Yesterday I acquired a Kreighoff, Semper Model, 44 cm long, insert barrel assembly. It is chambered for the .22 Winchester magnum cartridge and is for a 16 gauge chamber. My question is, does anyone know how, or know a source of info, to make the necessary adjustments to fit it to the chamber. The square-drive screw, which draws back the tapered “shoe†and locks the assembly in place, is pretty straightforward. However, I’m not so sure about the purpose of, and the proper adjustment of, the two smaller sliding “shoesâ€, which are each held in place by a pair of tiny fillister-head screws.

Ron, The square hole screw is the one that lockes the insert in the chamber. The 2 sliding pieces adjust the point of impact. Also, there is a larger screw looking piece that sets the headspace. Also, there should be a provision to return the insert back to the same radial position each time. I have fitted both the Kreighoff 22 & 44cm to my Sodia drilling and it is time consuming. Also you will have to mill a very small flat in the chamber rim recess for proper headspacing. I may still have the original installation instructions and could get you a copy if you like. Tom

Tom, If you could come up with the original instructions it would be a HUGE help. I would certainly pay whatever it costs to photo-copy, mail, etc.

Ron. I will find the instructions in the next few days. They are in some items I have in storage and I think i know where they are. I will scan and email to you. I some how deleted your email to me by accident before I read it. Please resend. Tom

Tom,
For some reason, I am now unable to send you a private message. My e-mail address is: mrrove@rogers.com.

...left some instructions over on NE as a reply there...

L2S

luv2safari,
Many thanks. I had already figured out the roll pin as an indexing device. I CAREFULLY filed a mating slot for it in a 16 bore extractor and it works fine. I was hoping for some "magical" advice re the two regulating shoes but I guess that it's just trial and error.

Hello Ron,
so I will have a try in english. First of all have ou tried to mail to Krieghoff,or an assembly instruction?

You have the two shoes one of them is in 10 o´clock position the other at 2 o´clock. The 10 shoe changes the impact from top left to down right on a diagonal. You will have to loosen the Screws carefully before shifting, shifting it towards the muzzle will change the to "up left".
The "2" shoe changes up or down shifting towards the muzzle means up. be carefull with the screws, they are easily damaged or lost. Schifting the shoes must be done carefully changes of 1mm is a lot. Sorry its not that easy to explain in english, but I hope this helped you.

Stephan

Stephan338,
Thank you very much for the helpful information. I wish that my German was 10% as good as your English!

Nicely explained Stephan. I wish I would have thought to ask how to adjust the point of impact when I got my insert. Dumb old me just went out there and shot it and messed around with screw for about two weeks. Of course, I had no directions. After about three fifty round boxes of 22 mags, I finally got it on center.
That is a lovely drilling congrats.
Bfly

...just added one to my Sauer 3000 12/30-06 this weekend. It was the shorter variety in 22 mag. I have it shooting 1.5" at 10:30 at 65 yards. Just a slight movement up on the upper left lug will bring it right in...ran out of ammo, as I had only a partial box. It shoots .5" groups at the 65 yd range. The in & out repeatibility is excellent. I shot a 5 shot group, pulling it out and back in each time, and still got under an inch.

Many thanks Stephan.

I missed this post, first time around!

Guys, the accuracy potential of these einstecklauf is really getting me quite excited. I didn't dare hope that it would provide repeatable zero after being removed.

Rgds Ian

Ian,

It is important that the notch you cut into the extractor is a tight fit for the small roll pin that re-locates the insert.

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Ian,

It is important that the notch you cut into the extractor is a tight fit for the small roll pin that re-locates the insert.

I always file the roll pin off or remove it, and just scribe a mark, with an engraving tool, on the extractor of the insert & drilling to re-align them. About half the ones I've had didn't have the roll pin. I think that (roll pin) was done so you could install them in the dark

Thanks guys!

The Sauer already has a witness mark scribed on the extractor.

Would this have been a factory standard - or indication that it has previously hosted an 'einstecklauf'?

Rgds Ian

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Thanks guys!

The Sauer already has a witness mark scribed on the extractor.

Would this have been a factory standard - or indication that it has previously hosted an 'einstecklauf'?

Rgds Ian

Most likely there was already an Insert inside. it

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Ian,

It is important that the notch you cut into the extractor is a tight fit for the small roll pin that re-locates the insert.

I always file the roll pin off or remove it, and just scribe a mark, with an engraving tool, on the extractor of the insert & drilling to re-align them. About half the ones I've had didn't have the roll pin. I think that (roll pin) was done so you could install them in the dark

I forgot to mention that. I do like to keep the roll pin for fast insertion; all mine drop into place into the small slots, but I can see the desire to not notch your extractor.

I like the notch too, and i have it in mine... It sure makes getting the insert in "right" much easier...

DM

I have a short 16ga. Krieghoff .22 LR insert barrel already, and have a Krieghoff 16x16x7x57R Drilling being delivered within days. I'm wondering how I can tell if my insert is designed for the right or the left barrel? It has "16R" engraved on a flat - so do I assume that it is made for the right barrel?

quote:

Originally posted by Longwalker:
I have a short 16ga. Krieghoff .22 LR insert barrel already, and have a Krieghoff 16x16x7x57R Drilling being delivered within days. I'm wondering how I can tell if my insert is designed for the right or the left barrel? It has "16R" engraved on a flat - so do I assume that it is made for the right barrel?

It's for the right barrel. Some aren't marked. But if you look at it as it would be inserted with the offset (rimfire) barrel up, the extractor will be at @ 7-8 o'clock (for a right bbl insert).

Thanks! that will give me some confidence as I attempt to follow the sighting-in instructions posted previously!

To add - it soon becomes apparent that the insert can only be accurately fired with the scope attached.

Set the front trigger and you have a precision release and no iron rear sight. Engage the rifle barrel and rear iron raises - but the insert cannot be fired! Grrrr. This assumes you have the same mechanically articulating rear sight featured on my Sauer.

Gerry mentioned the option of a manually erected rear sight. Could be worth considering - allows irons or scoped shots.

Rgds Ian

Ian,

It is not difficult for a good gunsmith to add a very small crossbolt in the rib to hold up the rear sight. Lee LeBas did many of these, and they worked GREAT! Flip the sight up, the crossbolt over, then bring the selector back.

You can also simply hold the sight blade up with your left index finger. Reach around the barrel and put the tip behind the blade while up, then move the selector back to use the right shotgun striker.

I have shot my insert using the sights, with the scope, and just looking right down the rib.

With some practise, you can just look down the rib and be plenty accurate for small game hunting.

The other day, i slid my 22WMR insert in, and fired two shots just looking down the rib...



I get similar groups with my LR insert, and consider the group plenty good for small game hunting...

DM

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Ian,

It is not difficult for a good gunsmith to add a very small crossbolt in the rib to hold up the rear sight. Lee LeBas did many of these, and they worked GREAT! Flip the sight up, the crossbolt over, then bring the selector back.

You can also simply hold the sight blade up with your left index finger. Reach around the barrel and put the tip behind the blade while up, then move the selector back to use the right shotgun striker.

I was wondering how to do that. I actually prefer non-automatic rear sights. If you are shooting slugs or sometimes turkey hunting, I like to use the rear sight.. and of course, when using the insert.
Would you have a close up picture of that modification to hold up the rear sight when the selector is in shotgun mode? I have a couple I'd like to put that feature on.

Thanks, Greg

Greg,

I don't have one at present. I'll see if Lee has any or photos. He just recently closed his shop, however. He has accepted the position of CEO for J.P. Sauer and Mauser of America and is moving to San Antonio TX.

As I recall, the cross pin was notched to allow the activating rod to slide under it, and he used it as a "keeper" for the cross pin. I never saw the parts on the bench, but he did a couple for me years back and several others for customers.

I, too, prefer the non-automatic rib rear sights, like on the Daly sidelock-sidecock guns. The one I recently sold shot Foster slugs within 4" of the rifle at 60 meters and made it a viable slug gun and years back had a Sauer 300 circa 1959-1960 with a non-auto rear blade that shot original Brenneke slugs right on top of the rifle hole at 80 meters.

These were all from right barrels, as is usual.

Been looking for a insert for a Merkel 16ga drilling that is available in the US. Krieghoff will only talk Krieghoff, K&S in Germany will not ship here. I'm interested in a centerfire cal., not rimfire.

rl1936

I just received a scanned copy of the installation instructions for the Kreighoff .22 insert from a kind fellow who has one for sale on Guns International. If any of you can post it here, send me your email and I'll forward it to you.

here are the scans of the directions, as promised by Vol717 first one:

second scan:

parts list (and last scan)

Thank you Longwalker! I never knew that Kreighoff sold a rim milling device for fitting the insert.

We need this made "stickey".

Thanks Longwalker!! I just got this same stuff from Krieghoff, but it was in an MDI file and when I converted it, It wasn't too legible. This is great; especially for someone who hasn't messed around with an insert barrel before.
Greg

Now I should send these instructions to a gunsmith who promised he could regulate my insert barrel and charged me a couple hundred dollars but never did get it to shoot to point of aim! It is a fairly complex device. I'm a little more sympathetic towards the gunsmith after reading the instructions.

quote:

Originally posted by Longwalker:
Now I should send these instructions to a gunsmith who promised he could regulate my insert barrel and charged me a couple hundred dollars but never did get it to shoot to point of aim! It is a fairly complex device. I'm a little more sympathetic towards the gunsmith after reading the instructions.

I'd be "demanding" my money back, and then finding a new smith!! I've done them myself, and it just isn't all that hard... It just takes a bit of time!

DM

I was talking to Kreighoff USA the other day and as an aside I asked them what they charge to install a Kreighoff .22 Mag insert in a Kreighoff drilling. I was surprised to hear that the cost is only $80! A well-known midwestern outfit quoted around $250 for the same job. Keep that in mind before you decide to do your own work, or trust your gun to a local smith.

I needed some other work done on my Kreighoff drilling, so I had them install the Kreighoff insert while they were at it. Although they originally quoted $80 to install a new insert, they revised the quote to $160 because the insert was used. I don't think this is a bad price for the amount of work involved. They must have used the milling device shown in the copy of the installation instructions above. They milled a tiny recess in the drilling's extractor to accept the insert's extractor. The recess looks like a tiny thumbnail slot. The roll pin sits behind the drilling's extractor and there is a slot on the back side of the extractor to accept the roll pin. It's an admirable bit of machining and in my opinion the only way to properly install an insert.

You can do it yourself with a needlenose file if you really want that roll pin in it. Most I see that are installed havce a square notch. Or you can just punch out the pin & scribe the extractor & insert. Takes @ 20 minutes or less to install one on average. Somewhat longer, (but not difficult) to regulate it.
Greg

Actually, when I took the insert out I could see that the notch goes all the way through the drilling extractor. The roll pin is a snug fit in the square notch. The hard part of the installation is the half-moon recess milled in the face of the drilling's extractor to accept the insert extractor. I have another .22 insert for my 12 gauge drilling that will be installed following Kreighoff's example.