I like using iron sights and scopes but when i talk about hunting with iron sights at work i get looked at like i'm crazy or not ethical. I have a 30-30, mosin-nagant, and a 375 ultra bdl i use iron sights with. I recently bought the 375 and won't scope it yet(money) as i want a premium scope on it. This year i will hunt with iron sights and the 375 already put 140 rounds downrange practicing and am doing quite well at the 300 meter pigs with a bipod and iron sights. Anyway i feel most hunters i know anyway think you have to have a 3-9 scope or you can't hunt. How do you guys feel? and yes i know all the arguments about ultramags but i still will enjoy using it with iron sights this year.

I am not a great fan of open sights if I am shooting at long range targets but I can shoot peep sights almost as well as a scope.I killed a coyote with my .50 cal. muzzleloader w/peep sights at 150 yds with a front shot to the chest.I am probably much older than you when I was growing up scopes were not common and you learned to shoot open sights effectively.I didnt own a scope until I was in my late 20's.My first deer rifle was a springfield 1903-a3 w/peep sights and it was incredibly accurate.

I feel if your have fair vision in which mine is marginal (scleral buckel) you can shoot much farther than one thinks, with practice! Yes i enjoy scopes and feel iron sights are not going to be seen anymore as technology increases. A friend shoot blackpowder a lot and it is impressive to see someone down 8 0f 10 chickens at 200 meters offhand but i think soon with help of technology there will be less and less work for the shooter.

Open sights leave a lot to be desired for me, but peeps are an entirely different matter. I use peeps and scopes about equally often, because they fit certain situations very well. Scopes are obviously the general purpose and longer range choice. Peeps are great for wet weather, ultra light and compact rifles, and for the truck (airplane or boat) or camp guns that get knocked around with limited care.

Fireplug

I have a scope on my CO2 rifle, peeps on everything else. However, if it is more than 300 yards, I just watch and wait and get closer. There is nothing unethical about scopes, just have found that at the ranges I hunt, peeps are just fine. I did have a scope on my 8MM RM, but most of that shooting was at random inanimate targets over 600 yards. When actually hunting with said 8MM, scope was turned to 2X. I kind of subscribe to KISS, Keep It Simple, Stupid. Stupid, of course referring to me, as this is a choice I make for myself and noone else. BTW, said CO2 rifle is hell on a target across the house. If I could just get some "Hammerhead" ammo for it I might tackle DM (Dangerous Mouse). Hey, I'm just kidding OK?

I've used irons quite a bit, and I can't say I was at a disadvantage. My eyes now make it difficult to use regular irons, but peeps are still fine.

Now most of my rifles have scopes, and I prefer using a good scope. Poor scopes are a much bigger disadvantage than irons. Lots of people go afield with scopes that are not dependable and can't understand why they missed their deer or elk at 100 yards. I have seen maybe a dozen scopes fail while afield; most of these were cheap optics. One was a Burris, and one a Leupold. I've also seen irons fail twice, both times Remingtons.

I make no distinction between 'iron' and 'peep' sights. I always considered peep sights to be a type of iron sight, not seperate from them.

I do use peep sights on some of my rifles, but have to admit that at longer ranges (>100 yards) I would rather have a scope. I use the peep sighted rifle when I expect wet hunting conditions, and when I'll be hunting in very thick brush. I also use standard 'iron' sights on my black powder rifles.

"Iron" is "iron," to include "open" and "closed" (peep) sights.

I have a Marble tang sight on my .42-60 CF and, though I don't expect I'll hunt with it, on my Rossi '92 in .45 Colt I have a Lyman #2. "MY" personal feeling is that if you're going to use iron sights, peep sights are the way to go... and if you have the option to use a tang sight, THAT is the way to go!

Oh, and I say this because I have shot both buckhorn and peep sights my entire life (and yes, I have a lot of scoped guns, too), and peeps are WAY faster and WAY more accurate than buckhorn sights. If you want to see who is making more consistent shots FASTER, at a cowboy action shoot, visit a CAS event some weekend. Tang sights outnumber buckhorns, easily... and most of the ones with buckhorns plan to put on a tang.

Russ

[ 10-06-2002, 04:28: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ]

I use the africa - sight on my .416 Rigby...it will never be polluted by a scope...those double square bridges will stay virgin....

I shot iron sights up until about 1965.

The only time I can imagine wanting iron sights now would be if I had to face dangerous game inside 50 yards.

I've scoped my hunting pistol as well.

A scope reduces the margin for error.

The scope sighted rifle reduces the margin of error in all hunitng scenario's. The scope sighted rifle allows you to look into the woods and pick ashooting lane. That is not possible with out the aid of the scope. The eye is not able to see possible obstructions in the bullets path of flight to the target. Nothing wrong with using open sights but if you care to have that extra edge that is paramount in all hunting venues do yourself and your game a favor and put a scope on your rifle. They still produce 1.5 power scopes if you don't like the higher magnification models. In the real world of hunting we do not hunt in a flat obstruction free enviroment. That nice buck standing in or near brush can be harvested with a scope sighted rifle because you can see where to place the bullet through the scope sighted rifle. With open sights you only see the deer in the brush and it all blend together with no clear bullet path you can define to the target with your naked eye. Hunt with no scope if you must, your only hurting your game getting chances.

The fact that you don't care to use a scope sighted rifle is fine with me. You are only hurting your ability to be a better hunter and game getter by doing so. Consider yourself one lucky guy that you have the eyesight that permits you to continue to hunt with open sights. Soon father time will take over and you may as well beat him to the punch you will be glad you did.

Hi billy375
I have a Browning BLR .223 that has a Williams receiver twighlight aperture sight with a Fire Sight front sight(fibreoptic)bead that I use to hunt feral dogs.

Regards
Deafdog

Like a previous post stated the guys and gals that shoot service rifle competition can and do shoot very well with peep sighted AR 15's. The smith that builds my rifles won the Indiana NRA High Power Championship with a service rifle this past summer. The first time it had been done. His wife won the Kentucky High Power Championship with an AR 15 Match Rifle with aperature, and globe sights. These shooters will surprise you big time if you have never seen them perform. They can shoot. I know I wouldn't stick my head above the berm and give them one shot for a million dollars at 600 yards trust me.

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight.....RiverRat

Interesting subject, and I'll agree with the poster that said yuor critics are misinformed... or they can't shoot with sights, and are pushing that to you.

For a general rifle, i prefer
low powered scope premium maker
apature sights
express sights (a la cz)
good iron sights
anything found on a rifle that will shoot
"buckhorn" (grrrrr)
and then a shotgun bead.

With practice, and a good rifle, you can shoot as well as the gun can to 100 yards. Past that, you will "loose" a little, not much, and but then you could go with peep sights out to a LONG range. I've got BP friends that shoot to 800yards, and I can shoot my m14 as well with NM sights as I can with a scope on it.

Don't let your friends/critics get you down. So em that you can out shoot em with your sights, and then ask em why they waste money on scopes!!!

jeffe

On my one and only hunting rifle I have iron sights -- as back-up! I much prefer to use a scope! -memtb

I like to have at least one rifle with good open sights for my "rain gun". I think everyone should at least have one rifle with open sights to practice with.

I've only recently (last 5 years) moved to scope sights and then only on my Contender barrels. I imagine I'll put one on the 9.3x62mm.

I have BOTH on my .38-55 barrel. Williams FPRS for the 1300 fps loads, 1.5-5X for the "high power" 1800 fps loads.

I have a fool proof peep sight on my Mauser 358 norma, and also have scope mounts for it, but what I realy want is a good set of express sights, they just seem sexy to me. i carry my quick detach rings and scope incase i need them but most of my shots are inside 150 yds and I can make consistant hits on the vitals of a moose/bear at that range.

I'm pushing the hell out of 70, wearing bifocals but I can still use iron sights, peep or shallow V makes little difference...I'm good to 250 yards or a bit more, better at 200...

I like a scope and I use them quite often, but the day you catch me with a big game rifle without iron sights you will also see me with pants on with only one leg....

I like them and I use them...My 404, 450-400 and 375 H&H will never be poluted by a scope...I have a 416 Mauser, and a FN 375 with scope and irons...

I have found a time and place for both and I use them accordingly..

I differ from most in that I shoot irons and have a scope just in case, this mostly applies in Africa but also in the USA, but to a lesser extent...most folks are the opposite and that's OK as todays hunters grew up in a scope generation, I did not..

I use mostly home-made peep sights dovetailed into various receivers or barrel breech ends:Marlin, M-70(Don't shudder, it came out REALLY nice!), NEF, Rossi single shots, muzzleloaders....
If you think hard and try variations, you can shoot iron sights till they throw dirt on your face. You may be a bit limited as to range as your eyes deteriorate. (So what? That's what hunting is supposed to be about, getting closer...)

Good ex. WHY, is my Norinco JW-15 that is tuned to shoot 1/4" (most of the time), at 50 yds. with 60 gr. Aguila .22LR.
It cost about $75. The Leopold 4x Compact RimFire scope I pulled off my long barreled Marlin 32-20 to put on it would retail for near $250.

For most instances, if the shooter is willing to spend up to half as much as a good scope/rings/bases, you can have superb iron sights that are more dependable, simpler, less obtrusive, and way less $ than the usual decent scope set up.

Some cal.s and some "missions" could only use a low power scope anyway.
I have a 2x ACOG Compact (horrendous ammont of $!), on a 16" barreled Marlin .44 .
This is a really nice rig! But is it neccessary for the limitations of the rifle and cart., and the game usually to be shot? (Deer/bear under 100 yds. & grouse/small game with a roundball under 25 yds.) Nope!

I am going to iron sight my soon to be built .257 Robt.s on a pre-WW2 M-70 with stripper clip guides. (I have a std. M-70 that will carry a scope. Bets on which one will be carried/used more?)

Deer and such are big targets with vital areas the size of a supper plate.
If you can take a squirrell or a grouse's head off with iron sights at 25 yds., you can sure hit the vital area of a deer or black bear out to 200 yds. with an iron sighted rifle that shoots relatively flat. (The .44 is what I would consider a 150 yd. cart., regardless of sights, due to the trajectory.)
Dave .32-20

I find the excuse of my eyes are going bad nothing more than a crutch, all you need to do is get a pair of corrective lens glasses and your back in business with iron sights...works for me, try it and see if it works for you, in many cases it will.

I am amazed at how accurate iron sights are at even 300 yards and more amazing is that I can shoot better off hand with irons than I can with a scope, at up to about 150 yards, beyond that a scope is better for me.

I like iron for close in, heavy brush work.

Iorn sights have their advantages as well. There isnt a scope on the planet that offers the quick target aquisition of an open sight or the ability to immediatly spot your shot. I love using my open sight .22 for rabbits and have been too long without a larger caliber equipped with iorn sights in the cabinet, but that has finally been remedeed. Still for Mulies and Elk I like the benefits and visual edge of a scope. If I ever get lucky enough to draw a Moose permit I may go Iorn sights for that..

I use receiver sights on my Marlin guide gun every other rifle I own is topped off with a scope.

Since I started shooting I've used aperture sights. Of course, that's what the Army mostly used as well. However, about 1995 I got "into" Contender carbines. Almost all are scoped, one barrel has both, one has only the aperture sight. I don't think the scope sight is necessarily better, just different. Oh, I am using 2�X (10 ea), 4X (2 ea), 1-4�X (2 ea), 3-9X (1 ea).

[ 11-21-2002, 18:26: Message edited by: Hobie ]

Russell,
Your right about the tang mounted peep sights for CAS. I put one one my Marlin 38/55, a Marbles, now i want one for my 73. I've packed the 38/55 in the timber a couple of times this season lookin for elk but ain't got to "use" it. It'll shoot as well as any scoped rifle i got out to 250 yards and thats sayin somethin cause i got some good shooters! The key is "practice".

Most iron sights are terrible thats why so many use scopes. E.E.Patridge unlike others first asked eye doctors how the eye works.With that info he designed sights that are excellent The square post ,square notch sights that bear his name are accepted as the best handgun sight but are also excellent for rifles using 1/8" post. 1/8" notch.Fast and accurate. Also fast and accurate is the peep .For hunting this should be 1/8" square post and thin ringe peep with 3/16" to 1/4" ID.

Mete,
1/8" wide partridge is way to thick for a rifle unless your shooting at 25 yards...

I prefer a much thinner sourdough partridge so that it does not block out the target at 200 yards..New England Arms makes the perfect partridge sight and in heighths up to .700, so it can be filed to zero. It is perfect. I suspect it is .80 wide...and I like a big hole on my receiver sight, a ghost ring, .125 is about right.

Atkinson, the proper spelling is Patridge, a common error . Yes an.80" post will work but going down to 1/16 things deteriorate.There is a technical reason but I don't remeber the details. I find 1/8" works fine at 100 yds but it has to be sighted in so the target sits on top of the post. For me at 200 I'll take a scope. And assume you ment a .250 peep not .125.

All my rifles have iron sights, regardless of whether I put a scope on top.
I learned to shoot using iron sights, and still use them depending on what rifle I'm using, as not all have scopes on them.
I find myself leaning away from scopes more and more, and my invest in ghost rings to check them out. ~~~Suluuq

I personally cannot use iron sights. My eyes lack the ability to focus on three objects (target, front sight, rear sight). I can't even focus on two out of the three to be quite honest. My groups with iron sights look more like shotgun patterns.

I scope every firearm I own with the exception of my pistols in which I have learned to shoot by instinct. My first shot is usually off quite a bit, but the rest will group well enough to put down any intruder. If I had another $350 laying around I would be using Crimson Trace laser on my 45ACP.

jcs,
You are completely normal in your inability to focus on three objects simultaneously. You simply don't understand how or have never been properly taught how to use the iron sights.
The ONLY thing you focus on when using iron sights is the front sight... I'm not saying you don't have the target and rear sight lined up with the others. You simply only concentrate and focus on your front sight. Everything else will be a little blurry.
Try it sometime...I promise you will amaze yourself with what you can do....

The range I find game is nearly always <200yds, and mostly around 100yd or less. Even in the west. A scope isn't necessary and I haven't found anything that comes on target as well as a white bead in a peep.

I think there is a strong link between iron sights and shooting offhand. Most people seem to work hard to get their rifle into the "4s" off the bench, rather than practicing how to hunt with it.

Mete,
Time nor desire, does not allow me to check my spelling and I type faster than I can think, I make lots of errors..It does not bother me so your wasting your breath..This entertaining forum on hunting and shooting is no spelling B...

As to the issue at hand, I think everyone uses what will work for them, I know I do, and thick front sights turn me off as they cover too much of the animal beyond 50 to 75 yards where they are the pits, a very thin front post is what I personally find works best for me, at least for the last 60 years on game...lots of game. I wouln't care to change it on such short notice, from an English professor or literary genious such as yosef.

I'm a conservative.

Don't hunt much anymore, but when I want meat, 1 reach for a Savage 99 in .250-3000 wearing a Williams peep. I threw the aperture in my junk box 20 years ago. It had a sourdough front for years, but now it has a blaze orange glowing chunk of plastic for a front sight.

We kill our deer in piedmont Virginia in heavy cover at close range. 30 yards is about average. I can still make 200 yard shot with my rig if one offers, but the money shot is on a fast moving deer, ahead of dogs at less than 50 yards.

A ghost ring is the pure quill for that kind of shooting. When I hunt, I hunt. If it rains, I keep hunting. If it snows, I keep hunting. A scope ain't worth a damn in rain or snow, but my primitive rig don't care.

Btw, I am real likely to be shooting 117 grain RN. Shooting 90-120 pound whitetails, the main thing you want from a bullet is for it to open up. The 100 grain will kill quicker when you hit something solid enough to expand it, but you can slide one through the rib cage like it was an FMJ.

I shot a deer yesterday with irons on my .45-70 highwall. I intend to scope it even though I can shoot well with irons out to 75 -100 yards. The reason to scope this rifle is that the irons reduce hunting time by at least 20 min. at sunup and sundown because of low light. I also can't shoot left handed with the iron sights. I can't voluntarly shut my right eye to shoot left handed. I can cross over and see through the scope with my right eye shooting left handed. Sometimes in the stand the only way to shoot is to switch hands. I don't want to miss any oppourtunities.

In my country, almost EVERYONE uses iron sights for hunting. A 100 yard shot is a long one and since most of us use shotguns with ball for pigs telescopes never seem neccessary. Just my 2c from the back of beyond!

Kentucky Nimrod,

Concerning my eyes focusing on the iron sights, the reason I lack the ability to use them is due to an eye problem I have that was only diagnosed a year or so ago. While I can focus on the front sight, my target is too blurry for proper shot placement. In all honesty I can't group a 6" pattern at 50 yards with my slug gun because of it. Put a red dot scope on and they shrink to 2". I also found out that the problems I have with my eyes I have had since I was a youngster. It wasn't until I was 30 (last year) that the problem was diagnosed. That was why I had so much trouble reading as a kid. I have dual eye dominance and am near sighted. Not a good combination for iron sights.

If anyone out there has kids, PLEASE get their eyes checked on an annual basis. This would have saved me so much trouble in 12 years of school and 13 years of college (worked my way through until I had my M.S.C.E.).

Many people don't understand that you don't try to focus on both sites and the target. I have had pretty good accuracy by focusing on just the front site. Yes, you see 2 targets when focusing on the front site, but you just aim right between both the targets. You can also focus on the target. this will make it look like you have 2 front site posts. just center the target between both images of the front site that you see. both work just as effective. I have no problems hitting foot by foot targets at 328 yards 40 out of 40 shots.

I'm actually dissapointed that most rifles do not come with open sites. you can always rely on them if you break a scope or something.