I was hoping that I could get a little guidance. I really know very little about drillings although I've had a couple.

I just had some one offer to sell me two drillings as a package deal. One is a Kriegoff Semper. It appears to be in good mechanical condition with good bores but it appears to have been hunted with quite a bit . The caliber is marked as 16 X 16 X 8.9 X 72 a wild guess would be to say it is about 75 % finish. It does not have scope mounts and it does have a cartridge trap. To me it appears to be on face but the butt stock is a little loose

The second is really interesting to me. It is in 16/16/ the rifle barrel is stamped 8.8 with a 72 under it. It is a under lever hammer gun with the right trigger being a set trigger. The shot gun barrels look good but the rifle barrel has significant pitting in throat with the rest of the rifling some what grey. I can not find a makers name on it anywhere. It is marked nitro on the shot gun barrels. The fore arm has a crack. It too has a cartridge trap. Both guns would be fun to hunt with because you wouldn't have to worry about scratching the finish. Both guns will have to gone over by an experienced gun smith.


What do you think is a reasonable price range for the pair. Second question is What caliber is 8.8 x72 and 8.9x 72 ??? Would it be impossible to make or get ammo. Thanks for the replies.

They are 9,3X72R...ammo is available, but it is now very expensive, since Sellier & Bellot discontinued importing into the USA.

Thanks luvsafari. I wonder why they are marked 8.8 and 8.9 ? They are for sale at what I think is a very attractive price. I just have too many projects ect.

Thanks again.
e

German guns of the 1912-1939 period were marked this way using the bore diameter, not the groove diameter, so the marks always appear to be "undersize" for the actual chambering.

They also believed in pretty tight barrels in general, so it is not unusual to find 9,3x72R barrels measuring down into the .360" range for groove diameter. Makes it nice for reloading those with easy-to-find .358" bullets.

Thanks.

I'm thinking about buying the guns but I sure have been burned before could some one give me a guess at a price for these guns. A price where I could resell if I wanted and not lose a lot of money. I'm not interested in trying to make a profit but If I get them and the mood changes as it often does with me I would like to be able to sell with out losing a great deal.

I know that is a hard question but I'm sure a lot of folks know a heck of a lot more about this than I do.
e

quote:

Originally posted by els:
Thanks luvsafari. I wonder why they are marked 8.8 and 8.9 ? They are for sale at what I think is a very attractive price. I just have too many projects ect.

Thanks again.
e

Same reason 8X57JR guns are marked 7.7mm X 57.

I've bought too many old drillings with "just a couple things wrong with them" and I can tell you to do your math before taking the plunge. A very nice hammer drilling without any pimples should sell for about $1400. Take away for any corrections needed. The snap action underlever gun is another oddball worth about $1200-1500. You can easily get $500 in a new fore end. I just bought a very nice hammerless drilling in 16X16X8X57JR for $1500. That is a good benchmark. Older hammer drillings with problems don't sell well and don't increase in value well. Only buy these guns if you want to keep them. I have some 9.3X72R original ammo, brass and bullets if you do decide to take the plunge.

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
I've bought too many old drillings with "just a couple things wrong with them" and I can tell you to do your math before taking the plunge. A very nice hammer drilling without any pimples should sell for about $1400. Take away for any corrections needed. The snap action underlever gun is another oddball worth about $1200-1500. You can easily get $500 in a new fore end. I just bought a very nice hammerless drilling in 16X16X8X57JR for $1500. That is a good benchmark. Older hammer drillings with problems don't sell well and don't increase in value well. Only buy these guns if you want to keep them. I have some 9.3X72R original ammo, brass and bullets if you do decide to take the plunge.

Sage advice! You can spend far more than the drilling will ever be worth in no time.

Take the money and buy a good drilling from someone like Dale Nygaard or other members here.

I will also thoroughly agree with vol717 and luv2safari about older "well used" drillings being potential money pits. The one with the pitted rifle barrel would basically be un-resellable.

Another thing to know is that chamber dimensions for the 9,3x72R weren't standardized until pretty late and many older drillings won't chamber modern 9,3x72R ammo due to differences in case tapers and rim sizes.

Drillings can be a lot of fun and quite useful, but the learning curve for older ones can be somewhat steep.

If you plan to keep them & hunt with them, I wouldn't worry at all about the bore that isn't 100%. It means very little in accuracy; only re-sale and that will probably reduce the value by 10-20% if it's like you describe it. I have 8 drillings; mostly hammerless, but the one I usually grab and my favorite is a hammer (no name) 9.3x72R with a rough bore. Not because I don't have to worry about scrathing it up. Because it shoots extremely well and fits me great. I'm also a big fan of hammer drillings. I'll be Turkey hunting tomorrow AM with it.

Greg is right about the bores not meaning as much as you might think. My hammer 16/9,3X72R drilling was a real shooter, and I had a Charles Daly hammer drilling in 12 and 30-30 that dropped the 170gr bullets one on top of the other with its very dark bore.

Hammer guns ARE fun.

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:

Hammer guns ARE fun.

Now I know why I like you !

People in Europe love hammer drillings. They bring as much or more than a similar condition & equipped hammerless.

As for the bores hurting the value. I've sold 3 drillings in the past 6 months. 2 of them had light pitting and both went for @ $3500 & the buyers are tickled with them. No doubt they would have brought more with perfect bores, but I would guess they would have been @$4K guns.

I can hear the cash register with these two guns. I would tend to look further.

quote:

Take the money and buy a good drilling from someone like Dale Nygaard or other members here.

I will second this...I have dealt with Dale and would recommend him highly.

Greg finds some veeeerrry interesting things, too, from what I've seen.