i have no experience with semi's. but i need one for a boat gun, how is the reliability of either one, i think the rem. in stainless would be great becasue of the salt. probably in .270? doesnt have to be much of a long range sniper. used mostly for small deer and possibly black bear, any thoughts?

alaskadude
The conditions you describe will be hard on the rifle. If I wanted a semi-auto I would think about a "military" design.
Either an H&K 91 or a Springfield M1-A. I have quite a bit of experience with both and they are accurate and reliable. The M1-A is probably the easiest to find. The short barreled scout type is very handy. They shoot 308 factory hunting loads with no problems.
They are easy to field strip and keep rust free.
They are much handier with 10 round magazines and 5 rounders are avialable if that is a legal requirement for a hunting rifle in your state.
They cost a little more than your listed choices, but in the long run I think you would get better service from one of the military type rifles.

BAR without a doubt. Where I used to live we all shot BARs. Most started out with Remingtons because they are cheaper. Not only less expensive, cheaper. Those who did not start with the BAR switched after a few jams. Given your usage, there is no way in hell I would use a Remington 7400. If you myst have a stainless gun and don't want the BAR, get a bolt action. The 7400 craps out quickly when it is less than dinner plate clean.

Alaska, I've used a BAR composite stalker for over 10 years now and I haven't had any trouble with reliability issues. It is my go to gun for slipping around in crappy weather. It gets neglected a lot, for one of my guns at least, and no rust or whatever. As far as feeding or operating it has never missed. It is pretty darned accurate to-- I shoot factory ammo (Hornady Light Magnum) usually in .270 Win and it does great. Just a vote for the BAR I guess.
Regards and Happy Holidays! Don.

What Marc said........ Without a doubt the Bar is the better of the two.
Having said that I also echo the thoughts of others here, the Marine enviroment is harsh on guns.
my thought would be to find a reasonable condition/used Bar and either refinish it yourself or get a gunsmith to. Parkerizing or Serecote or somesuch finish would be good but you would still have to keep an eye on it to monitor/headoff rusting. Ask your local gunsmith what Bore oil he recomends for that application.

My experience with a .270 7400 was terrible. The thing would shoot a shotgun pattern if you shot enough rounds through it. My brother has a BAR in .308 that has been an exceptional shooter since he got it.

By the way, he just called me and said he killed an 18" 182lb eight point this morning. Lucky joker.

I can't vouch for the Rem. 7400, but I've had a Rem. 742 in .308 Win., since about 1971. I don't pay any special attention to cleaning it, although I do clean it after a long session at the range.



It will shoot 1 1/2" groups consistently @ 100 yards, with both Rem. 150 & 180 grains Core-Lokt bullets. I have an old Weaver Vari 4.5 scope on it. I have never had but one jam and that was after about the fifth shot from a Cloyer eight round magazine. I've never jammed it using the factory magazines.



I've killed one elk, several mule deer, and one Black bear with it.



Just my experiences but I have a couple of friends who have 742s and they've not had problems with theirs, either. I am of the opinion that problems arise mainly from damaged or dirty magazines, more than the design of the rifle. I will say that I keep the five Rem. factory magazines surgically clean. But then, I do that also with my magazines I use in my self defense pistol, a Colt's Lightweight Commander .45 ACP. (I believe in "perfect" magazines.)



BTW, I've seen people jam BARs, too.



Just my opinion. L.W.

BAR without a doubt.

And something else to consider: a SHORT action with a big bullet, like a 308 and a 180 grain bullet. The action has less travel because it's not a standard long action.

I had a 308 BAR years ago and it never ever jammed.

The recommendation is not all mine personally. It was advice given to me years ago by one of my friend's father. He managed a huge gun store in my home town. I took his advice and never had a problem.

BAR, SHORT action.

BAR, no question.
THe other thing about them is you can get them all the way up to .338winmag, and they work.

I have a fair amount of experience with them and they are exceptionally accurate for a "sporting" gas gun.
they also run flawlessly.
AS for military rifles, the M1A in the 18" would be a great choice for everything. They are extremely rugged and reliable. THey will shoot well enough to handle anything a .270 would take and they can throw bigger heavier bullets if you handload.

thanks for the advice on the guns. it sounds like the bar has a lot of fans. i just came across a "camo" model on gunsamerica that says it has a tough finish on it for all weather. i hunt with a browning gold camo in the salt and it does pretty well. only problem is i dont see it on their website to see what calibers its available in? any ideas?

Dude,

If ya gotta go with a semi-auto, the BAR for sure but for a boat gun, dont overlook the s.s., composite, Remington pump rifle. With quick reloading extra clips (can even buy a 10 round clip) and in 30-06 with 220 grain quality ammo in it, it'll stay with you, cover most situations and it's pretty much maint free.

Sorry if this came out as a double post, I somehow lost the 1st reply to you.

Alaska, I know that all BAR's have been available in .308, and as Doc suggested a short action has some good arguments, so a .308 is a good call. I will say my .270 has been flawless for a long time and as I said, in some crappy conditions too. I have found this caliber versatile enough for me, but there are certainly more bullet choices in .308--If your figuring on getting this rifle sighted in with one load and just 'letting it be' than maybe that isn't as important.

Good Luck --Don

I have to support the vote for a BAR as I have a ShortTrac .308 on order.

Danny Boy

I also go along with N E 450. Sprigfield's SOCOM M1-A1. Short barrel with muzzle brake, synthetic stock and removable magazine. I don't think you could find anything better. While tha BAR and Rem are good rifles the do not have the durability that a boat rifle is going to need and the battle proven design of the M1 does have that going for it. IMHO

I believe another short action the BAR comes in is the 300 WSM.

BAR w/o a doubt.

I've had two Remington semis (742 & 7400), both would jam if not "spick and span" clean.

The BAR is a pretty accurate and dependable rifle.

Good Luck!

Reloader

I am not going to be much help here. My Remington 7400,
in .270 Win, never failed to cycle properly. My beef
with it was how finicky it was on loads, and if the
forearm screw was not tightened exactly the same, after
cleaning, the accuracy dropped off.

I did trade that gun, for a new BAR Lightweight Stalker,
in .308 Win. So far, I have not had a failure to cycle,
it is very accurate, and with the aluminum receiver,
would be somewhat resistent to corrosion. It is a great
little carry rifle, that handles nasty weather. I will
say that I wish Browning would go to a more conventional
box magazine, similar to the style in the Remington
7400/7600, but that is about the only negative I have
found with the LW BAR.

Squeeze

P.S. For a rough duty gun, I might consider an AR-10(.308
Win), over the BAR. I like the suggestions for the
M1A Scout, too. But the M1A price is a little high for
a gun that is going to get beat up, banging around
a boat.

Not trying to be a smart aleck at all.. I am just wondering about a couple items.
what is a boat gun ? is this kinda like a truck gun, one that spends its life riding around in the gun rack instead of living in the gun case in the house all cleaned up & shiny?

Why do you "have to have" a semi? personal preference or need?

Mike

i should have been more clear, sorry

my idea of a boat gun is one that stays on the boat. it will be used for deer hunting (possibly black bear). up here we are allowed 5 deer in most parts, they are typically on the beach in the winter time. once you are on shore and spook them the forest is very thick and you probabaly wont see them again. we also have about 4.5 hr of day light now to hunt. so i want to get a gun that may drop an extra deer or two while i would be rolling the bolt with another. the weather is normally raining and cruddy. the salt water is very harsh on guns so it needs to have a great finish or needs to be treated with an aftermarket coating. hope that make it clearer.

If your shots will be 100yuds or under for deer i think the ruger mini thirty would be a good rifle near salt water. I know of some folks who keep them on there boats down in Florida for protection when they go out for a few days and the 7.62x39 will drop deer at close range with no problem.

Sorry to answer your question the Browning gets my vote I have one in .338 and it hasn't failed me yet.

That's a condition for a militarygun with a good finish such as epoxy and chromed bore or a stainless steel gun.

ANOTHER CHOICE if you don't want to drop the $$$$ on an M1A would be to look for a used servicable M1 garand.
A SERIOUSLY proven platform that if you don't care about the "who made it when and do the parts match" can still be had for around $500.
Loads from CLIPS not magazines so no spring storage concerns and
HEY,
if it was good enough for Quint and Chief Brody to use as a boat gun in JAWS, it must be tough enough

here's the BAR in the 20" synthetic stocked "Stalker"



http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=002B&cat_id=031&type_id=008

Hey Fish30114, I've never heard of anyone using the Hornady Light Mag loading in a BAR before, mind if I ask a few questions?

Did you have to turn the gas check down?

Anything odd? How much farther does it throw the brass?

I'm trying to get an idea about just how much extra wear this causes on a BAR since Browning says not to use it.

I have a 30/06 Stalker but I'm thinking about swapping it for the new .308 ShortStroke because it's almost a pound lighter. I've been running loads and ballistic charts for the .308 but that Light Mag loading would beat my goals easily, IF it won't damage the gun.