The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting 7mm120grBT for Elk? Say it ain't so Joe!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 7mm120grBT for Elk? Say it ain't so Joe! | Login/Join |
| one of us |
I would suggest chest waders! It is getting deep. | |||
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| one of us |
Almost enough to make you sneeeeeze! Ahhhhbuuuulllllsssssshhhht. Anyone care to give the time and place of the article so we can enjoy for ourselves? | |||
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| <George Hoffman> |
I think I may have started reading that article and became so disgusted I put it down and did something else. Why do hunters think they are wasting energy when a bullet passes through an animal??? That same bullet will also, break more bone going in or out. It will also, do just as much damage as it passes thru as the lighter bullet. The lighter has just given up and in some cases on a angleing shot will not get the job done. That writer will probaly change his mind if he hunts long enough and gets more experience. George | ||
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| <dcan> |
This seems to be how a lot of info we see today becomes in the newbies' mind real. GunwriterX who may be an excellent shoot (or just lucky) manages to place the bullet in the right spot. This now becomes his crusade and darn if some followers come out of woodwork then "new urban legion" is born. Now I have seen moose taken down like lightning by a 25/20 with same neck shot. Was it a lucky shoot or a very powerful weapon expending all of it energy in the neck of the moose? My thought is hunter had the whole horse up you know where. [This message has been edited by dcan (edited 04-08-2001).] | ||
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| <sure-shot> |
Tom F, this was a phone conversation a few months ago with a fairly well known gunwriter out of Oregon (hint). I called him with a few questions about my good friend's disappointment in the Win 7mm175grPP bullet out of a 7Rem Mag on a 6pt bull in SE Idaho last year. I don't think this was a poor choice in cartridge as in bullet choice. As for shot placement there were 4 hits,first two in the shoulder-chest area,one in the neck and the last in the mid-section. Range was about 350-400yds. Outfitter spotted and called the shots.The big bull walked about a 1/2 mile before expiring. My friend is going back to his 338win. As for the gunwriter (Gunwriter-X) he is very anti-magnum, praises the Nosler7mm120-140grBT for elk. Gunwriter X stated all the other gunwriters were simply wrong! This is why I posted this most controversial topic. Who has rubber boots on sale? | ||
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| one of us |
I don't know who your gunwriter is but he is undoubtably the most ignorant one scribe in the history of gundom....A real cyberspace genious of the Nerd gun world....A flippent perveyor of untruth and one of zilch experience....end of story... Also, on this expended energy within the carcass, that is also a bunch of crap that has spread like wildfire because it sounds logical, well it aint...Two holes with air rushing in and blood rushing out, thats what kills big nasty creatures... If I had time, I'd tell you how I really feel but that'll have to surfice for now. ------------------ | |||
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| <yorick> |
My dad shot a big bull elk with a 264 winmag, 140gr bullet, 1 shot in the chest cavity, the bull took 2 steps and expired. He was big, but he hangs on the wall now. I think we (hunters collectively) tend to exagerate the importance of bullet size. Bigger is better, but let's admit that for a good hunter, just about ANY of the modern high performance cartridges are adequate for any non dangerous game in north america. Hell, how many deer/elk/moose have been hunted and taken over the years with "inferior" rounds like the 44-40, 32-40 or 30-30??? People kill deer, moose, and elk with a bow for petes sake, most of the time they just arn't that hard to kill....if you know what you are doing.... By the same token, all the fancy hardware, huge bullet diameter, and super magnum horsepower in the world won't make elmer fudd into a great hunter... just my .02 | ||
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| one of us |
One would think this guy should get a real job and buy a 300 Wby. 450yd. shots at elk with a bullet that has less than 800ft/lb of energy and a 4' drop.Must have quite an imagination which might make a good writer for soap operas. | |||
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| one of us |
I should also have said that I have a lot of trouble with the stated 3250f/s.Try about 2850. | |||
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| <sure-shot> |
Okay boys here's some more enjoyment. Gunwriter-X's cartridge is the 7mm08ackley imp.40deg. shoulder. I agree its a great deer cartridge and with 150-160gr Nosler Part it would do fine on elk in the timber. I'm building one right now as my primary muley gun. Gunwriter X's velocity claims are suspect on the 120gr(22" barrel). He used to write for Wolfe Publisher's Mags and has several testimonials in the last two Nosler manuals. I'm amazed Gunwriter-X would go againest conventional wisdom , hell he would not even advocate the Partition bullet for elk. I found rubber boots on sale at Wal-Mart. . | ||
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| One of Us |
Undoubtedly people kill elk and all sorts of other game with inadequate caliber/bullet combinations. But it is irresponsible behavior. There seems to be a trend these days to prove one's machismo by using a puny caliber for hunting. It does not impress me. | |||
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| <George Hoffman> |
Gentlemen: This same kind of mentality prevaded Africa many years ago when the 280 Ross, came on the market. Greorge Grey, is the best known hunter to be killed by a lion, but there are many more graves in Nairobi, marked "killed by Lion" because of simular attitudes. George | ||
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| <IDkTm> |
Ah come on name the gunwriter, what does it hurt. Obviously he's a fool lets know who he is. | ||
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| one of us |
I'd like to know who it was too. At least tell us what cartridege he commented on for the Nosler manual... If he was using a 140 or 150 grain X bullet in his 7mm-08, and taking broadside shots, would anyone still be upset? I don't own one but hasn't the very similar 7x57 done a good job of killing kudu, eland etc.? (I know about the elephants too, but that's a little beyond what we're talking about here | |||
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| <phurley> |
I like the bigger bullets for Elk. 160 gr. and up. I have seen the good, bad and ugly with all kinds of rifles from .243 up to .458. I like a flat shooting chambering and complete penetration and blow out on the off side. I shoot a .340 Wby. Sure you can kill an Elk with a .264 or a 44-40 or a 32-40 or a 30-30. What you don't hear is how may animals those hunters lost each year until they did get their meat. I have a brother-in-law that lost three bulls before he brought one to camp and he shoots a .300 win mag. I have a buddy that still hunts with a 30-30 but he knows his limitations. He says he has to have a 30-30 shot or he will not shot and that being 150 yards and down. He gets in the brush and roots them out and kills animals the long range hunters walk by. There is a place for any chambering if the hunter understands its strong and weak points and his or hers. I have seen a hunter shot at a gigantic bull at 500 yards with a .260 Rem and exclaim, hell I missed it 20 ft. what do you think I did wrong. I said, when you decided you were an Elk hunter with deer hunting equipment. Good Shooting. ------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
I would much prefer a 170 gr. 30-30 at 2100 FPS or a 175 gr. 7x57 at 2500 FPS than a 140 gr. 264 on elk size animals and that ain't based on one animal hanging on the wall...but on several hundred elk sized animals. ------------------ | |||
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| <Frank> |
To me it sounds like writer X might be Steve Timm. I have a friend that went to africa to hunt all the plains game, was his first time over there. He took his 280AI with 160 partitions, many told him not enough gun. He killed every animal with one shot each. The kudo was shot at 380yrds took 5 steps and collasped. He felt it was more than enough gun for all plains game. His shots were not all perfectly placed. The eland was shot quartering away. Shot was 300yrds animal went 50 ft and dropped. One of his guides shoots a 6mm for all plains game,said if you can shoot its enough gun. Hey if a guy kills these animals with one shot kills, who is anyone to say the gun is to small. My friend also thinks the 140 nosler BT kills the plains game faster than the heavier bullets do. I know that darrel hollands a highly respected gunsmith and shooter killed all african plains game with a 7-08AI with 140grn nosler BTs. I have spoke to him several times he believes the 7mm 140 nosler BT is the best elk bullet to use in that caliber. They say shot placement is everything, So if a man can kill small varmints out to 500 to 600 yards shooting a big game animal is much easier, He will be able to place the shot. Polar bears have been killed by 22 cal more than any other round (this is crazy to me)Hell 17 cal have killed grizzly bears. The 7X57 killed to many elephants to count, many have said that round was not a big game killer to. I don't know about the 120BT in the 7-08AI but if you have not tried it don't knock it. It is not my intent to stir things up or discredit anyone here, it is just my view. | ||
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| <Mats> |
quote: IMO, a game animal should have holes in both sides after being shot at. A varmint should just have "a" hole, or pit - your fist should be able to fit in it, or between the pieces... I don't agree with this writer - I think he's asking for failure. -- Mats [This message has been edited by Mats (edited 04-12-2001).] | ||
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| one of us |
Frank, I don't see where anyone said the guns to small, if fact, quite the contrary.. But using a varmint bullet on elk, or anything short of varmints, just ain't in the ingenious catagory....That bullet will fail one day on a broadside shot and I have seen that very bullet blow up on the ribcage of a Mule deer, on one ocassion..It killed the deer, but a 8" entrance hole indicates to me that the bullet is a little light in the shorts....and so is this gun scribe. ------------------ | |||
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| <sure-shot> |
After studying a few more of Gunwriter-X's more recent articles, I have come to the conclusion that he suffers from "glass shoulder syndrome". This is not meant as a put down, as everyone has their limits on recoil. In Gunwriter-X's latest article he mentions the 243win. has a bit too much recoil for second follow up shots on coyotes, obviously he is ultra-sensitive to recoil. As for Gunwriter-X's use of the 7mm 120 grain Nosler BT on Elk I wish him luck... he's going to need it! Sure-shot {Not so sure about this one!} | ||
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One of Us |
Firstly, the 120 gr B-Tip is NOT a varmint bullet. Secondly, the reason he doesn't like the 243 for varmints is because of muzzle jump, not recoil sensitivity. Thirdly, a friend of mine, member of this good forum and hunter of more experience than most weighing in here is a life-long friend of Timm's... he tells me Steve is the real deal... not just another rag writer. I've watched elk put down with 6mm's. In hayfields it works, as would a 120 b-tip on broadside elk. No, it would not be my first choice, nor would I use it in the timber. It will do the job however. Brad Amundson | |||
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| one of us |
Ain't never seen a moose or an elk but I've shot a lot of deer with 120gr ballistic tips out of a 6.5x55 some of which did not through and through penetrate. Never noticed no difference in how quickly they died but sure as hell were hard to track with no blood trail. ENERGY never killed anything. Penetration and tissue damage did. | |||
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| <jayloar> |
I've shot mulies, whitetails and pronghorn antelope with 7mm Nosler BT's in 120 and 140 grains. My observations have been that they are unbeatable as long as you don't hit bone at high velocity. I've had many instantaneous lightning stike kills. This year I hit a rib bone on a broadside pronghorn antelope. I was using the 140 gr with a muzzle velocity of 3200fps from a 7mag. The antelope was 75 yards away. The bullet did not exit. No shoulder bones were touched. It looked like an explosion occurred at the entry point. I could stick my entire fist into the entry wound. The antelope died instantly but I was disappointed with the penetration. I've shot other animals at lower velocities and struck rib bones and have had satisfactory penetration. I've also shot a whitetail straight on at 10 yards with a 140 gr Nosler BT at 3100fps from a 280 Imp. The bullet entered the the front of the neck and almost pentrated the entire length of the animal. The bullet was recovered at the tender loin. No bones were struck and the bullet was a perfect mushroom with 55% weight retention. The 120gr and 140gr 7mm Nosler BT's are great bullets but you better not hit bone at high velocities. | ||
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| <Jordan> |
I know I am going the wrong direction here, but this 7mm-08 IMp. 40 degree has caught my interest. How much velocity increase over a 7mm-08 can on expect in a short barrel----say 20-22 inches? Will it feed reliably from a magazine? Any one know the answer to those questions? Regards, Jordan P.S. As to the writer's identity, I am guessing Layne Simpson. | ||
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one of us |
Since no hunter is such a perfect shot that he can guarantee a shot that does not hit bone, why would anyone choose to use a varmint type bullet (that is what the light-for-caliber BTs are, see the Nolser manual)? I think you can take elk cleanly w/ a 7-08, but I would b using a 150/160gr NP. This discussion seems to come up often about calibers for hunting big game. Remeber, it's not "can you kill w/ it" but is it the best/ethical tool for the job. I think a 120gr BT is not (JMO). | |||
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| <sure-shot> |
Reply for Jordan, I just received two rebarreled Rem 700 short actions from Pac-Nor in 7mm08AI 40 degree shoulders. Barrel lengths are 22.5" and 23" using 2.5 contours. I like to do my own pillar bedding and stock work as a hobby so I figure around late June or July we will start load development with the 7mm08AI. I'll post the results. sure-shot P.S There was a thread on this cartridge in the reloading section about a month ago if I'm not mistaken. | ||
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| <leo> |
That writer needs to stick to neck shots only for good results. | ||
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