Generally, I shoot a 270 at deer and hogs . From time to time, I change bullets. Of late, I have been shooting Federal Premiums loaded with Barnes Triple Shocks. I know I am going to get criticized for this but I think they SUCK!

I have shot a few deer and maybe 20 hogs with them . I do not like the results, not in the least. The first few times it was my kids. I vividly remember watching my youngest son shoot a buck. I watched through binos. It looked like a great hit to me. Blood? I saw none. Not a spec . Regardless I found the deer in short order. I wondered how a deer could be hit this way and not have a spec of blood.

My own personal problems with the TSS was first noticed on 1/1/11.I shot at a buck At maybe 150 yards. I was 100% certain that I hit the buck. I went to what was absolutely where he was standing. No blood. Two of us found not a single drop. Dejected , I went I into the swamp. Not even 50 yards away was the buck. Stone dead. Shot perfectly. Yet, there was not a single drop of blood.

I had similar results on hogs a few times. Just last night after sitting in a tree for 2 hours, I had a fair sized boar hog come out. I shot it at maybe 70 yards. I watched this hog run and run and run. I thought to myself that I must have missed. There was no way in hell that this hog could have run like this if I hit it. I got down out of the tree . I found lung particles but no blood trail to follow . I came back is morning. The hog was found in short order. It was shot absolutely perfectly. I could not have placed the bullet in any better place. There was no blood trail. It ran about 300 yards.

I am done with these things. Absolutely positively done. This should not be happening.

I need something that leaves a blood trail after opening a big hole. The TSS is not coming remotely close even on perfectly shot animals. If this happened once or twice , it would not phase me. It seems to happen every single time.

If I can't find something better , I am getting ready to use my 375. Not what will open a hole and leave a trail.

Does anyone have recommendations?

yards.

Noslers. There is a reason why they are the bullet everyone compares their bullets to. Ever notice that you never hear of Nosler comparing themselves against any other bullet? When you're recognized as the one to beat, that speaks volumes.

If Noslers don't do it for you then try Woodleighs. I've had real good luck with them as well. And I never had any complaints with the plain old Hornady Interlocks on deer sized game in my 7mm Mag. They always opened up well and let lots of blood out and air in.

Try the Accubonds or even the tried-and-true Partitions. You'll see a distinct difference in the results. The 150 grain Sierra GameKing is another wonderful bullet for the .270 WCF.

Yes, the Barnes bullets shoot accurately, but with the modest-velocity cartridges like I use, they've proven to kill slowly -- and certainly not as quickly and humanely as I prefer. Somewhere on the net a couple years ago, a long-time PH from Africa posted that he's seen more animals shot with Barnes require follow-ups than all other bullets combined.

Stick with the triple shocks. If you want bigger holes use a bigger caliber. A TSX in .416 should give you what you are after.

Seriously, you will get as large a hole from a TSX as any other premium bullet, probably larger. It seems your animals were shot quite dead in very short order.

Bill

Similar experience with Barnes. Partitions were the cure.

I know people are going to go nuts when I say this, but for whitetail deer and hogs, use a ballistic tip and the animal will likely be DRT if you hit him decently.

Partitions are fine and I really like the bullet, but the explosive impact and expansion of BTs kills 'em dead in a hurry. They also get much more penetration than you'd expect. I've probably killed over a 100 hogs and at least 50 deer with BTs in a .300 WM.

Hogs typically leave very little blood trail with almost any smaller diameter bullet. It seems like the fat and skin kind of close up over the wound. Bigger holes do better, but the only experience I've got with that is with .38-55s (a few hogs) and 45-70s (a few more hogs and a few deer). I didn't pay much attention to the blood trail since the animals died within a few feet of where they were shot.

I'm less than impressed with TSXs as well, with over 60 kills with them. They have their uses though, like pushing a little gun onto big game, shooting through animals lengthwise and shooting animals that you want to die somewhere else.You wouldn't think that last one would be a requirement often, and you'd be right.

Something as small as a deer doesn't need a buffalo bullet. Ordinary bullets are ordinary for a reason.

In my 270, I use Hornady SST's. Have not had a problem finding blood from any whitetail.

I too am a big fan of partitions, from 10 yards(yes I have shot whitetail hat close) to several hundred yards they get the job done and leave a nice big hole.

I have had consistently good luck with the Barnes "X" flat base bullets, the Triple Shoks are still being evaluated. JMO, but from the photos of the various bullets and their expansion, it looks like there is a design or manufacturing flaw in the TSX bullets. From what I remember of "X" bullets that I did recover, weight retention was excellent, but the petals peeled back farther and the bullet expanded to a larger diameter. I think the cavity in the "X" bullets extended further into the core and allowed the petals to open up farther.

I have had long history with the
Nosler balistic tips.
For the past 15 yrs they are all I have shot.
Elk,deer,moose,antelope,bears,hogs,fallow,axis....
Never had any trouble creating a blood trail thou most of them died within view.
I do like the "expanding" wound channel and in the larger animals the bullet ends up under the hide on the off side.
Complete confidence.

Interesting, I have used TSX's a bunch in my 22-250's, 270's and 338-06's.

My experience is vastly different than what is being stated here. In fact so much that I pretty much only use monometals any more.

The last few years I have been using GMX's also, with zero complaints.

Been a Barnes shooter for years on big game. However, I have not been impressed in my 270 for deer. I use horn at sst for whitetail.
In the photos shown, note the slow velocities. I actually consider them very slow veleocities. I prefer a much faster bullet. At high spees the Barnes will begin to perform much better. I am speaking of over 3000fps. My 300win mag is pushing 168 grain over 3300fps. My old warbirds was almost 3600fps.
Speed creates cavitation. Cavitation creates tissue damage, which creates death.

Speed kills!

My current bullet of choice is the Nosler Accubond. I load them from 25 cal through 375 cal. with the exception being the 270 (130 Gr. Ballistic Tip and the 325 WSM, (180 gr. Ballistic Tip. Unlike some, I want stuff to be DRT. Where we hunt, if you can't find a blood trail within 5 to 10 feet of the point of impact, you're screwed many times, particularly in the evening. There's no coming back later and find your animal like you see on TV. Sometimes 90 degrees in December and if the temps don't spoil the meat, ants, coons, fox, coyotes, hogs and other critters will be on it in a jiffy.

Here is a typical example............



Baiting is legal in Texas, we use spin cast feeders among other methods for baiting hogs. This feeder is set up in a small natural opening in a 500 acre bowl. It is 125 yds. +/- from where the picture was taken.

I was sitting out in the evening first evening last deer season. Hoping to get a hog. About 5 minutes before dead dark a sounder came in. The come in, mill about, fight each other squealing, pushing and being regular hogs. I wait for them to settle down a bit. I can barely see my reticule on this black hog, but it is the one I decide on. My favorite shot is about 2 inches below the ear on a line between the ear and shoulder. Put it there and your hoglet is DRT. Severs the spind, they drop and paddle, no tracking. However in this instance, from the time my brain says squeeze to the time my finger does, and the bullet impacts, she moves about 8 to 10 inches. Well its dark and its so thick that I can't walk straight down. I have to pack up, get on my four wheeler and take the 1/2 mile trek along the path. By time I get there it is dead dark. No moon. I keep a flashlight with me. As this ain't my first rodeo, I use a gun of sufficient caliber and have a headlight and flashlight. This is what a ballistic tip or Accubond will do to aid should you have to track.....



No problem finding blood, only have to try to follow it through the juniper,scrub brush and thorns on my hands and knees hoping he's dead and not gonna charge me in a confined space. One of the reasons I always carry a side arm.




So after a 150 yd. tracking job the ends 50 yds. from the point of impact I find him.
Now comes the fun part. Dragging him to the four wheeler and loading him up.



Entrance
Muzzle velocity +/- 2800 fps. Meant to shoot him just in front of the shoulder.



Exit


A couple more

hog
150 gr. ballistic Silvertip, 7mag.





whitetail doe
110 gr Accubond, 257 Roberts



hole going in



a hole going out.

My experience with the Barnes has been less than stellar. No problem with penetration. Have had a problem with blood trails.

Should you have to track, it sure makes it easier to have a blood trail.

Just sayin ...........

Best

GWB

this same discussion has been raging for years on other forums over triple shocks and barnes in general. especially over here in CA after the lead ban. My family has been using barnes for over 20 years now, and have never had a problem with dozens of animals taken. We do all of our own reloading.

the one common thread I've found is the ones usually experiencing problems with the triple shocks are those usually using factory loads. just an observation.

Bobby, I've had my best luck with Barnes in calibers that have a muzzle velocity over 3000 fps. I like muzzle velocities around 2600 to 2800 fps for game I plan to eat. I've lost two hogs and personally experienced the slower expiration of two deer shot with 140 gr. TSX out of a 7mm-08. I switched to 140 gr. Accubonds and have not had similar problems.
I'm not knocking the Barnes. I just happen to prefer the Accubonds.
Personally, I don't care what folks use. I reload every thing I shoot. I go to the range and know within a 1/2 in of where my bullet will impact at 200 yds. or less. I want a bullet that I have absolute confidence in, that way, if I do my part, it will do likewise. I'd say find such a bullet and employ it. Confidence in your equipment and abilities makes a big difference in game gettin'.

Best

GWB

quote:

the one common thread I've found is the ones usually experiencing problems with the triple shocks are those usually using factory loads. just an observation.

That is why I stated I am still evaluating the TSX's. Have been handloading/reloading since the late 1960's, and fully 95% or maybe slightly more of the game I have killed have been with my handloads/reloads.

The only gun where I am concerned about bullet performance is my wife's .257 Robert's. The older 85 and 95 grain "X" flat base worked like a charm from 40-50 yards out to 200-225 yards, good pass thru, enough expansion for a good blood trail.

Then Barnes went to producing the TSX and dropped the "X" Flat Base so I moved up to the 115 grain TSX. It shoots accurately enough, but the wound channel/exit hole is not what I prefer.

With the .257, I may go to the "old" 117 grain Remington core-loct bullet.

We were gifted several boxes of Remington Factory loads with that bullet and got pretty spoiled with good pass thrus and golf ball sized exit wounds on heart/lung shots and the critter making 30 yards at most from point of impact.

I work up all of my loads starting at the bottom of the table and working my way up, and as soon as I get the accuracy I want, I stop, and the results I am seeing with the 115 TSX may simply be due to not loading at a higher velocity.

I haven't had any problem with TSX and have been shooting them almost exclusively since they were introduced. Most of my experience is with the 150gr in 30-06 and the deer here are only 110-130lbs. I load them to 2750fps MV in the -06 or 308, and from the RUM the 180's start at about 3400fps. Most have been DRT but like Geedubya I prefer neck shots.

Try a box of Remmy 130 or 150 core-lokts. For deer and pigs no problem. I've killed deer, elk and mountain goat with the 130 gr. The question is: Do they shoot in your rifle?

Good luck.

You really don't need a deep penetrating bullet for animals the size of deer or hogs. There just isn't enough resistence in them to open one up. Use a standard cup and core bullet and you will be much happier.

465H&H

Barnes.....not for me

Nosler Accubonds for all my stuff for the last 4 seasons

Before that....30 years of Sierra

I didn't need to change from Sierra to Nosler 4 years ago....I just did

One has to wonder just how many deer, hogs, elk, antalope and bears have been killed with a common old Core Lokt bullet whilst folks were running around looking for the game they've shot with one of the magic bullets?
.270s and 30-06s have been around for a long time and Rem has been making bullets for them that kill stuff.
Anyway, learn to reload and then you can use whatever bullet you want to.

I shoot either Barnes TSX or TTSX or Nosler Partitions out of all mu hunting guns, and have no complaints using either brands. As of late, I have gravitated to the use of the Barnes TTSX.

Like Geedubya said, blood trails are rarely needed with BTs and ABs, but when they are, it's nice to have them look like these:

Thanks all. I think BT's pictures show why this is happening . Not much expansion.

As an FYI , I went back in good light and had a look. Zero blood. This hog should have never ran 300 yards. It kind of reminds me of the few times I have shot plains game with a solid.

I am switching. Not sure to what yet. This started because I was unable to locate the bullets I wanted. I have never shot the Accubond's. I do have several boxes of Nosler Partitions.

To those who love the TSS , good luck. I am glad you experienced good things. I have not. I wish I had. I want the critters to die ASAP. If I make a good shot and the animal runs, I want it to run a short distance and I want to see a major league blood trail. I have experienced neither with the TSS.

I am reliving in my mind a buck from last year. It wasn't far. It was at an odd angle. I saw the deer stumble when I shot . It ran off with it's head down. Between 3 of us, we didn't find a single drop of blood. The deer ran into a really bad place. We called it a miss. I am not so sure any longer.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Thanks all. I think BT's pictures show why this is happening . Not much expansion.

As an FYI , I went back in good light and had a look. Zero blood. This hog should have never ran 300 yards. It kind of reminds me of the few times I have shot plains game with a solid.

I am switching. Not sure to what yet. This started because I was unable to locate the bullets I wanted. I have never shot the Accubond's. I do have several boxes of Nosler Partitions.

To those who love the TSS , good luck. I am glad you experienced good things. I have not. I wish I had. I want the critters to die ASAP. If I make a good shot and the animal runs, I want it to run a short distance and I want to see a major league blood trail. I have experienced neither with the TSS.

I am reliving in my mind a buck from last year. It wasn't far. It was at an odd angle. I saw the deer stumble when I shot . It ran off with it's head down. Between 3 of us, we didn't find a single drop of blood. The deer ran into a really bad place. We called it a miss. I am not so sure any longer.

Sorry, to hear that. I have been using nosler partitions for last few years and have done a great job but have found on smaller game they really blow out the exit hole. I am a little worried as I am switching my 7-mag to TTX so not to blow the sides out, guess we will see.

Larry,

I think like most bullets the TSX is not ideal for every application. I know "No shit Mark". I have also found on light big game that the blood trail is not great when using the TSX. I remember when you first posted about your experience with the TSX and the deer. The TSX in my opinion really shines when you have no choice but to take that bad angle shot through bone or right up the butt. It also gives you a litte more leeway on how big an animal you might take on with a fairly light rifle. I wounded a pretty big elk this last season in NM with a 30-06. When I finely got to a position where I could actually get a good second shot at him he was going up hill and straight away so I took the up the butt shot. The 180 TSX entered one ham and exited just behind the oposite shoulder killing the bull instantly. I would not have expected that from any other bullet.

I am takng the TSX to Africa again this year in my '06 and hope to take a couple of zebra and a croc with the 165 TSX that shoots incredible well in my rifle.

Yeah! I don't see the TSX as a first choice for deer but when you need what the TSX offers nothing else will really do.

For a good blood trail and a little more tissue destruction the ACB seems to be about perfect. Great BC, accuracy like the BT and about the same weight retention as the NP.

Mark

Mark

165gr. Ballistic Tips in my 30-06 for deer sized game. I don't care about weight retention in this application, just want to pop their eyeballs out with a behind the shoulder shot.
Use Partitions for elk sized game. 

In the gear list from my Dall sheep outfitter, he stated specifically "No Barnes X bullets". 

Now if I was shooting 300 Weatherby velocities, probably would go with the Accubond. 

Dog Man:

Interesting comment by the outfitter.

Mark:

I hear what you are saying. It reminds me of the old African PH's that want you to use a solid on the second shot. No doubt the TSS penetrates.

It is 7 months until the upcoming deer season. I have some time to decide.

Does anyone load a Swift A- Frame in factory loads? Has anyone utilized the Superior ammo loaded with the A- Frames?

Thanks all.

Larry I am very late weighing in on this, but have you considered Speer Grand Slams? I shot them for a long time and never had any sort of an issue with any of them. They held up and always exited, didn't waste much edible meat, and always left a huge blood trail.

Now: having said that, I wouldn't use a 270 and a GS on a bull elk. I did that and although the bull was dead on impact, the bullet did not exit. It came apart inside the animal. But for deer and hogs it is hard to beat, as far as I am concerned.

But so are the original Hornady Interlocks, and the Remington Core-Lokts. I honestly believe the bullet manufacturers in many cases have gone too far. Cup and core separations will happen now and again with traditional bullets, but there is no need for heavy jacketed controlled expansion bullets on deer.

And one last thought: I shoot hogs in the head. They don't move when you do it that way...

Remington loads the A-Frames in their premier line, Larry.

This link will give you the stock/order number.

http://www.remington.com/produ...premier-a-frame.aspx

I have no idea on availability though.

Like Geedubja TSX are best at 3000fps or faster. I use 85 Grain TSX in my 240 Weatherby and had excellent results in RSA with 5 one shot kills on plains game. With the 30-06 I use 165 grain A-Frame running about 2850 fps and get great results. Bullet placement is what counts generally animals shot properly don't tend to travel to far (IMO). I use Nosler partitions and Accubonds with great success. All of these modern bullets perform well when properly matched to the rifle cartridge, muzzle velocity and the rifle itself. Again, (IMO) all rifles shoot diferently with different bullets and loads. The bottom line use what works best for you.

You should try the North Fork bullet line, their performance has always been perfect for me. I have shot them from 277 caliber up to .416 and have never lost an animal. I also shoot Nosler Partitions and Accubonds, Swift A-Frames, Barnes TSX. Generaly, when I am targeting an animal it is with a North Fork. They will cost you more, but what do you want, results or problems. Good shooting.

NOSLER!

Does anyone load a Swift A- Frame in factory loads? Has anyone utilized the Superior ammo loaded with the A- Frames?

Thanks all.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure winchester sells them in 130 grains.

When pressed, the guys at Nosler will admit that Accubonds can do 90% of what Partitions can do, but with better accuracy and ballistics.

I have shot lots of stuff with Accubonds in my .280 AI (including many deer and hogs and some fairly large stuff like kudu and zebra) and have never been disappointed. I also think Ballistic Tips are great, but some people can't get past the fact that the original ones expanded too quickly. Accubonds do not have that problem, but they also don't act like solids.

Thanks all.

I at least know it isn't me. Other have the same problem.

I am really rethinking the buck I "missed" last year. I bet that it was hit and I unfortunately experienced the TSS issues at their worst. It makes me sick to think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
Try a box of Remmy 130 or 150 core-lokts. For deer and pigs no problem. I've killed deer, elk and mountain goat with the 130 gr. The question is: Do they shoot in your rifle?

Good luck.

The 130 grain corelocks failed to completely penetrate the rib cage on the last 3 deer I shot with the 130 grain .270. All deer dead within 100 yards, but no exit wound and no blood on the ground. My solution-- put up the .270 and went back to a .308 winchester shooting 165 grain gamekings!

quote:

The 130 grain corelocks failed to completely penetrate the rib cage on the last 3 deer I shot with the 130 grain .270. All deer dead within 100 yards, but no exit wound and no blood on the ground. My solution-- put up the .270 and went back to a .308 winchester shooting 165 grain gamekings!

Another case of where we are all the product of our own experiences. I have yet to not have a 117 grain Remington Factory load Core-Loct make a complete pass thru on a heart/lung shot Texas whitetail at ranges out to 225+ yards, golf ball sized exit wound on the offside.

As for the .270, I personally don't like the cartridge, but there again, we are the sum of our experiences. I witnessed a man kill a 5x5 bull elk several years ago in western Colorado with one hit from a .270 using a 150 grain bullet, the range, according to a fairly new range finder was 500 yards +. I helped gut the animal, and the bullet broke both shoulders, hit heart and lungs and exited.