(hope the topic was in the right english)

We had a christmas meeeting with all hunter from our area. There were about 60 hunters young an old. Most of them I knew since about 15 year. There was a lot of fun and dicussions about hunting and guns.The young wild guys, just started hunting had a illness we all know "magnumitis" and the hot US cartridges were a point of discussion. But the guys, starting 15 years ago with the same illness, became, I couldn't believe, fans of an old type of rifle - the drilling. Now 7x57, 8x57, 9,3x74R are wonderfull cartridges. Now a drilling is "the best hunting rifle ever". So my question, do you agree, one time, we all will end as drillings fans - I am on the best way.

Burkhard

Auf Deutsch bitte? Machts nichts mine Herr.
Nope I think everyone who starts out gets "magnumitis" at some stage. Some will eventually come to see the Combo gun as a solution to many hunting situations, as we have done. Some will not.
As I said, machts nichts, I've got mine!

Cheers, Dave.

Burkhard

I hope more hunters and shooter recovers from the "blaseritis"

Interesting topic, Sempert Kreighoff in 16X70 and 8X57IRS would be sweet. To find nice drilling in 8X65RS, 8X75RS or 9,3X65R would be wonderful

Good to hear that 5,6X57,6X62 Freres, 6,5X68, 8X68S, 9,3X64 or 9,3X70 isn't included in the "magnumitis" illness

Cheers
/JOHAN

I suspect I'll end up with a Cape Gun, but I'll keep an open mind on the subject.

If one hunts in an area where he or she can hunt and expect to see a variety of game in the same area at the same season, or if one is likely to encounter something large and dangerous while out bird hunting, a drilling makes a lot of sense. I have had a couple of hammer drillings over the years, and have decided that a hammerless is the way to go. As a North American hunter who hunts fairly rugged and steep terrain, the ideal for me personnally would be 20-gauge 76 mm over .30-06 with 60 to 65 centimeter long barrels, a weight of about 3.2 kilograms, and a 1-3/4 x 6 variable scope in a claw mount.

There may be no typical hunter in the USA as some have the money for a drilling but they are far too expensive for most.

Many hunters feel that if they pay $20 for a resident lic. that they are entitled to shoot some deer no matter what and as far as their gun cost goes they would rather borrow yours.

The upscale hunters don't even know what a drilling is for the most part.

I would estimate that drilling use in the USA is less than 1/10 of 1%.

Yes, I would have to say that those figures would probably extend to OZ as well, provided you didn't include the Savage 24 series. Any sort of Combo gun is a rarity here, let alone an expensive, top of the line, Drilling.

In the 35 or so years I have been shooting, I have only seen 1 veirling, 3-4 drillings, and about a dozen or so BBF's of various manufacture (less the Savage 24's, which are fairly common here).

However, with some of the comments I have received about my 7x57R/12g BBF, that may change, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Anyway, I've got mine, if other people cannot see how versatile these guns are, that's their own problem.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by Burkhard:
(hope the topic was in the right english)

Now a drilling is "the best hunting rifle ever". So my question, do you agree, one time, we all will end as drillings fans - I am on the best way.

Burkhard

Burkhard, there one must differentiate today. That comes on the too huntig game to in the district occurs. I tend to Bergstutzen (Over and under barrel wiht a big and a schmal Cardrigd 30R Blaser and 7x57R). For the bird hunt I still use the schotgun. Which the magnomanie concerns there give I you perfectly quite. My 30R I would not want to missen however also in my Bergstutzen.

German text only for rever:

Burghard, da muss man heute aber schon differenzieren. Das kommt auf das zu bejagende Wild an das im Revier vorkommt. Ich selbst tendiere zum Bergstutzen. Für die Vogeljagd verwende ich nach wie vor die Flinte.

Was die Magnomanie angeht da geb ich dir vollkommen recht. Meine 30R würde ich jedoch auch in meinem Bergstutzen nicht missen wollen

To "358Win":
Please don't apologise for your English grammar. Believe me....your English is far better than the Deutsch attempted by almost everyone else NOT from Deutschland! I think bergstutzen have less use on this continent than they might have in Europe. Here, one often jumps rabbits, birds or squirrels while hunting larger game. Thus the shotgun barrel of a BBF or drilling would find greater use here. And, if wanted, an einstecklauf can be inserted into the shotgun barrel. I have several BBF, but have sold my last 2 drilling. I cannot decide whether I need a drilling again. Still, there are so many wonderfully-made combinations from Germany, it is constantly tempting. My respects.....
Alex

358Win, don't worry about your grammar, etc, you should hear me mangle Deutsch when I try to speak it!
I agree with conifer though, at the moment I tend to use my BBF for most of my hunting, as I never know for certain what I will find as I hunt mostly on farmland, next to forests.
It could be Fox, Rabbit, Hare or even Deer.
Having the choice of cartridge can make all the difference, between going home empty handed, or with game.
I prefer the BBF to the Drilling simply as it lighter, and seems to come to my shoulder more easily, a bit like the difference between good and bad shotgun fit, perhaps?
The only Drilling I do like, so far, is a Sauer in a gunshop just down the road from me. Very nice.

Cheers, Dave.

Thanks for frendly sentens because of my gramer. I use a Blaser BBF in 30R Blaser and 12/70 and Drilling a Sauer & Sohn 16/70 16/70 7x65R. These Drilling it is a very light and god handel weapon which use also because of the first-class shootgun achievement. From my BBF I remove the Einstecklauf for 7 years only to clean. That is because of the different huntingranges which we has. Our huntingranges are in a opposite to yor´s huntigranges like a pupating tube;-)). Usually has I mey BBF thereby, and at night usually Repitierer Mauser, a 9,3x62

I've never had one but I am almost positive I will one day. I just think one would be fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Burkhard:
Now a drilling is "the best hunting rifle ever". So my question, do you agree, one time, we all will end as drillings fans - I am on the best way.

Burkhard

No Sir.

IMO the modern drilling is not an allround gun, but a specialized tool for the German "Hochsitzjäger" ("high seat hunter").
I do not need such a contraption. I am very happy with a 12 gauge shotgun and a bolt action rifle.
But I would gladly give an old style drilling a new home: 28" barrels, shotgun-stocked, 16 gauge over a modest rifle caliber, say 8x57IRS, open sights only.

Fuhrmann

Fuhrmann,

what about stalking with an Bockdrilling or an insert barrel (the poormen's bockdrilling)?

9,3 for boars, 5,6 or 6mm for roe deer and foxes and coons, the shotgun for birds and slugs for 2nd shot for boars.

You are right in one point, I wouldn't take a drilling for mountain hunting.

Burkhard

Why not use a BBF for mountain hunting? Mine is the lightest (2.65kg) centrefire I own. And quite accurate too, best ever was .75MOA with RWS 173?gr H mantles, but usually about 1.2 MOA with the Norma 154gr SP.
I find it to be very useful to be able to instantly choose between shotgun and rifle, in most of the places I hunt. But they are a compromise, especially for birdshooting with only one shotgun BBL.
Also, since it is only a single shot rifle, you must pick your shots carefully, reloading takes a little longer than simply working a bolt.
I can live with those restrictions, some may feel otherwise. I would like a drilling, but most of them are much heavier, and far more costly.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by Burkhard:
Fuhrmann,

what about stalking with an Bockdrilling or an insert barrel (the poormen's bockdrilling)?

For my peace of mind, I will stay away from the classic Bockdrilling with soldered barrels.
Too much trouble ...
And I do NOT like:
- the modern stuff a la Blaser
- the looks of "free-floating" barrels.
One rifled barrel is enough.
Insert barrels may be a nice toy. But I like to keep things simple.

Fuhrmann

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Why not use a BBF for mountain hunting?

That what I am thinking about:
a classic BBF with an extra set of shotgun barrels.
Please: no Blaser etc. stuff, no cocking/de-cocking device etc.
Just like Suhl used to produce it, with Anson-Deeley locks etc.
Rifle barrel 7x57R, 1 1/2-6 variable scope on Suhl claw mounts, 16 gauge shotgun barrels (maybe a bit unpractical today, but that's the way it ought to be)

Fuhrmann

What about one of the old CZs? they used to be available as sets, with a BBF and a set of shotgun BBLs.
But they are a bit heavier, if that is important to you.
Since Merkel still make O/U shotguns and BBFs, perhaps you can find what you are after there?

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
What about one of the old CZs? they used to be available as sets, with a BBF and a set of shotgun BBLs.

Please, you can't honestly compare a Brno with a decent gun from Suhl!
Of course I could have a gun made, but I'm afraid it will cost more than I can afford these days.

Fuhrmann

Cost is the reason I suggested a CZ. Please, no one would try and compare a mass produced gun with something hand made for you.
Do Krieghoff still do a BBF/ 20G set? I have only ever seen the one, it was quite nice (if you like the look of a Kreighoff shotgun) and, according to the owner shot very well.

Cheers, Dave.

Now, now boys .... pretensions notwithstanding, my BRNO 7.57R BBF will put an indefinite number of holes in 1 inch at 100 yards. My "Suhl-produced" drillings seemed to think it was beneath their dignity. So, I sold the drillings. Let the next guy satisfy himself with promise, rather than substance.

Nothing against Brno's!
They work, they shoot.
But my "dream gun" should also be used as a shotgun and will need a custom stock.
And we Europeans like expensive optics and expensive mounts. So here is no point to start with a cheap gun.

Fuhrmann

Sounds like you got a good one. My CZ would put the first 2 touching each other then start to string the others upward and to the right.
I know it was the different rates of BBL expansion and all that, but it was still always that nagging thought while I was doing a cull or something similar.
That's why I went to the Blaser BBF, the BBLs are not soldered together, and it will group quite well.
I just wish I could afford to buy something hand made and fitted to me! Till then (probably never!) the Blaser BBF will do me.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Do Krieghoff still do a BBF/ 20G set? I have only ever seen the one, it was quite nice (if you like the look of a Kreighoff shotgun) and, according to the owner shot very well.

Cheers, Dave.

Sorry, I do not know. I haven't really studied Krieghoffs, and the many models are confusing.
I have seen that they offer shotgun barrels for their side-by-side "Classic" double rifle.
And I guess you can have anything from Krieghoff, at a price.

Fuhrmann

Fuhrman

Have you checked the Heym, their Bockbüchsflinte is quite nice.

I think that 16ga is almost ideal gauge for combination weapons. It makes the gun a bit trimmer than a 12ga. Besides, with normal loads it's only a few grams in difference. I'm not very enthusiastic about heavy shot loads for fur or feather game.

When I buy a Drilling or Bockdrilling it will be in 16ga and in nice rimmed calibers suitable for the task. I think a drilling or bockdrilling is very versatile gun for casual stalking, the mixed hunts or driven hunts on roe deer with the occasional moose calf left on license etc

Cheers
/JOHAN

Johan,

I agree Heym would be nice.
Up to now I am only looking if some good used gun can be found. But such combos are quite rare.
For a new gun I lack the cash at the moment, I'm afraid.

Fuhrmann

waffen-shrum has decent prices

Fuhrmann

my gunsmith Jürgen Wilhelmi told me yesterday he will have some used combos in the next week.

http://www.lippe-waffen.de

Burkhard

Burkhard,

thanks!
I will check. It seems you did not buy that Drilling!

Fuhrmann

fuhrmann

I am just waiting for my "dream drilling" either a 3-lock drilling (maybe KRIEFHOFF Neptun)
or a bockdrilling. My gunsmith promised me, he will find one for me in the next months.

Burkhard

I am presently down to three drillings, three BBFs and a cape gun. I almost feel naked.

I'm nearly 60 now and remember as a small boy reading the old Stoeger Shooters Bibles, wondering if some day I would own just one drilling. At age 12 I got my first drilling, a wonderful Sauer made sidelock/side cock Charles Daley Diamond grade, given me by an old and dear family friend, Sam. It was my tip for having done his gardening all summer. It was in 12/12/30-30. The gun was taken from me in a house burglary when I was 18. I remember the day Sam gave me the drilling; he, my dad, and I went out of town down the Truckee River to a ranch that was a quail factory. With Sam watching that day, I went 10 for 10 on Valley Quail with the gun he'd just handed me a bit earlier. Sam was pleased at what he had done, my dad was beaming with pride, and I was walking on Cloud 9.

Three weeks later with that same drilling I came off the Limbo Mountains with 10 quail, 7 chucker and a 34"/5X5 mule deer, dragging my happy ass all the way down the mountain.

For me, the penultimate hunting weapon is a drilling, the ultimate being a vierling.

luv,

a wonderful story. I remember, when I was young
(I am 5 yers younger than you) the drilling was in hunter families something very special. It was a great day for a son, when his father gave the first time his drilling to him for hunting. The drilling was a family member and for the eldest son.


Burkhard

Just missed out on a nice old Merkel 16g/16g/8x57JRS. It came into the shop as part of a deceased estate, and lasted all of 15 minutes (didn't even make it onto the shelf before it was sold), and it was only due to the kindness of the new owner that I got to handle it.
Very nice.
Are the older guns made on different frame sizes for each bore? ie 12g, 16g, 20 and so on? this one felt a little different to the 12g one I have seen previously.
Most of the new guns all seem to use the one frame size for all guages, at least from what I can see, here in OZ.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Are the older guns made on different frame sizes for each bore? ie 12g, 16g, 20 and so on? this one felt a little different to the 12g one I have seen previously.

Cheers, Dave.

Yes, that's how it used to be, in the good old days.

Fuhrmann

Next question: do they make them with steel proofed BBLs? In OZ we need non toxic shot for waterfowl. With Bismuth at $65-85 AUD per box Vs steel at $15 per box, you can see why I might want a steel proofed gun.

Cheers, Dave.

I bought a Meffert 16/16/8x57jr last year on impulse and have never been sorry. It was just sitting there and one day I took it to the skeet range. It is full and fuller but I shot an 18 with it. In my area we may run up on hogs in the woods so it is very practical. Ther are also lots of turkeys abouts. I think it is an ideal gun for a walk in the woods.