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found these links on another forum pretty interesting http://www.gunsandhunting.com/bulletshootout.html http://www.gunsandhunting.com/Extraordinary.html | ||
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the TSX does show a long penetration and very "clean" wound. But look at the cavity volume of the Hornady. that means alot of temporary tissue displacement and a massive perm. crush cavity. some of that temp strech is not going to snap back. for whitetails the TSX may be better if you are forced to shoot one in the ham and out the front shoulder but whats it gonna do on a broadside shot when it slideds in and out between the ribs. that and the recovered weight only second to the TSX says the hornady bullet acts like a ballistic tip, penetrates like a partition and retains weight like a non lead. i like that hornady. I'd also bet that w/ metal prices going were they are the TSX is gonna price itself out of existance. | |||
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i ahve shot two deer with interbonds out of a 308 win 150gr and they were instant drops with quarter sized exit on one and the other I weighed it at 70% weight retention...that was shot lengthwise @ 20 yards (around 2800fps impact velocity) they just arent as accurate as i'd like them to be THe 4 deer I killed with accubonds last year were not bang flops but all exited and dies quickly plus it shoots great. As far as the Tipped TSX, I think its looks interesting. It will be longer with a different shape. I wonder how what the consensus will be on accuracy? ALso, is Barnes admitting a problem with the TSX by designing this bullet? Looks like they wanted more consistent expansion.... | |||
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also, on that second article, look at the 4 pics showing expansion at different velocities. the third pic is on the TSX it an impact of 1958 FPS. that bullet didnt even begin to expand. reating weight of 129.3 and, what 2mm of expansion? why didnt the show expansion between that low 1950 FPS and that high 2811? why not show a pic of expansion for 30-06 or 308 at 100-200 yard impact velocities. | |||
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i was thinking the same thing like one @ 2600 and one @ 2300 or so | |||
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exactly. why show me impact velocity for a 300 weatherby and a 30-30. wheres the beef? | |||
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I looked at both and the test confirmed why I like Nosler Partitions for hunting. That bullet provided a wide wound channel and deep penetration. It wasn't first in either catagorey but I'd say it provided the best balance of both worlds in these tests. I have never had a problem getting the Partition to shoot well either. I've only used the Partition in two calibers and weights .270 150 grain and .30-06 200 grain. Both have performed flawlessly on bear and elk for me. I've used the .270 for most of my elk taken and the .30-06 for my only bear, I don't see much of a need to try a different hunting bullet. I like the fact that Partitions only need 1800 fps to work. I'm sure the bullet would work better than that Barnes at 1900 fps. I agree with the price on Barnes has kept me from trying any of them, Partitions are expensive enough for my taste. | |||
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I have a little different take. Barnes saw (1)need to compete with the Nosler eTip;(2) Barnes needed a solid copper to compete in the upcoming battle in lead free markets; (3)price. The TSX was none of the above. I load the MRX in 150 gr 30-06 and TSX 168 gr 30-06 as well as in 200 gr FB in 300 H&H. I have recently acquired the 180 gr eTip for a 30-06 or 300 WM but have yet to load them. First animal taken with the TSX was a 600+lb gemsbok at 300 yards with the above mentioned 300 H&H, 200 gr TSX FB. Shot hit him high but broke his back (rather be lucky than good on these days). My guess is the TSX is on its way out the Barnes back door just as have so many others in the recent past. As usual just my $0.02. | |||
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I disagree with the Barnes competing with Nosler. The E-Tip, IMO, was in response to Barnes and the future lead issues. The TSX is great. The MRX never should have been, and the TTSX is better because it will address the non expansion issue. I have never had a problem, but it is documented. If I can not get a TTSX to shoot in my rifle, I will try the E-Tip. I like monometal bullets and the performance they give me. I am a little concerned about the explosive performance that the tipped bullets seem to have. I process all of my own meat, and prefer to not deal with the damage that some bullets leave. The E-Tip vs TTSX thing is all going to come down to price point and individual rifle performance. | |||
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I have had the Hornadys 165 BTSP penetrate the complete length of a deer cross ways at over 150 yards and then not exit on a front head shot. they always preform to the task for me and i have been shooting the same bulllet for a long time. i think 10 years or so. my steyr shoots them sub MOA and the rest of my guns dont seem to have a problem either. when i start loading for the 7x64 i know were ill start. and it wont be w/ an expensive all copper or a partition. dead is dead in my book. for the deer around here the partitions i have shot (257) seemed to zip right through. | |||
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The TTSX was designed to address the non-expansion debate. I use the word debate because it is not documented. You hear stories but no facts or autopsies. The one I have seen documented on here was a 30 cal fired out of a rifle with not enough twist so the bullet tumbled, o.e. in my opinion. I have killed over 100 animals with 3 different calibers using TSXs with 0 failures and all animals were autopsied. The TTSX will be nice but for those of you dumping your TSXs for them pm me and I will gladly take them off your hands. Perry | |||
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Perry, I agree with you for the most part. I DO believe the TSX is an excellent hunting bullet. You appear to be the ideal person to speak on their success with your obviously thorough experience. However, there have been a few documented cases of them not expanding/keyholing/etc. I always take them with a grain of salt because we don't know the circumstances surrounding the reports. I have a strong feeling that many of them were shot by people with perhaps not the most experience or correct equipment. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot any X or TSX yet, so I can't offer a firsthand opinion. I've seen a ton of them that work exactly as advertised and result in very dead animals right on the spot. HOWEVER.... The fact that Barnes has redesigned them twice from their original iteration leaves me puzzled. People first complained about the fouling and pressure issues with the original, so the TSX was introduced. That bullet, in what I'm sure is no small coincidence, addressed those issues. IIRC, Barnes' stance on the original X was that there were no pressure or fouling issues, but they issued a fix for them regardless. Now we have the expansion conundrum with the TSX and, surprise, they release the TTSX that promises to snuff the current issues and initiate perfect expansion every time. I'm not admonishing the X bullet or Barnes with this statement, I just want to get the story straight. I've got some TSX's on the loading bench right now, so we'll see what happens. All this makes you think about the fact the Partition has been around for decades without any significant revision. It's just interesting food for thought. _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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click here for yet another opinion on the things. it seems to me that the TSX bullets have demonstrated chaotic and unpredictable performance couple with questionable accuracy. the controversy surrounding them supports the conclusion that they cause just as many or more problems than they claim to solve. i, for one, see no reason to buy, load or use them when there are so many proven alternatives, including the plain, old PSP, which, in my opinion, still is the most reliable choice in the majority of situations, especially when using standard (non-magnum) chamberings. | |||
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Clayman: I have shot the TSX bullets in the past and I for one am glad that Barnes has the desire to make a great bullet better. I think it is in best interest for the customers (us) that they keep improving. But that is only my Opinion. BTW my 300Win Mag Remington doesn’t like Partitions unless you call a 4 inch group at 100 yards off a bench rest good. I so much wanted to use the Partitions but I was sure disappointed in there accuracy in my rifle. On a good side my friends Winchester 300 Short Mag loves them go figure. Swede --------------------------------------------------------- NRA Life Member | |||
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You need your meds checked. ASAP. | |||
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when some folks are talking about penciling through, and others are talking about guts blown all over the prairie, i would call that chaotic performance. further, i've never once seen either of those problems with PSPs out of standard non-magnum cartridges. these are my experiences and opinions. if yours vary, then have at it. check meds? nice try, but next time, simply say that you disagree. | |||
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Please tell us all about your TSX experience. | |||
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The problem I have with people talking about TSXs "penciling" through is that most of them dont recover the animal. They dont tell you this up front but when pressed the truth comes out. The TSX is no cure for poor shooting so dont bla,e the arrow when its the indian. I think one of the biggest problems with the original X is that it wasn't that accurate. Barnes addressed that and fixed it pretty good. The TSX is just a great bullet with 99% satisfaction from the shooters. Perry | |||
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Swede, You make some great points, and as I stated in my earlier post, I'm not writing off the Barnes bullets as a whole just because of a few documented cases where they did not perform as advertised. I do believe they are an excellent bullet; it still ceases to amaze me how people can discuss "bullet failure" when the animal is dead!  My only issue is that when they do not perform as they are intended, the result is game that is not killed in the way it was intended, i.e. D.R.T. I was just using the Partition as an example, but nearly any other bullet could be substituted in its place (TBBC, NF, SAF, etc.). I believe Barnes is committed to delivering the best product possible, but I find their design changes a little suspect given the reported issues in the field. To be quite honest, I sincerely want them to perform as advertised 100% of the time because it is nearly impossible to deform them even at the highest velocities. You can't say that with any other bullet. I guess I'll have to take into account everyone's experiences and couple them with my own to determine a truly accurate view of the TSX._____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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perry - this is precisely why i posted the link in my first post on this topic. | |||
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Nothing then. Why am I not suprised. | |||
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I have experience with warious Barnes TSXs in 6mm Rem, 257 Wby, 30/06, 7mm Rem, 7mm Wby, 300 Win, 300 Wby, 30-378 Wby. Game taken elk, bear, caribou, moose and deer. Everyting to date has tipped over, no problems. This year decided to try Accubonds, just to try something new--- no other reason. Losded the 225s in a 338 RUM and the 180s in a 300 Wby. Game taken three elk, mule deer and Dall sheep. Experienced no problems, great bullet. NRA Life Member since 1976 philny1@zoominternet.net 877 485-6270 Visa/MC accepted , plus 3% We have to save the Earth, only planet with beer!! "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Not from what I have seen.Myself and my hunting partners have tried the tsx in several rifles,and in every case accuracy was very good.Like every other bullet,you do need to find the right powder and seating depth for the best accuracy.As far as performance on game,not one bullet has failed to expand,or to penetrate. | |||
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Saw another big game animal take the TSX tumble this morning. Caliber entrance, quarter size exit, soup in between. During the aftermath, the guy doing the shooting never mentioned the desire for a PSP, despite the dollar he just so foolishly wasted. I'll be sure to make the suggestion the next time I see him. | |||
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I do admit though, giving the buck a bullet thing a chuckle as I strolled over to the defunct beast wearing $600 worth of boots, $175 in capilene underwear, $150 North Face pants, $220 worth of layered fleece, then chuckled some more as I lay my $2500 rifle across my $400 pack containing $400 worth of Gore-Tex, $350 in knives, and $4500 worth of optical devices. Funny how man thinks sometimes. | |||
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I now have well over 50 "kills" with Barnes X and mostly TSX bullets, in calibers from .270 through .375. Everything from North american Antelope, deer, elk and moose, To African impala, zebra, giraffe, buffalo, and too many others to list. This is by far the best bullet I have used, and I switched from Nosler Partitions (at least primarily). Barnes has a winning bullet, and they won't be throwing out the TSX anytime soon. I can't see any reason to use the MRX or even a TTSX, but consumers are a funny lot, as evidenced by many posts on this thread. Appartantly, if the animal isn't "DRT", then it was the bullets fault! Even if it succumbs quickly, is the inference. We ask an awful lot out of bullets these days, and the damnest thing is that they generally deliver and maybe even do more! I have yet to see any "documented" failure of TSX's that isn't a story telling in the making.... Thanks, Barnes. Bill | |||
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Man were is all this weird stuff coming from. This year I killed 4 animals of different species with a Barnes TSX, 3 of them quickly expired with a clean one shot kill and the 4th was kinda of a crazy situation invloving a 7 ft Black bear that my son shot not so good and I had to knock it down. On the confirmed good shots it accounted for 3 quickly and cleany killed animals with wound channels that were awesome to say the least. Scrambled lungs, penetrated shoulders. The gun was a 300WSM shooting 165 grain Factory loaded Federal TSX's. I am in love with this combo and it shoots lights out. Lots of speculation here from some I reckon. Accuracy of TSX for 3 shots @ 100 yards  Animal #1  Animal #2  Animal #3  Animal #4  The shot on the Cow impressed me the most, just behind the shoulder, absolutely scrambled the lungs and broke a rib on the way out. Little hole going in, golf ball size hole coming out. None of the three clanly hit animals went more than 50 yards. So I am no expert of TSX's like some of you may be but my experience with them for the first time this year was, that I'll damm sure use them from now on! | |||
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.........I have 350 gr TSX show that they expanded on a sitka black tail spike buck,s 1st neck vertibra .and a 250 gr TSX ,in 9.3 cal.expand on a 1200 lb estimated weight steer,s 1 st vertibra ..both exited ,both were doing around 2600 fps at impact.. niether ruined more than 2 lbs of meat ...both were 1 shot kills..like the origanal X bullets and the blue X bullets , the 3x works 100 % for me .. mayby we just get better Barnes bullets in Alaska...  .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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I am using the 150 gr TSX in my 30-06 this year. It is the first year that I have used it. In preparation for the season I was working up loads and using H4350. Sevaral loads were pretty good accuracy but the load that was about 2870 fps amazed me for accuracy. Four in one ragged hole and one about a third of an inch away. I am not a bench rest shooter and my eyes are not what they used to be, but wow. I had read several threads here about questionable expansion so I had my worries about penciling through. I have killed three deer using that bullet and performance could not have been better. Two were bangflops and the other took off like a scalded dog. I shot again and instant bangflop. I did lose a deer using them. I took a hasty shot at a deer crossing a logging road at 250 yards. I had to make a quick decision and either get a round in the air or not. I was aiming for a heart shot without taking into account the fact that I had a 100 yard zero and there was 5 or so inches of drop. I also didn't know there was a bit of brush between me and it. No blood no hair. Apparently no foul. The TSX did it's job. I just missed. I am thrilled with the TSX's performance on game. I will be using them from now on in that rifle. I have three hunting buddies that have used them since they came out and love the performance also. No failures so far. Your milage may vary. Good hunting. "D" Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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D Hunter, I'm really not intending to pick on you, and I think the full paragraph explains things pretty well. It seems you missed the deer, for any of a variety of reasons, as we all just miss sometimes. Somebody is bound to read the statement that "You lost a deer using TSX's" and translate that as bullet failure. I know that isn't what you intended. By the same logic, I have lost a lot of deer using Nosler Partitions in the past - simply because I missed! It seems that most cases of "failure" with the TSX have little to do with the bullet. Again, no offense inteded, but it doesn't matter what bullet you load if it doesn't get to the intended target. Now if someone would just invent that bullet that actually hits where I want it too every time.... Bill | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Barnes TIPPED TSX Report and 308 150 cal bullet test
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