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Could have shot an elk, or could I?
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This was opening weekend of elk in WA. Unlike most years,I was into the herd before sunrise Saturday morning. The timber was just to thick to get a good look at any of the animals though.

In the afternoon, I hooked around to a beaver pond just under the hill I was at in the morning. After setting up on the edge of the pond, I could hear what sounded like one elk working through the timber. When I saw the animal through a small opening, I was 90% certain that it was a cow. After listening to the lone animal work around the edge of the pond, it came to another opening. This time, I saw antlers. The body was exposed, but the head was low in the brush. I spotted 3pts on one side throught the binos. That makes it legal. I had a clear shot, but didn't want to put the rifle on it or shoot until I could be 100% certain that it was a legal bull. He ducked back into the timber. 30 minutes, he came to another opening. This time his head was down and he was facing almost directly away from me. Watching through the binos, he put his head up. This time I counted a clear 5 points on each side. I traded the binos for the rifle scope, but the only shot was a hard quartering, nearly facing directly away, shot. The range was only 165yds lasered.

The rifle is a 338-06 with 210gr Partitions at 2750fps. I wouldn't take the shot. Fist of all, I wont take raking shots at the tail end of an animal that isn't wounded. I don't want one that bad. Second, I just don't think that the load was up to that sort of shot.

I did see the same 5pt bull in the same spot again Sunday morning. This time though, he was more in the open presenting a broadside shot. But there were 5 other animals with him, 2 spikes and 3 cows. At any given time there was at least one animal either partially in front of or behind him.

Everyone I've told this story to has been sure to tell me what a fool I am for not taking the shot. Playing it through in my mind though, I never actually had a shot. The first two times I saw the animal, I couldn't be 100% certain that it was legal. Then on the third try, the only shot was basically a ham shot. Then on Sunday I would have risked a pass through hitting another animal.

Would any of you have taken the shot? I've been accused of being too picky about my shots. Everyone says that's why I have come back empty handed every year. But is it worth it to take a questionable shot? Or am I really being unrealistic by wating for the perfect shot opportunity?


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Posts: 258 | Location: washington | Registered: 03 August 2003Reply With Quote
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You were the man behind the gun, it was your call and you have to live with it. Don't second guess yourself. There will be other hunts.
I think you did the right thing.


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Posts: 665 | Location: Western NY- Steuben County | Registered: 02 February 2007Reply With Quote
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Andy;

I love elk hunting and eating elk steaks, while any of us can make a bad shot, a risky shot is still a risky shot, what ever the reason. All the species we hunt deserve our respect and a clean shot.

Congratulations, your a real hunter, you would be welcome in my elk camp any time.

Best regards.
 
Posts: 231 | Location: Central Oregon | Registered: 08 September 2006Reply With Quote
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One NEVER has to REGRET the shot they did not take!

Just an opinion, but I am proud to see you passed on a less than good shot.



Don't limit your challenges . . .
Challenge your limits


 
Posts: 4271 | Location: TN USA | Registered: 17 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Good choice!
Too many times people try to turn "no shot" into a "shot". Sometimes they take and make a risky shot and other times they blunder it horribly at the animals expense.
Many people try to "up" there chances at making these "iffy" shots by using a "more than enough gun" which they typically can't shoot worth a shit cuz' its expensive to shoot and uncomfortable as well.
Andy I think you made a good choice, don't force an Elk sighting into a lost opportunity. Your rifle and load were probably capable if the bullet were placed just behind that rib and angle the bullet through the chest heading toward the neck, but there are so many variables what if you weren't quite steady enough or if the elk took a step just as you touched it off?, all risky and best to wait it out. If the elk were previously wounded then your job is to keep shooting until his legs are in the air regardless of the perfect angle or not. When the other elk were present it was very wise to wait till they were all clear. Last weekend my son and I had a similar situation with a small legal bull and 3 cows that bull never got in the clear and my son (13 years old) said he never had a shot bull never stepped clear, I was proud of him for not trying to turn "no shot" into a "shot" and making a huge error at the cost of an elk.
Good for you Andy, your chance will come just keep putting yourself in those situations and you'll have your shot.
 
Posts: 5604 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: 31 October 2005Reply With Quote
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You did the right thing by not shooting, you can can always what if it to death.


Life member NRA
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Posts: 192 | Location: Ga | Registered: 21 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Sounds like you didn't have a shot - at least not by my standards.

Brent
PS. Shipping FedEx Ground will cause you more aggravation than two flat tires and dead cell phone.


When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996
 
Posts: 2257 | Location: Where I've bought resident tags:MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA | Registered: 30 January 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by collegekidandy: Everyone says that's why I have come back empty handed every year. But is it worth it to take a questionable shot? Or am I really being unrealistic by wating for the perfect shot opportunity?


I've walked away from any number of shots because of the sort of problems you describe, don't regret doing so one bit. There's always tomorrow.


TomP

Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right.

Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906)
 
Posts: 14808 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the kind words and support everyone. Even my wife is giving me a hard time about this one though. Then again, she also said that she wouldn't elk meat if I did bring one home.

quote:
Originally posted by Brent:
Sounds like you didn't have a shot - at least not by my standards.

Brent
PS. Shipping FedEx Ground will cause you more aggravation than two flat tires and dead cell phone.


I won't argue that. I've lost more time, sleep, blood, and sanity to that company than anything else in my life. That said, I can thank them for everything from the shoes on my kids' feet to the Hawkeye Alaskan that I just bought. I have found that most bad experiences with any shipping company can be traced to a driver the individual has contact with. Move on over the the 98409 zip code in Tacoma, WA and I'll treat you right.


Shipping FedEx Ground keeps a small business running.

"I'm not late, I'm early for tomorrow."
 
Posts: 258 | Location: washington | Registered: 03 August 2003Reply With Quote
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Dude, in my case, I gotta disagree. The ONLY thing that goes right with USPS is the drive is a great guy and knocks himself out for us.

As for Fed Ex ground - I spent 4 hrs and 180 miles chasing around a $4k rifle yesterday morning. I did not get it. It will probably go back to Wyoming tomorrow and I will have to pay again to have it shipped. This time USPS.

I would not be surprised that it would be different if you were working this stretch, but the reality of it all but ruined my weekend.

Brent


When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996
 
Posts: 2257 | Location: Where I've bought resident tags:MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA | Registered: 30 January 2002Reply With Quote
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You may or may not know this, but if you call and file a complaint the driver will be charged a penalty for it. Depending on the circumstances a complaint can cost the driver anywhere from $25-$200. This won't make you the driver's favorite customer, and I can assure you he WILL remember, but he will certainly do things different next time.


Shipping FedEx Ground keeps a small business running.

"I'm not late, I'm early for tomorrow."
 
Posts: 258 | Location: washington | Registered: 03 August 2003Reply With Quote
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I would rather hunt with you than the idots who blast away at anything with horns,at any distance, angle or obstruction.


Perception is reality
regardless the truth!

Stupid people should not breed

DRSS
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Posts: 923 | Location: Phx Az and the Hills of Ohio | Registered: 13 March 2006Reply With Quote
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andy - you made a mature, ethical decision. you'd be welcome in my hunting camp any time.
 
Posts: 51246 | Location: Chinook, Montana | Registered: 01 January 2004Reply With Quote
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This is one of those yes and no questions.

IMHO if you always wait for the perfect shot, you'll eat tag soup more often than not. I'm not saying shoot an animal in the rear end, but if you'll only take broadside shots at animals standing still with no brush or other animals around them you are going to miss opportunities at many animals.

I don't care what anyone says, I'll take shots through holes in brush, at moving animals, at animals with other animals in the herd around them as long as none are directly behind. If you are confident and skilled with your equipment you have to make things happen, everything in life is not easy and there are seldom the "perfect" situations. If I waited for the "perfect" shot, I probably wouldn't harvest near the animals I do.

Usually a trophy only shows himself once, you have to capitalize on the situation.

Good Luck

Reloader
 
Posts: 4146 | Location: North Louisiana | Registered: 18 February 2004Reply With Quote
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I have to agree that it was probably better not to take the rear shot. Not that it is unethical but because of the amount of meat that would be lost. As far as your gun not being up the the task, I would have to disagree on that one. A 210 grain .338 partition is more than up to the task. 210 partitions will usually go stem to stern of a elk so my quess is if you would have shot the elk probably would not have went anywhere and more than likly dropped at the shot. A rear shot with that type of load is very effective but also very messy.
 
Posts: 655 | Location: SW Montana | Registered: 28 December 2000Reply With Quote
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I would not have a problem taking the shot if the angle was proper to break the spine in the withers or over the hips. Even an Elk can not go too far with only two front legs. If I was uncertain of making the shot-- like you, I would have passed.
 
Posts: 5727 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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I would have probably made the same choices you did. Last year at opener I shot a small 6x6 from a herd that contained some HUGE bulls. Since I had waited for my friend to get to shooting position on the ridge while staying out of sight, I wasted my opportunity to pick out the bull of my choice. When it came time to shoot, the herd was moving away and were about to run outright. My bull presented a clean standing neck shot, I saw it was a 6x6, and that was it. My friend shot a bigger 6x6 with other elk behind it. Luckily, his round did not penetrate fully. Mine did. I have regrets when I picture the monster bulls running away (it is tough to forget), but I know I would make the same decisions again. It is alot more rewarding to have my friend with his bull, and I with mine, than one bigger bull.

I have never taken a going away shot that was not in the neck. I cannot bring myself to do it. However, I brought up that very topic here a couple of yrs ago and was roundly chastised for my critisism of the "Texas Heart Shot" even by some people whom I have alot of respect for (ie Atkinson). Since then I have reconsidered it as an option, but still have not found the need or desire. I'm not a real trophy hunter, but if it was a once-in-a-lifetime bull, who knows? I trust the experience of some on here to believe that the going away shot can be a valid, ethical, killing shot. I guess it is completely up to the individual shooter.

As for the shot with other animals behind yours--that is just Russian roulette. However, I have not lost many (any?) animals to this problem. Usually a shot will present itself with timing/precise shooting.

Second guessing can be a b--, but you are better off wondering what could have been then wondering what to do with your second elk or your spike elk (on that note, I've gotten really good at judging elk anter size at a glance--there are a couple of tricks that will allow you to know in an instant).

Congrats on doing alot right! You have had a better season than many of mine!!
 
Posts: 159 | Location: Bozeman, MT | Registered: 11 December 2002Reply With Quote
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You did the right thing.
YOU weren't comfortable with the shot. PERIOD.

I was not in your shoes, so there is no way for me to armchair quarterback you.

I agree with your decision 100%.
 
Posts: 2034 | Location: Black Mining Hills of Dakota | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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If you aren't comfortable with the shot, don't take it.

If you don't like being uncomfortable with shots because the animals are partially obscured, etc, the answer is to practice a bunch from improvised positions and with improvised targets.

Being comfortable isn't just defined by the shot opportunity, it's also defined by the shooter's skill and experience. JMO, Dutch.


Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog.
 
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000Reply With Quote
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I've passed up shots when unsure of angle distance or wind - nobody can make the decision for you.....but from your description I might also elect to take him at the base of the neck through the spine. If you can hit that shot it is fatal, typically anchoring the animal and allowing another finisher if necessary.

If you have an angle that will break the off side shoulder it is always a good shot to me. As to wasting meat, which is the bigger waste 50 lbs of bloodshot best cuts you don't get to eat or 400+ lbs to a car, predator or carrion eater if no other hunter takes him.

If you aren't confident hitting your hand at 165 yards with a good hunting rest quickly than you limit yourself to very good angles with plenty of time......or as was suggested tag soup.
 
Posts: 299 | Location: California | Registered: 10 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Good job!

Already enough "poke and hope" and "spray and pray" hunters in the woods. Be glad you ain't one of them.
 
Posts: 1287 | Registered: 11 January 2007Reply With Quote
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Never apologize for doing the right thing. Keep hunting, there will be other shots.
 
Posts: 10503 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
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I once spent all day following up a zebra after I took a shot that I didn't feel comfortable with. Fortunately, hours later, I was able to finish it off. Don't ever regret passing on a shot that doesn't feel right. There is nothing worse than knowing that you wounded an animal after taking a shot that you knew you shouldn't take. s**T happens, I can live with that, deliberately creating the s**T that just happened, that I can't live with.

TerryR
 
Posts: 1903 | Location: Greensburg, Pa. | Registered: 09 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I know exactly how you feel now, and have felt that way many times. You did the right thing. By the way don't doubt that rifle.

I took one of my sons on a stalk with me last year, and we were within probably 25 yards or so of a nice 4x, but the angle of the ridge prevented seeing anything more than head and horns and that was looking through the grass. I passed that up hoping to get a chance to stand up and shoot over the top of the junk. It didn't happen and my son was laying right there with me. I really wanted him to see the fruits of stalking one not just riding around shooting from the jeep like "everyone else".
Two things though. First, if I had messed up that shot I would have taught him something negative. Second, this year when he was with me we walked up on a young buck that was surprised to see us. I made a shot he will forever remember. Not because of the tremendous distance , wind, etc., but with it quartering away, and looking back over it's back, I put one shot through the heart. He got to see first hand the results of a good hit. Much better than teaching him excuses for a bad hit.

I think you did the right thing, and will continue to do so because it's part of what you believe in.
 
Posts: 2376 | Location: Idaho Panhandle | Registered: 27 November 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
andy - you made a mature, ethical decision. you'd be welcome in my hunting camp any time.


Woa!... Screw the Elk hunt... I want to meet that Baitshop girl... Eer.. Soldier Red Face


MopaneMike
 
Posts: 1112 | Location: Southern California USA | Registered: 21 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Good Call! If YOU are not comfortable with the shot for any reason don't take it.
I only see one thing that troubles me about this whole thread though.

"Then again, she also said that she wouldn't elk meat if I did bring one home."

You need to get a handle on this kind of thing. Let it keep on and the next thing you know you'll be heading out the door to go hunting or fishing or off on some other manly pursuit and "Honey will you fix the roof", or some other inconsequential thing, "before you go?". She'll say this with full expectation that you'll pass on the moose tag you've managed to draw after 15 years, or that you'll blow off the once in a lifetime chance to catch Marlin out of Westport.

Hope you got back on the elk.
 
Posts: 107 | Location: Wet side | Registered: 19 February 2003Reply With Quote
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Time for me to chip in. I say GREAT JOB. I don't think anyone should squeeze the trigger if there is even a flicker of doubt. For myself when I have put a bad shot on an animal I feel terrible about the wasted meat, let alone losing one by wounding it. I would feel awful if I shot a trophy or any animal and couldn't recover it, thinking it was out there suffering. You made the right decision.


Windage and elevation, Mrs. Langdon, windage and elevation...
 
Posts: 944 | Location: michigan | Registered: 16 December 2004Reply With Quote
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Hats off to you. You are a true sportsman.
Here's wishing you successful hunt next year.
Sounded like a fine hunt. I consider just being in the presence of game a successful hunt.


"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Hamlet III/ii

 
Posts: 423 | Location: Eastern Washington State | Registered: 16 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Well, I managed to get back out today. I didn't see the same bull, but I did find a fresh gut pile, probably from the day before. Hopefully the big bull is still out there. I'll try for him again on Sunday.

As much as I would have loved to get a shot at that bull, you've all reaffirmed my decision not to shoot. Even if I don't see him again, it was nice to see that there are still a few good bulls left in the area. Considering the number of hunters in this area it was good just to see any animals.


Shipping FedEx Ground keeps a small business running.

"I'm not late, I'm early for tomorrow."
 
Posts: 258 | Location: washington | Registered: 03 August 2003Reply With Quote
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If you had been carrying that Savage 300 winnie I sold you I would have recommended taking a shot.


As a general rule, people are nuts!
spinksranch.com
 
Posts: 2099 | Location: Missouri, USA | Registered: 02 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I had the Savage out with me the previous weekend for deer. It comes with me when I expect longer shots.

Somebody did end up getting the bull that I saw. It was a local who went out mid-week. The guy shot the bull in the same place I saw it. He was an older gentleman in his mid 70's. This was going to be his last season elk hunting. If somebody else was going to get that bull, I can't think of anyone better.

There's always next year. And by then I should have my Hawkeye Alaskan 375 Ruger up and running. I still wouldn't have taken the shot, even with the 375. But there'd be no question about whether or not the caliber was up to the job.


Shipping FedEx Ground keeps a small business running.

"I'm not late, I'm early for tomorrow."
 
Posts: 258 | Location: washington | Registered: 03 August 2003Reply With Quote
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Andy,
Great choice on being an ethical hunter. I know the feeling about leaving an animal, and also of having someone else shoot the animal that you had hunted. Your attitude toward the old hunter who shot "your" elk shows a very responsible attitude and phenominal sportsmanship. Five stars for that, sir!
Good hunting, and straight shooting,
Graham
 
Posts: 264 | Location: Northern BC, Canada | Registered: 28 November 2005Reply With Quote
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