I'm shopping around for a new hunting rifle and accuracy is pretty much top on my list of requirements. I really don't feel like lugging around a HB varmint style rifle so weight would be second, AFTER accuracy. I was looking at the Weatherby SBGM or even a H-S Precision in 25-06 or 257 Wby but I'm open to just about anything. One suggestion was to build a #2 contour,26" long, 257Wby,poke it in a McMillan stock and base it off a Rem 700 action. That sounds very interesting. What's your opinion/experience on this?

Nebraska:

I'd say that you need to define your needs more clearly.

#1...How accurate do you expect/need it to be?? Is 1" for 3 shots OK?? 1" for 5 shots?? Better than that??

#2...How light do you want it to be?? 8lbs scoped?? 7 lbs. scoped?? 6lbs???

#3...Do you want a monster scope for this gun?? The big 10X, 12X, 14X variables add a lot of weight VS say a 2x7 or 3x9.

#4...A McMillan stock, though excellent, will weigh about 26-28 oz. You could get a nice stock job from several makers for 20oz. or less and invest the weight savings in your barrel.

#5...Whats the budget?? $1500?? $2500??

My 25-06 is 6lb. 5oz. scoped and shoots 3 between 1/2" - 1" with good loads (but it does not shoot that well with everything) Really light guns can shoot well, but it takes some work to tune them.

JimF

If accuracy is your priority forget weatherby factory rifles and have a custom built.Weatherby only guarantees 1-1/2" groups which is pathetic for the price they command.Even tikka guarantees 1" groups and for a lot less money.Most custom builders will guarantee 3/4" or even 1/2" groups and will send the load specs and test targets with the rifle.A full custom also give you the choice of barrel lengths and contours and stock style and length of pull.In short the gun will be made to fit you and your needs.I only hunt with customs myself and mine are all built on 700 stainless actions with mcmillan stocks and match grade barrels and the price is not as high as you might expect.

if you are going to reload send a 700 long action to pacnor and don't worry about it until next season if not send him the action then send him abox of the bullets you would like to shoot and have him set it up for that bullet 725-800 bucks you could have one hell of a shooter then add a good stock, don't forget to top it out with an excellant scope and trigger job, i would have an h&r with a leupold any day than a nice weatherby with a simmons 44 mag scope

Get a Savage, add a timney trigger bed the stock and enjoy!

Nebraska,..go with stubblejumper's advice.I compared prices of Weatherbys and Sakos and decided that I was way overdue for a custom job."Have it the way you want it"(didn't some burger chain use that?).It's not as much as you think when compared to new Sako at about $1400 in Canada or a Weatherby Accumark at about $1800.

Mate just buy a Sako in any size you want you will be buying a vastly supperior rifle than any factory US rifle. Out of the box it will shoot half as good again as any Rem Win or Wheth, and has the quality control to backti up . The last to USA made rifles were a Accmark and a M70 express were so badly made the dealer's told me they were junked. Do yourself a favour buy a Sako 75 Synthetic in what ever turns you crank you wot go wrong. Mine in 30 06 and 223 will both group around .5-1.00 for ten a 100.
As in every thing in life you get what you pay for.

Cheers Guesty

Any recommendations on a good gunsmith for a job like this??? Also, how do you go about shopping for an action/components? Do the gunsmiths already have them or do you provide your own?

Go to the Brownell web site and order their catalog - they sell actions, barreled actions or just plain barrels - and stocks (synthetic, wood, laminates) by any or all and fine tune with a gunsmith if needed - ie. blueing. This catalog is priceless for do it yourself projects. Me - I would build a 284 Win on a standard lenght action - handload 160 gr to 2900 fps and take on anything with a not too heavy not to hard kicking rifle - that has reach and thump. Have fun

Nebraska-Most gunsmiths will provide all components.Some like ross spagrud of prairie gun works even makes his own titanium actions if you are interested.(he also uses factory actions)You can order pretty much whatever options you choose with your budget your only limitation.

If budget is a concern, I usually find a good used rifle that is beat up but has an action in good shape, with no major dings, extra holes drilled, or missing or non working parts, and no rust.
Then take the barreled action out of the stock, send it to Pacnor and let them barrel it for you in a weight you prefer. Just give them a call and explain what you are looking for and they will discuss all the details with you. Then they'll true the action, lap the lugs, turn the barrel to your desired contour, and install the barrel- all for about $420 for their best barrel.
While waiting for the rifle to come back, purchase yourself a McMillan stock to put it in, (you'll need the barrel contour information), and put it all together when you're ready. Some of the McMillan internet specials go for as little as $250-300 and you basically drop the barreled action in and tighten the action screws.
You'll have a heck of a shooter for a lot less money than a full custom, and you can set up they way you want.
Personally, I prefer the Rem. 700 and Win. Pre 64 actions for customs and if you shop around, you can still find them for a good price- probably around $300-350 for the actions alone or even a beat up rifle with a good action. Just toss the bad stock, or sell it if it is good enough to interest anyone.
So, for around $1,000, you can have a pretty darned good shooter and be very close to a custom rifle. It just takes time and planning. If you want to save some time looking for an action, you might try Chester's in New York. They have a website, and they always seem to have some good actions for a little more money.
Good luck in your search- and in making the decision on what to build. - Sheister

Nebraska:

The advice from SJ in both of his posts is spot on. But!! You still have to decide what you want.

Make your decision on the following (in order of importance). You have to know what you want before you ask somebody to build it!!!!!

Caliber?? You Have to know this before you start.
How accurate?? (3/4" for 5 @ 100 or whatever??)
Weight?? (7lbs? 8lbs??) ((BTW expect to be asked what scope & mts you'll use))
Budget?? How much can you spend.

Once you really DECIDE these questions, you should get an issue of "Rifle" and go through it and write, call, or e-mail the 20 or so makers that advertise "custom guns" The answers you get will go a long way in helping you decide whom to go with.

Sorry if this seems like a rant but if you call a gun maker and say "well I kinda want a custom gun thats really accurate and not too heavy in a 25-284-257-06/08/weatherby/remington????????"

You will end up with what he wants to build, not necessarily what you want to buy. Been there, done that!! Have a plan!! Then if it's not doable for whatever reason, they'll tell ya and you can modify your wish list.

JimF

A Remington action would be a nice choice. 25-06 is a nice round, and it is easy to find reloading equiptment and factory loads for. 26" #5 fluted Lilja barrel sounds nice. McMillan stock is excellent. And with a round like that, a Leupold 4.5-14x40 would be perfect. Work up a good load and/or try a variety of factory loads to find what shoots best. You could be looking at a really nice and accurate rifle.

I poor-boy'ed my first custom rifle with a used stock and barrel I picked up here at AR. The end result is a 22.250 that won't shoot OVER 1/2" with ANY type of factory ammo!!!! Moral of the story: Who puts it together makes all the difference!

Even so, I need to say this: 100% of the 1000's and 1000's of .25-06 I've touched off in my life have been through factory Ruger rifles. A M77 Mark II and a #1V. Both rifles shot about an inch and three eighths with the first box of factories I put through them. BUT after bedding, freefloating, trigger work, and some experimenting at the reloading bench, either rifle with make 3/4" 5-shot groups.

Unless you have a real lemon, big game accuracy doesn't take a gunsmith, or a certain brand, just patience and effort.

Also, the 24" #4 contour seems to be about the best contour for the non-varmint weight barrels in the quarter bore I've found. Balance is perfect too. Another side note is scopes. If you're not into lugging heavy guns, heavens, don't get anything bigger than a 3x9. I've had scopes as big as they come on my 25's, but a fine-plexed fixed 6x is as good as it gets.

Good luck!

I've taken a few Rem 700's and had the triggers tuned, actions gone through and rebarreled. Even using the factory wood stocks with proper bedding and free floating I had VERY accurate hunting rifles.

I also have a very accurate Wby Ultra Light weight too. Factory stock, and it shoots under an inch for four shots with about anything I feed it.Its a .280 Rem that weighs just under 7 pounds complete with scope and ammo. So don't discount the Wby's. Unless mine was just a lucky , accurate rifle.

FN

Give Mark Penrod a call and discuss what you want. He does excellent work and is reasonably priced. He typically uses Krieger barrels that have been cryo'd and McMillan stocks. His guns will shoot!
For an action, just go to Wal Mart and buy a Rem. 700, Mark will go through it properly when he barrels it.

JimF has given some very good advice, carefully plan your rifle before you buy a thing.

Plan caliber first (standard, magnum, wildcat,etc.), then action (long, short, magnum, control feed, push feed, brand).

Then barrel (lenth, taper, grade, brand).

Then sight (magnification, objective, tube, mounts, brands)

Then stock (wood, grade, plastic, pull, drop, cast off, monte carlo, cheekpiece, etc)

Lastly details(trigger/safety, checkering, recoil pad, sling swivels, grip cap, forend tip, etc.)

Good luck

I like mauser actions which you can get quite reasonable. I am also a fan of the .264 caliber as it usually out performs its ballistics. I do agree that you should know excactly what YOU want before you order. It is much cheaper to do it right the first time. Let me know what you decide on and maybe a picture.

I would start with .270 (a good all around cal.), next Rem. action, a H-S Precision stock (with aluminum bedding block), trigger work, a Burris 3-9x compact scope and a Shillan 24" select match grade barrel. This should give you good accurate shots without all the weight.

what did you end up buying?

I'm still up in the air on this!

I recently bought a SS Rem 700 ADL in 25-06 and an ADL McMillan Mountain Rifle KS stock but haven't sent in the action yet. The SS ADL 25-06 I bought appears to have a mountain or #1 contour barrel so I'm going to shoot it and see how I like the weight before I decide on a barrel contour. If it's a real shooter, I may leave it as is and use the stock for a 338 WM or something similar.

If I need to rebarrel the ADL 25-06, I might opt for a 270 Win instead of a 25-06. I'm currently shooting both chamberings and I like 'em both. If I find a nice used SS Rem 700 with a mag bolt face, I'll still go with the 257 Wby.

I went through the same thing a few months ago. I have a .300 Wthby Accumark and am currently waiting on HS to finish my HS .300 Wthby Pro Hunter.

My Accumark shot around 1.5" groups and that killed deer dead enough at 300+yds, but with the larger group at 100yds you also get a larger group at 3-400yds. The HS comes with a .5" guarentee and they give you the recipe for the load. .5" at 100yds will make a pretty good difference in accuracy at 3-400yds.

You probaby have all the same things running through your mind that I did. I started looking at HS's, Ed Brown's, Hill Country Arms etc... and after talking with my smith found out that he guarenteed .5" groups if he made the gun. With my smith making me the gun I'd probably save $500 or so and get exactly what I wanted. I decided to go with a Stainless Rem action, HS stock and HS 10x barrel. After giving a deposit, I called back and changed the action to a Sako action. Then he called me and recommended the HS action. At that point I told him to just order the HS Pro Hunter since it was going to be the exact same gun he wanted to build me and was now $400 cheaper!

Anyway, lot's to think about but HS does make a good product for the price.

Here ya go:
Bansner High Tech

I don't think it is that hard to get a REALLY accurate rifle these days, and it does not have to cost an arm and a leg. Okay, okay, a foot and a hand, maybe.

Model 700 BDL in .270 - brand new at a clearance sale $450 - used ones in excellent condition can probably be found for that price or less. I probably should have stuck with the box stock factory rifle as I ended up spending 4 times the purchase price and gaining maybe 1/2" in reliable grouping ability. Like the game really cares, right?

Rebarrel - .270 Win. Pac-Nor Super Match Chrome Moly, 23" long, contoured to match the Remington factory sporter contour. Action trued/lapped/all the usual good stuff by Pac-Nor. Matte blue the whole works by Pac-Nor - about $525 total including shipping.

McMillan Custom KS Mountain Rifle stock from 24hcf in grey - $245 delivered.

Brown Precision ADL kit - $54 delivered. Could and should have gone cheaper buying used parts from the classified's of this and other forums.

Jewell trigger - $220 - clean, crisp and s-w-e-e-t! at 2 pounds even. Also the safest Remington type trigger on the market.

Glass bedding the action and making sure the barrel was completely free floated - local gunsmith whose work on this type of thing I trust - $70

Leupold Vari-X III 2.5X8 Matte scope - bought three on eBay, two were used in good shape, one was NIB. Cheapest was $312, most expensive was $325.

Leupold Dual Dovetail bases and low rings - about $39.00. Now I would buy Talley one piece base/rings for $34.95.

Total invested $1,923.00. Weight just under 7 1/2 lbs with the scope but unloaded, just slightly muzzle heavy. Save about 5 ounces by going with a straight Leupold M8 4X and the aluminum Talley mounts.

Using good straight cases and 59 or 60 grains of RL-22 this will send 130 gr. Hornady's downrange at between 3150 and 3200 fps. Can approach 3300 fps easily and apparently safely with a couple grains more powder thanks to that 23" barrel, but I'm not comfortable with the unknowns at that speed, and why push it anyway? QuickLoad says my loads are only pushing the mid 50,000 psi range and I am very satisfied with that. This rifle can and has put five shots touching for groups under 1/2", like the .3's and .4's on several occasions. But on any given day, including the moderately windy ones, I can rely on 5 into or just under 3/4" and if not then I was the one responsible, not the rifle.

Could have saved $220 by staying with the factory trigger, it broke clean at 2 3/4 pounds but I always wanted a Jewell so splurged for one. Really glad I did! *Big ol' S.E.G.*

Could have gone lighter but like Melvin Forbes and Bob Hagel and some other folks advise - save weight elsewhere but if you have to put weight somewhere, put it in the barrel! Those leetle raggedy single hole groups sure do look nice! A total weight of 7 1/2 pounds is but a feather in the hands, that slightly muzzle heavy balance sure steadies it down when you're a huffin' and puffin' around the vertical country. And a 7 1/2 pound .270 in a fiberglass stock - recoil, what's that?

Discount the scope and mounts and the price for the rifle alone is just over $1500. BTW, my rifle is a lefty so the LH Jewell trigger is more expensive. Also, there are vastly more stocking options available for a RH rifle.

A $2500 rifle is surely a fine piece of work but you do not HAVE to spend $2500 and up to get a reliable, accurate and relatively lightweight rifle.

[ 03-05-2003, 01:51: Message edited by: Jim in Idaho ]

There is a falacy in most of the above and that is you end up with a Remington! You don't have too. There are finer actions, always have been.

I hunt because I want to and I like a little style.

Winchesters shoot just as well, have safeties and now the Montana action makes the Remington history.

Why is it that most gunsmiths prefer Remington 700 action over Winchester M70 or say things like "I can guarantee a accurized Remington M700 but not a accurized Winchester M70? I asked why? some say because they can't get 100% lug contact or because of the barrel thread length on the receiver. Are these gunsmith blowing smoke?

Norseman

Accuracy gunsmiths tend to be better setup for Remington actions.

One reason is that it is only in the last few years that a 3 lever trigger has been availble for the Model 70 and that is the Jewell.

The Remington's round receiver is better for glue ins. It is also better for glue ins because the trigger can be removed without having to take the rifle apart.

The push feed Remington also allows you to be setup up to change barrels between actions. That is a problem with CRF because of the extractor slot not lining up properly.

Mike

[ 03-05-2003, 08:37: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Mike375, I'm a greenhorn, what is a 3 level trigger?
the extractor cut on the barrel won't line up? isn't this good thing so that you will know whether or not your headspacing is correct between barrel change or swapping?

Norseman

A 3 lever trigger is one that lets you adjust down to as light as a 1 or 2 ounces. On your standard trigger you have the sear which rests on the trigger piece at one end and at the other end it holds the firing pin back. The firing pin might be resting on the sear with perhaps 25 pounds of force and the "leverage" of the sear might reduce that to a few pounds force on the trigger piece. In a standard trigger a pound or two pounds of pull weight can be caused by the friction between the sear and the trigger piece.

A 3 lever trigger adds another lever to the system and thus greatly reduces the weight on the trigger piece which in turn allows you to have a much lighter trigger pull.

When you have a setup whereby barrels can be changed between actions this is how it is done:

The first action is faced of maybe .020" and then a barrel chambered and fitted. This barrel is then fitted to a second action and the same headspace is achieved by facing off the second action. In other words the second (or third or ffourth actions etc) are fitted to the barrel rather than the barrel being fitted to the action.

Sometimes this will be done with several actions that are owned by friends.

The problem with CRF occurs if the extractor slot on the back of the barrel does not line up with the extractor then of course you can't close bolt.

Mike

Understood.

Norseman,

When a gunsmith says he'll guarantee accuracy with a M700 but not a M70 what he's really saying is he's not talented enough to build on a M70. The M70 is capable of just as good accuracy but it's not as easy to work on. The M700 is the 350 chevy of the gun world, parts everywhere and any jackleg gunsmith can work on one. That doesn't make it better, just more common.

Not that good an analogy. The 350 chevy is way better than that. In fact in a vote (SAE members) the car named the greatest car of the 20th century has that engine.

Not so with the 722/700. They may be easy to make accurate but that's where it ends.