on shooting a lot of buff and elephant, I would go bigger, assuming you can take the bigger gun recoil.

Thanks CR,

I think that on balance, and after reading that thread on the Alaskan forum that CrossL posted, the 200 grain partition seems like the kiddie.

I'm undecided on the 375/458 issue. I am fairly sure I can handle the recoil, unless they kick more than a 7lb O/U shotgun firing 3 1/2" shells or a 8 1/2lb .378 weatherby with a 22 barrel and no brake ( my current "kicks-like-a-bastard" record holders ) but the more I read the more versatile the 375 looks.

Hmmm..... Perhaps a thread on the effectiveness on the 375 on Aussie buff would put my mind at ease.

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
I use my .458 Winchester Magnum (in a CZ 550) in Canada for bear and moose. The load is a 350gr Barnes TSX, which I think would work very well on the Russian bears, and scrub bulls.

Because mine has the long, magnum action, I can seat the bullet out to a COL of 3.45", which helps in accuracy and in using more powder for a MV of 2750 fps. But I think any "standard" .458 Win Mag will allow an MV of around 2600+ fps from that bullet. Plenty flat shooting, and lots of energy out to 300 + yards. Then, you'd have the really heavy-weights available should you need them.

There's also a "new" 300 grain Barnes TTSX that should do a very good job on any lesser game, such as deer species. At around 2500 to 2800 fps it too would reach waaay out there! No flies on the .458 WM when loaded with todays powders and bullets!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Good ideas on increasing the versatility of the 458, thank you sir.

A

quote:

Originally posted by 450/400:
Get the 375 and use it for both...

i have shot moose elk brown bear scrub bulls all with the 06 with no issues, just get a good 200 gn proj like the 200 gn nosler @2650-2700 and go hunting...My scrub bulls dropped in there tracks, with phenominal penetration....on the scrub bulls i was useing the 200 tsx thou
Daniel