Big Nate
I used to shoot High Power with a couple of animal Vets. They told me that the "bitenest" dog was a Chow. Both of them stated they would have the owner "install" a muzzle guard before they would even look at the chow.

They said if the bite of the chow was as strong as the bite of a pit, there would not be a Vet. left alive.

Doc , I wished I could. It happened pretty fast and these damn pits were all over my dogs in an instant. They flat out charged and attacked. I didnt see them till the last secound. I would have hit my dog too. My first concern was getting my dogs away from those damn pits. My male was pushed down in a ravene by the big pitbull with its jaws around his neck from the back.

You have good nerves, Doc. I would have busted the dogs, no problem. Up where I've been mule deer hunting the last few years, we get an occasional wild dog or dog that has lost its way while hunting with its owner (usually hound dogs). I've been told by the older guys not to take chances and bust any critter that charges. We also have bears, mountain lions, bobcats, etc. After two seasons in the area, I no longer hunt without my .45 Glock 21 or my .44 Redhawk. Anything that "launches" my way will be in for a world of hurt. No sense in taking chances in an unpredictable situation.

I love dogs too, BTW. I dislike stupid owners, though. I’ve seen more than a few during the last few bear seasons too. In Dec 2004, while bear hunting, we found this lost hound dog in the snow. I'm always wary to approach such animals for fear of rabies and God knows what else, but I could not resist.


She was nothing but skin and bones, and very sick.


The very dumb owner told me (in very broken English) that he had just got the dog and was using her for bear hunting. He had never hunted with a dog before, much less bear hunted before. I think he was just looking for gall bladders (he sort of let that slip). I asked why he was not using a radio collar as hound dogs tend to run off once they get a scent (and who knows what scent the dog had, either), but he had not even heard of a radio collar before. My buddy and I took her to the SPCA to get checked out. She did check out OK, but the SPCA called the owner too, told him where she was, and he came to pick her up. I was heart broken. We were going to keep her, and only had one day left to wait. I also heard that a nice farm family had been waiting for her to get "paroled" which would have been better for her I'm sure. But, that is how it goes. I hope the dog is still alive. And not lunch!

The dog's collar:
–stupid owner

I'm sorry Doc, I didn't intend to hijack your thread. I guess you know what to expect next year . . .

Doc

Uou definitely get the self restraint award. Those dogs are going to seriously hurt or kill someone someday. The most alarming thing was how they approached you. One coming right at you while the other one flanked you. That is hunting behavior and is not some attempt to drive someone off their turf.

Yes, dogs are terrirotial, but these dogs think their territory is entire county. That is not domestic dog territorial, that is on the wild side territorial.

If you have large dogs you have a responsibility to thoroughly train them. And breeders have a responsibility to cull our overly aggressive pups. Unfortunately, there are more than a few breeders out there who breed for aggressiveness. And even more owners out there who pay zero attention to training.

I have large dogs - English Mastiffs - and they have are well trained and behaved. As pups, I was sure that they did not exhibit any aggressive behavior before we got them. And still, when someone they don't know comes into the house, I keep a close eye on them. And make sure I am between them and our guests, at least until they accept the guests. They are dogs, not people.

A nippy 10 pound dog is one thing, but a 150 pound or 200 pound dog can kill.

And I will not be bit either. I had my leg ripped to pieces when I was 6 years old by a neighbors dog. And because it took a good sized chunk out (and most likely swallowed it) the leg took months to heal. I love dogs, but I am not about to give them a free bite - I already have.

That happended to me with the pit bull story in my above post. One was coming straight at me and the other one was trying to flank me. Although the one that flanked did seen agressive it didn't appear to be as aggressive as the other one. I think the mean one may of provoked the other one a lot.

Many more people are killed, maimed and very badly mutilated by domestic dogs than by wild animals.

Most people are unfortunately willing or able to teach manners to their dog, especially if he/she has an attitude problem.

You owe it to your family, friends and visitors to have your neighbour bring these beasts under control.

Inform the Police. If this does not work, well, I have heared some bad dogs just get poisoned...

Just to make it clear, I am NOT a crat person but grew up with and love dogs.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
The most alarming thing was how they approached you. One coming right at you while the other one flanked you. That is hunting behavior and is not some attempt to drive someone off their turf.

That's exactly right, and that is what the officer said too. This is "pack" behavior. That is why I went into detail on that...glad you picked up on it.

the tough part of it is that many states now have felony cruelty to animals laws. so if joe meth head's (insert cuddly chow, pit, etc.,) gets in your space aggressively and owner lies or the district attorney is a moron about what happens, you have a felony charge on your hands.

Before I retired I frequently had to check some of our facilities which were basically little enclaves of what we call "open space" here in Los Angeles.....areas that have basically been kept natural within the urban area....some are quite large which suprises many. These places can become fairly dangerous if you're not careful --- hobo cities pop up and they're favorite spots for people to drop off unwanted pets and a lot of these are dogs that have become too large and agressive for their owners to handle.

The boss was a little uneasy when he found out I carried a side-arm on these trips until the day he was with me when we had just stepped out of the truck when a small pack of dogs came out of the brush running for the truck....we made it inside with the closest dog about 10 feet away. They circled the truck for awhile and left --- after that he never questioned what I carried.

I lost count of the number of dogs I "controlled" over 5 or 6 years but I kept a scoped .22LR behind the seat in the truck and I carried a cocked & locked 1911 whenever I was out of the truck.....usually if I shot one the rest would take off but on one occassion I shot 4 with the last one coming after a reload sitting on the 1st stout branch I came to on my way up a tree.

The sad thing is it's not all were "attack" dogs as I've seen poodles of all sizes, lots of mutts, and even a full hunting breeds (never saw a lab) which I suspect came from a pet store.

Each and every pit bull in this country should be killed immediately. Period. ABSOLUTELY no reason to own one. They are un predictable and dangerous.

A couple of years before I retired, one of our LEO's was trying to make contact with a transient that had set up a camp on the District. The guy was not there, but kept a pit bull chained next to his tent. The LEO drove his truck up close to the tent to make a visual inspection, after hailing the camp and getting no answer. The pit bull bit the side wall out of his tire. He backed down the road quite a way before he got out to change the tire.

Imagine what a bite that will take the sidewall out of a light truck tire would do to a human.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Anyone ever been attacked by a dog?

A year or so ago, we had a visitation from a pit bull and a smaller ankle-biter. My wife told me we had a problem, and I went outside to see. The two had escaped from a fenced yard and gone out for a walk, and decided that they'd defend our back yard as their own. I understand a dog defending its territory, just have a problem when it's mine and not his.

Hmmm...I got a broom and started to run them off, which didn't work very well. I had almost decided to get a shovel and mash up the pit bull as best I could ( no guarantees against a dog this size ), when a lady in a car stopped at the end of the driveway and called the dogs. I didn't spend a lot of time in conversation, but gathered that she'd been left with the dogs while their owner was out of town, and they'd gotten out. If I'd had a rifle at hand, I'd have shot them both when they wouldn't heed a polite request backed up with a broom ( the ankle-biter did try to bite me, interestingly enough, while the pit bull was satisfied with growling and snarling and scaring the piss out of me ). The uncertainty of taking them on with a bludgeon was all that prevented a fight.

I live on a farm, and city folks who have tired of their precious pets "drop off" dogs all the time. On numerous occassions I have watched as a car came to a stop, let out 1 or more dogs, and drove off as the dogs tried their best to catch up. Dogs find their way to a house where there is activity and food. Some also wander from other farms to mine. If I know the owner, I give him a call and he "almost" always comes and gets his dog. For all others, I shoot them immediately. Few things are worse than watching a dog slowly starve due to abandonment, and I already have 4 strays which my wife adopted. Almost every week I see a stray searching for something to eat on the side of the road. Days later, the dog is either hit by a vehicle or just vanishes from the radar screen. Years ago I tried to get close enough to strays with a collar so I could contact the owner. Got bit twice for my trouble. I don't make that mistake any more. If a dog is wandering free, it is the owners fault!

Years ago I was hunting blacktails on a ranch just outside a small No. California town. There had been rumors of a pack of "wild" dogs around this property that had been killing stock. To make a long story short, around 8:30 in the morning, I was walking up an old logging road back to the jeep when a pack of around 8 to 10 dogs came out of the brush, growing and snarling at me and started to try and surround me. A large mongrel appeared to be leader and was very aggressive and the whold group was advancing. I was hunting with an '06, Remington 742 and when they advanced to about 8 feet, I had had enough. I shot the leader and another dog and the rest scattered. Later that morning, my buddy who owned the ranch found a young heffer killed about 150 yards away. Dogs can be more dangerous than wolves when they go native and start packing up....

The first house I ever owned wasn't in the best neighbor hood. There was a pitt-lab looking dog that roamed around loose. He had already growled and threatened others before he did the same to me and my little girl while I walked with her as she was riding her tricycle up and down the sidewalk. That night after supper I laid a slice of pizza on the sidewalk and waited on the porch with my pump pellet gun. Took him about 10 minutes to show up for his supper though he never got to eat. I put one right behind his shoulder. The next morning I walked down the alley to see what all the dogs were barking about (I had a pretty good idea) & there he was dead-ern-hell. I felt kinda bad about it but It was better him than my daughter.

How far was it from the sidewalk to your porch? Pellet guns can be powerful.

A few weeks ago, I was walking my Golden Retriever and my new prized chocolate lab pup. I saw a neighbor I knew and we walked over to say hi. As soon as we got to the driveway I looked behind me and saw a huge Rot stalking up behind me. The owners were 100 yards or so behind the dog.
As soon as I saw it coming, I stuck the dogs behind me. The Rot walked up and was trying to pry between my knees to get to the lab pup. Then my GR started growling. DAMN!!
I held everything apart until the owner came up and grabbed the Rot.
If you have a dangerous dog, then by God you better keep control of it at all times!! I have a shepard that is a great guard dog. I spent the time to socialize her with people and animals, so she is not aggresive at all.
I love Rot's but they are not the dog for everyone....you have to spend time (preferably as a pup) to teach them how to react with people and animals. Most I have been around love people but will kill another animal in a second.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Golden:
The first house I ever owned wasn't in the best neighbor hood. There was a pitt-lab looking dog that roamed around loose. He had already growled and threatened others before he did the same to me and my little girl while I walked with her as she was riding her tricycle up and down the sidewalk. That night after supper I laid a slice of pizza on the sidewalk and waited on the porch with my pump pellet gun. Took him about 10 minutes to show up for his supper though he never got to eat. I put one right behind his shoulder. The next morning I walked down the alley to see what all the dogs were barking about (I had a pretty good idea) & there he was dead-ern-hell. I felt kinda bad about it but It was better him than my daughter.

I wouldn't feel bad about it...had the owner cared about that dog, it wouldn't be running the streets on its own.

When I was in high school and my first few years of college I used to read the water meters for our rural water distric. There were 68 meters on the route and a couple of the houses had dogs that I never really fully trusted. There was one house that had a Rot. Every month I pulled up to the house he would come out into the driveway and raise hell. As long as I faced him he never really got that close probably about 25-30 yards. Well, one day he snuck up behind me. I guess he came around from the other side of my truck. He came from behind and bite me on the leg. Luckily, he didn't get me and only got my pants. The only thing I had in my hands besides a pencil and notebook was a brass key just a little bigger then your hand to open the lids on the meters. I hit that damn dog so hard on the head I damn near knocked him out. When I hit him, his knees instantly buckled and he let out a squeal/whimper. He kinda got back to his feet but was walking like he had been hitting the bottle since noon. He staggered about 10-15 feet and collapsed. I thought I killed him. I finished reading the meter and got back into my truck and the dog was back sitting on his rump. I drove off thinking oh well. The next month I returned to the house and the dog was still there. However, from then on he would never get off the porch. I guess he learned his lesson with the meter reader!

Another story involves my little house dog a min pin. My little dog would never hurt anyone. He thought about biting me one day and did about 3.5 sommersaults with a nice backhand. He never thought of doing it again. While I was in grad school, I bought a trailer house in a trailer park. Two doors down a guy had a mixed mut. One day I noticed my little dog had a couple marks on his flanks that looked like bite marks. I never thought much about it. A few months later I was in my bedroom and my little dog was on his lease in the back yard. I heard him squelling and went rushing out the door to see what was wrong. As I hit the porch steps I saw the neighbors dog trying to get at my dog, which had crawled under the porch. He had bit my dog and opened about a 4 inch gash just behind his left front leg. I took my dog to the vet and got him fixed. After returning from the vet, I approached the neighbor and told him what happened. He agreed to pay for the bills and everything was ok.

A couple weeks later a friend and I were out in the front yard hitting some practice golf balls and drinking a couple beers. All of a sudden, that damn dog came from around my truck and tried to bite my friend, who swung his golf club at the dog but unfortunately missed.

About 3 months after that I was home with back spasms. There was about 12 inches of snow on the ground and I had shoveled off a place for my dog to go the bathroom. I was standing there in my underware watching my dog use the bathroom when the neighbor's dog came racing around the corner of the house and grabbed my dog and started shaking him like a rag dog. I raced out the front door (keep in mind in my underware and nothing else with a back injury into about 12-14 inches of snow). On my way off the porch I grabbed the shovel that was leaning against the house. I made contact with the dog and she dropped mine. Blood was everywhere!!! I got my little dog back into the house and the other dog ran back towards his home. I took my dog to the vet at Okla. State were he spent 6 days in ICU. The bills came to over $3800; however, my officemate's wife (same guy who was almost bit with the golf club) was a vet student and was able to get all but $1200 taken off bill as 'training exercises'. I called the cops, animal control, etc. and the only thing I got was that I needed to fill out a report. I went back to talk to the owner again and he saw the injuries to my dog. He agreed to pay me $100 a month until the balance of the vet bills were paid. Well, that lasted all of about 2 months and then he refused to pay and more. I moved a couple months after that; however, I have to say Ozzy and I got our revenge. On our way out of town, I nice little hotdog with a little something extra was flipped out the truck. That dog never took three steps. I know it was the right thing to do because there were always little kids riding their bikes and playing in the various yards. It could have very easily been one of them as it could have been me and Ozzy.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
How far was it from the sidewalk to your porch? Pellet guns can be powerful.

Doc, I'd say about 20 feet. It was a small house in an old neighbor hood. I think the pellet went in at least 1 lung. I pumped it about 100 times.

I was bow hunting on my property a few years back.The dog pond had closed down and of all places they dumped most of the dogs on our farm.There must have been about 14 Rocks running loose.We shot ever dog we saw cause they had gone wild.The totally decimated our deer there.Any way I go to get in my stand and 7 or 8 of them came up to me I had to go up the tres as fast as I could.I yelled at my dad who brought the 223 in the car that we had brought for dogs.He ran them off and shot one.Later that year my dad had one attack him and he shot it with the 300 mag point plank.I got attacked again with nothing but my 22 pistol and I shot one but it jammed the first time ever that time.I had to shoot dogs all season that year instead od deer .My 338 would suck the bark out of them.I hate racks I shoot every loose one I see on my farm.It ruined our hunting for a long time.I did get very good shooting dogs running good practice.My retarded sister then go one as a pet.It attacked a lady and tore the muscles off the bone.The only good rock is a dead one in my book .I hate those dobermians and chow and Akitas they are all better dead that running loose.My dad got attacked by neighbors pit bull too.I forgot those.I say any dog running loose and coming at you is fair game.I quit bow hunting after that attack.

Anybody that does not condone the shooting of those dogs or any other in that situation is nuts. I don't LOVE dogs, but I like them alot. I LOVE people, especially my family. What happens when those kinds of dogs finally decide to bite and what if it happens to a child/elderly, that is defenseless and may not escape serious injury. Most of the times the dogs bluff, but sometimes they are real and the results can be devastating. Knowing this, I would consider myself responsible if I did not do my duty and take them out when the situation was presented. My uncle when a young boy was scratched on the face by a neighbor's cat, my grandma grabbed a pistol walked over to the neighbors yard and killed the cat, nothing was ever made of it. I have seen how tenacious a jack russell can hold onto another dog and would stomp the shit out of one or shoot it if it ever grabbed my 1yr old. I have known and seen a friend grow up with horrible scars on his face/head because the Akita would not let go of his head/face despite being beaten with a baseball bat while it shook him around like a rag doll. We need to stop caring less about the dogs and more about the people and other property they can destroy. Now I have to go pet my terrier and cool down, she is 15yrs/deaf/blind and still hanging on, but I will not put her down until she is suffering too much. Let a dog get on my property and go after my family and it is history, come jail time, or law suit, it is the right thing to do to defend all of those that might be attacked.

Deke.

Funny you mention that Jack Russell. When I was in college, one of the guys in my study group had one of those dogs. One afternoon, I was going to his house to do some studying. Never had been there before. As I approached the door, his Jack Russell was getting all retarded, biting at the screen, etc. He said to stop where I was on the stairs. He picked her up and carried her to me so she could smell me. I asked what would happen if one of his kids happened to open the door before he got there. Answer: Oh, she would have sunk her teeth into you until I could get her off of you. She definitely would attack anyone other than family until she gets to know you.

I was uncomfortable the whole time I was there because that little shit kept smelling at my legs, and every time I shifted or if I got up to use the restroom, she went nuts. I finally left after an hour. Told my friend I'm just not getting anything done with his little bitch of a dog. He offered to put her in another room, but by this time, I wasn't in the mood to stay there.

We have a neighbor that lives in the culdisac behind us that used to own one of those dogs. As I recall, it had a few "incidents" with other neighbors and many threatened to "kill the little SOB," because our neighborhood is LOADED with small children. I haven't seen that dog in about a year.

In Ohio, certain breeds are, under the law, defined as "viscious dogs" whether or not they have bitten someone. Pit bulls are one of the breeds and it's possible (but I don't know for sure) that Rottweilers are another. At least to have a Pit bull in Ohio, one is legally (though few do) required to have something like a $100,000 bond on the animal. If a dog bites someone in Ohio, it automatically becomes a viscious dog (even if rightfully defending its property as happened to the dog of a nurse I'm aquainted with).

In Ohio, most of the dog laws seem to be against the dog owner so a police report and perhaps a discussion of the situation with the local animal control officer could help solve the dog problem. My understanding is that an owner's failure to control a viscious dog can result in felony charges.

We have counties here in Ohio that prohibit owning a pit bull or any other "bull" terrier, like the American Staffordshire dog, which is bulkier and can be just as aggressive.

My office manager informed me that you cannot own a dog like this in Warren county, or several others.

Personally with roughly 400+ breeds of dogs, I don't see why anyone would want such an animal. But that's my opinion.

I have a friend that drove water trucks in this town for three or four years. A lot of residences have a water tank and and sewer tank that gets pumped at regular intervals. The water truck he drove had a 3000 gal tank with a 3" hose....100 gal and minute of water.

Most dogs he came into contact with were easily bribed, he was very partial to using bacon. Big mean Rots that would come charging up to him when they saw him with a happy bark and the tail a wagging....they loved bacon. 95% of the dogs loved this guy...he played with them and gave them treats.
Those other 5% either just barked or acted mean. The one BIG advantage that he had....a hose that pumped 100 gals a minute of 45 degree water. Several dogs acted like they were gonna come up and take a bite...all got bathed, sometimes in sub zero temps. Most stayed much farther away after a dousing. I don't think he ever had to hit one twice with water.

In Alaska we have some screwy laws for dogs...I know a guy that got tore up on his own porch by a pit bull and the pit is still alive...in a just world that dog would be gone and the owners still paying for the guys medical bills(they didn't pay a dime). At the same time I know people who have shot dogs in self defense in circumstances much less nerve wracking then the original senario and all they got was a stern talking to by the police chief about discharging a firearm within city limits. Go figure.

-phil

quote:

These two Rotts were at full stride, just like in a movie, top speed with no deceleration in sight.

I froze (and then said out loud, OH SHIT),

Honestly guys, I thought to myself, this crap's really going down, me against 2 Rotts

So here I am, and just like you hear in the movies, everything seemed to slow down. They kept closing the distance, 60 yards, 50 yards, 40, 30, now we're down to feet,

I snipped Doc's quote.

Doc, others have said you kept your cool. I say you lost your cool and should have shot once you 'knew' "This shyt is really going down". I think you put your life in danger needlessly.

But, that's my opinion. Glad the situation worked out for you.

Thirty years ago I lived just outside a small Idaho town. Wifey walked to the grocery store in town and a wild dog pack scared her on the way home. She told me about it - I called the local sheriff. Sheriff came in the Sheriff's Bronco and picked me and my .22 mag rifle up and we went dog hunting. I shot 6 out of the passenger window of the Sheriff's Bronco in about an hour, the rest scattered or hid. Sheriff said to give him a shout if we saw any more, the evening was kinda fun.

Gotta love small town justice, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Rider:

Doc, others have said you kept your cool. I say you lost your cool and should have shot once you 'knew' "This shyt is really going down". I think you put your life in danger needlessly.

Well, I didn't have a crystal ball to predict the outcome. So I never "knew" what might happen. My life sure might have been in danger, but as I previously wrote, the dog only needed to move another few feet, and BOOM.

I've lost my cool before, I definitely didn't in this case. I had already decided to shoot once they reached a landmark. Fortunately for them, they didn't cross that line.

Just out of curiosity, what would be the best way to get rid of dangerous dogs without shooting them?

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:
Just out of curiosity, what would be the best way to get rid of dangerous dogs without shooting them?

ground up glass in a hamburger patty
poison
bow & arrow
and the list goes on

Flatten a sponge while it dries out with some flavoring on it. Cut dried sponge into cubes. Cubes can also be decorated with peanutbutter. Cubes should be fed as a snack with plenty of water... or so I've been told.

Not my first choice but quiet. Nate

Usually an F150 at roughly 40mph can do the job.

I'd have pulled the trigger a lot further out if only to give me
time to ready myself to use the rifle as a club before shifting to the knife...
Besides with a M-L there is some small doubt that the rifle will actually fire...
(Ignore this if you were carrying a modern inline, I hunt with a flinter)

I have twice had 3-1/2lb of pressure on a 4lb trigger
and not fired, but in the case of both of those dogs they aren't an issue, one owner moved, the other dog annoyed someone else who had a 12ga Rem 1100 handy...

BTW, if you find yourself in a situation like that again, AND you are forced to shoot, best plan is to shoot one dog then ATTACK the other, if you charge YOU have the initative, never give an enemy (two legs or four) the choice of how the engagement is to begin... if nothing else your advancing on the dog will mess up it's timing...

AllanD

This sort of thing seems to be an increasing problem. I dunno if there really are more problems, or we just hear about it more often.

There is a lot of good advice and observations in this thread, along with a lot of idiocy. I volunteer at a dog shelter, and have thousands of hours of hands-on experience with dogs including pits, rotties, shepherds, chows, etc.

I currently have a Staffie mix in my home (not my dog, long story). The longer I work there the more I love dogs and hate people. So now that you know where I'm coming from, let me comment on some of the issues and situations that have been raised.

On Doc's original post: Doc, you should have shot. In defensive handgun training there's the Tueller Drill, which shows folks that the threshold for stopping an assailant with a contact weapon (i.e. knife, club, etc) is 21 feet minimum. Dogs are faster than humans, plus you were dealing with two assailants. Sheer luck the owner called them off in time. If and when the law arrives, the key phrase is "I feared for my life."

Getting stuck with a felony beef sucks, but not as bad as losing use of an arm or leg (a deep puncture that cuts a nerve...). I'm a city boy, but an awful lot of country boys recommend the 3 S method. I'm beginning to think that it also might apply in urban areas too; from what I hear, neighborhoods with nocturnal gunplay can't even get the cops to roll for a "shots fired" call in some cities.

Don Slater's post is on the right button; the problem is that we either curtail freedoms due to "what ifs" or not even bother to hold people accountable. If the owner had to take a serious beating every time their dog bit, there wouldn't be very many bad dogs. Of course, I'd also like to see the breeders held responsible for breeding dangerous dogs; its a defective product, sue 'em and take their house, bank accounts etc. Take away the profit margin of the backyard breeders who create 50% of the problem dogs and the puppy mills who create another 45%.

On calling the authorities, filing reports etc; its a good thing to try, but don't base your personal security stance on the assumption that the authorities are going to do anything. Bad dogs are usually owned by bad people, and bad people have a lifetime of experience avoiding accountability.

If you're out in the woods and see a motley pack of dogs come at you, especially more than 3 dogs, be ready to shoot or climb a tree if you're not armed. Pack instinct is nothing to fool with, and its actually worse with the hunting breeds. If you see a pack of dogs of the same breed, i.e. 5 or 6 beagles or foxhounds running together, I believe the risk is much lower as they're out for rabbits/coons/deer or whatever.

On the dangers of specific breeds; too many people are looking for the easy out of amking life safer by outlawing X, whatever X is. The problem is that X keeps changing. 30 years ago it was shepherds that got popular with the lowlifes, and the puppy mills and backyard breeders ruined that gene pool. Inherited diseases, unpredictable behavior injected into the genome. 20 years ago it was dobermans, same outcome. 10 years ago rotties, same outcome. Now its pits, same outcome will happen. Outlawing pits won't solve the problem, because the lowlifes will just move on to another breed; it looks like we're now on the mastiff-derived breeds like Cane Corso, Fila Brasiliero, Dogo Argentino, etc. And you open up a legal can of worms with Breed Specific Laws (BSLs); what percentage is legal/illegal? Who determines breed? Are the assclowns who can't tell the difference between a bullet and a cartridge going to understand the difference between a boxer and a pit mix? In my not very humble opinion, nope. BSLs are like the Roman circus; something to keep the unwashed masses appeased while accomplishing nothing. Ironically, according to the insurance people one of the top ten problem breeds is golden retrievers; again, they got really popular, the backyard breeders and puppy mills hosed the gene pool, now there are zillions of goldens out there with physical and mental problems.

If you're going to get upset about a dog that hates/kills cats/goats/whatever, I assume you also hate housecats. Because housecats kill far more wildlife than dogs, particularly songbirds.

The thing about territorial behavior in dogs is that they can be pretty stupid about where their territory ends. I've had problems in my neighborhood with dogs who thought their territory was a two-block radius. Forgiveness is great, but it leads to innocent people getting bit. If a dog gets loose and doesn't threaten anybody, to me that's really bad and the owner ought to be sentenced to shoveling up dead dogs on the roadside for a weekend to learn their lesson. If a dog gets loose and threatens somebody, I'd like to see them do a month in jail. If the dog bites, it gets put down and the owner gets a year or two on the county farm. Unless they have prior felonies, in which case 5 years in a medium security prison.

prof242's situation is not uncommon. I'm not a lawyer but I believe a countersuit would have helped. I was in a similar situation once, redneck neighbors used my backyard to store their visiting friend's dobie temporarily as it would attack their dobie. I came home from a skiing trip and find an aggressive dog in my yard, and of course neither animal control nor the cops would come out. I had Glock in hand and was but a few feet from the backyard gate when they came and got their dog. I hate lowlife rednecks.

On keeping your dog in your truck bed; please don't do that. Nothing sucks worse than watching a dog screaming in pain on the side of the road. Use a dog box securely fixed to the truck, or better yet keep your dog in the cab and use a harness with seatbelt attachment. Costs less than a couple of boxes of premium bullets, if you shop around. Ask your vet.

Cockers? Oh my, a classic case of a fine breed ruined by bad breeding.

Chows? Infamous. I've only dealt with a couple of purebred chows, a little squirrelly but not dangerous. Many chow mixes, mostly good dogs. The one problem chow mix I work with doesn't look the least bit like a chow, more like a spaniel on steroids. Inner dog is wonderful, but wrapped in a lifetime of problems. Needless to say, lowlife redneck owners, abuse and neglect from day one, they whole nine yards. Chihuahuas are kinda notorious for antisocial behavior. There are good chihuahuas out there, but on a percentage basis I think there are more nasty chihuahuas than any other breed. I'm not joking. Again, breeding for appearance rather than personality or behavior.

Sadly, the story Teat Hound told is very common. Nearly a third of the dogs at our shelter are hounds. Stupid effin' rednecks, both white and black. Many only feed their dogs once a week, pregnant bitches have their pups and the pups aren't taken to the vet, they're invariably laden with hook and whipworm, sometimes tapeworm, on occasion heartworm. And covered with ticks, usually skinny and often skeletal.

The rural drop-off thing that LBGuy describes is also very common around here. Its hard not to be cynical about mankind when it happens; 90% of the time the owners are condemning the dog to a brief life of fear, hunger, disease, and violent death. How can that be better than a short drive to the pound and a quick jab with a needle?

Oh yeah, Jack Russells. A once good breed that is being ruined because of the actor dog on the show "Frazier". Looks cute and acts funny, and is small, so everybody wants one. What they don't know is that Jacks are hunting terriers, very hardheaded and with an aggressive, dominant personality. NOT for the inexperienced, and not for folks with small children.

There are several breeds that are lumped into the generic "pit bull" category; American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, English Staffordshire Terrier, etc. Bull Terriers are sometimes included. The reason why good people want pits and pit mixes is that the good ones are wonderful dogs. Friendly, loving, smart, playful, obedient, athletic, the whole nine yards. 40 years ago that's what you got with a pit, unless you bought one from the dogfighting people. Now, there are so many aholes breeding pits in their backyard that maybe 30-50% of the gene pool is ruined, and of course the lowlifes crank out puppies way faster than the AKC types, so its going to get worse. But our shelter has adopted out several pits and they've done great; a good dog is a good dog, a bad dog is a bad dog. A few bad dogs can be turned around, but it just takes so much time and effort and there are just too many unwanted dogs out there.

Problem with poisoning dangerous dogs is that you can kill the wrong dog. The best way to get rid of dangerous dogs is to shoot the owner, but I guess that's frowned on these days.

The sad thing about personally dealing with abused/neglected/abandoned dogs is that most of the time, the owner(s) have children. If you are afraid of the dogs, just imagine how the kids are going to turn out.

Sorry to unload on you guys, but this topic pushed my buttons, both as a dog lover and an outdoorsman.

This is going to sound gruff, so I apologize in advance, but I believe what I'll say to be true.
Shoot the dogs. Both of them.
No, I'm not a dog lover, but I dearly love my pets, and when my son/ black lab/ bird dog died last April, I sobbed for weeks. His replacement is sleeping in my bed as I write this.
Having said that, I do understand that dogs are animals, not human, and "My fault, your fault, nobodies fault," if their out of line in the fashion mentioned in the first post, they should be shot on contact. Perhaps the owner of the Rotts' having seen the results of her poor dog training would think twice in the future about letting her pets run loose.
Tonight and every night while out training my new dog, I carry a handgun, and I will not think twice about killing a stray dog that harrases either my pup or myself.
God it hurts, but animals are replaceable, body parts, sons, and daughters are not.

+1 chouchtater!!! Exelent post!!!

My bride and I live in a little town outside of Davenport IA. For some reason, it is "cool" here to own Rotts, Pinchers, and Pitt Bulls. One guy down the street likes to take his Rott out for a walk without a leash.

One day, he strolls by "walking" his dog. I look over and the Rott is staring at my wife like it was thinking of going after her. I asked the gentleman to please keep his animal on a leash, and he got pretty annoyed and said that he is a "good" owner and his dog would never attack anyone.

A few days later another "good owner" got mauled when her Rott turned on her and her kid. I mentioned this to the gentleman, and haven't seen the Rott since. He now has a nice lab though.

Some breeds are naturally agressive, and should not be allowed to roam free. In your situation, I would have shot the dog.

Wow! CouchTater hit the nail on the head so to speak. Looks like what we have here is a case of bad genetics(involving both the mutts and their owners)

Possibly on the dogs, definitely on the owners. If the lowlife woman involved in Doc's kerfuffle has kids, its a pretty good bet that they have been or will be in the system. When I see these irresponsible people with their kids, I can't help but think to myself "those kids are members of FFA: Future Felons of America."

At the shelter we are having our annual frenzy of people looking for "a Christmas puppy". Here's how it works;
Dec 25; puppy brought home, kids delighted
Jan 5; kids bored, puppy bored, puppy chewing up shoes/belts/furniture/carpet
Jan 15; puppy tied up out back, lonely, frustrated, starts barking
Jan 16; neighbors start calling law enforcement on noise complaints, after 3rd rollout responding officer starts talking about fines
Jan 25; puppy dumped at shelter

quote:

Originally posted by CouchTater:

At the shelter we are having our annual frenzy of people looking for "a Christmas puppy". Here's how it works;
Dec 25; puppy brought home, kids delighted
Jan 5; kids bored, puppy bored, puppy chewing up shoes/belts/furniture/carpet
Jan 15; puppy tied up out back, lonely, frustrated, starts barking
Jan 16; neighbors start calling law enforcement on noise complaints, after 3rd rollout responding officer starts talking about fines
Jan 25; puppy dumped at shelter

A guy at the lumber store I shop at saw my choco lab pup in the truck and asked me if I wanted to trade my pup for a black lab pup. NO! "why do you want to trade?" I asked him. He explained that his puppy grew up too fast, and that he didn't have room in the house they were renting, for the dog.
His boss later told me that he explained to the guy what you get with a lab. They are high energy, large dogs. The guy said he knew all that. What a freakin idiot! I told him he needs a poodle and he said "no, I like big dogs"