Im planing buy Merkel 961 double rifle drilling for wildboar and deer hunting. Caliber i allready decide it will be 30R blaser and 20/76.
I dont have experience of this kind guns before and here in Finland those kind guns is so quite rare so real information is difficult get.
Main using will be drive hunting and of it i dont see any problem. But i will also use same gun by hunting in feeding place. So what kind accuracy i can realistic wait of this type gun. Usually shooting distace is about 50-60m and with it i dont see any problem. But i really hope/dream than gun accuracy will be enough of roedeer size game to 150m distance. So is that just dream or can i really wait it? Ofcourse i dont believe that both barrels hit in same point that distance but if we now speak only first barrel accuracy if scope have target by that. Its rare when need shoot so far and more so rare that need both barrels so dont need worried of it. But first barrel accuracy i hope will be less than 10cm in that 150meters. Ofcourse guns are not same but what is normal accuracy of this kind double rifle drilling?

Ukko
The short answer is yes, a drilling can be very accurate. Yes they have challenging aspects but when you know what your up against a drilling will easaly shoot to the performance you have mentioned. I infact did shoot a roebuck at a little over one hundred meters in Sweden with one of my drillings.

The main thing is don't let your barrel get hot and make the first shot count.

The mt reedbuck in this photo was shot from the rock outcropping you can see over my shoulder. About 250 yards.

Originally posted by Hkko

quote:

Ofcourse i dont believe that both barrels hit in same point that distance but if we now speak only first barrel accuracy if scope have target by that. Its rare when need shoot so far and more so rare that need both barrels so dont need worried of it. But first barrel accuracy i hope will be less than 10cm in that 150meters. Ofcourse guns are not same but what is normal accuracy of this kind double rifle drilling?

As fas as the accuracy of the gun being a double rifle as well as a drilling, The same rules apply. The proper mindset for a double rifle is to shoot it as it was desinged for. The double rifle guys here will be quick to tell you that your double is not desinged to be a single shot but I know where your coming from and I did some experiments like this myself a few years back.

Heres what just one barrel will do from my .338 doule rifle. The thing I've learned since then is that my double rifles shoot good enough that I don't need to resign my self to only one barrel for long range shooting.

forgot to mention this target was 100 yards wih scope on.

I think a good double rifle drilling should shoot groups at 100 yards under 3 inches.

My Blasers will shoot under 2".

I agree with NE 450 No2 in that 3" should be acceptable.

Depending on the size of the game and the shot distance grapefruit accuracy may be acceptable.

I am fortunate to own a Heym 37B deluxe 9.3/9.3/20 that produces golf ball accuracy with most anything I feed it. This is very unusual.

Good luck.

I'm jealous of AK shooters reedbuck and drilling! congratulations!

My double rifle drilling as very tough to get to shoot accurately, but it was a very old back action hammer gun, the most righteous action ever, and I had to form the brass and bullets were tough to come by (.356 not .358). one barrel printed 8" over the other at 100 yards on the first two shots. If the barrels were hot...well it just sprayed. I didn't have the time or energy to keep trying new powders and bullets to try to get it regulated.

Still took an elk, deer, antelope and plenty of birds with it but sold it and, of course, kind of regret it.

For a new double rifle drilling regulated at the factory it should shoot 3 - 5" at 100 yards. I'd get that guaranteed before I bought one though.

Just curious, are these 2 & 3" groups @ 100 yards 4 shot alternating barrel groups? If so, they shoot better than any DR or DR drilling Ive shot (or seen shot) .

Greg

Yes, I am actually looking at a group I fired with my Blaser D 99 Duo in 308/308/20ga that has 6 shots that is well under 1.5 inches.

My 9,3 D99 Duo usually shoots right at 2" or under.

Accuracy is only about half what the gun will do. The other half is what the shooter is willing to put into his rifle to make it do all of what its capable of.

If there is anyone anywhere that can make a double rifle shoot under 2" at 100 yards it's N.E.450#2.

Thanks for everyone of answer. This help me lots. I just afraid that i cant wait good enough accuracy but i think i have good change get accuracy what i hope.

Now just looking where get best offer and then just waiting...

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Accuracy is only about half what the gun will do. The other half is what the shooter is willing to put into his rifle to make it do all of what its capable of.

If there is anyone anywhere that can make a double rifle shoot under 2" at 100 yards it's N.E.450#2.

Good point, AK, but I've found most DR's I've shot or seen shot, just won't do anywhere near what he's getting from those guns. Some claimed theirs would shoot at that level, but it turned out they had 2 levels of accuracy... one in the case at the gun shop, and another on the range If the barrels aren't regulated to the same POI (or very close, it's hard to get them to shoot together, unless you put different loads in different barrels.. if they're off vertically, Or change your point of aim.. between shots.. Too much for me to remember
I always liked single shots anyway, which is the other reason I never fell in love with DR's.
It sounds like "450" has a pair of nice guns. I'd hang onto those.
Are any of the newer DR's adjustable for POI? I don't keep up with the new stuff. I built a O/U DR once that I made an adjustable wedge block under the forend in 30/40 Krag that shot well. I made it on a 28 ga SKB frame.
Greg

Yes I guess I do have to qualify this by saying properly regulated guns further refined by hand loading.

I think both Merkel and Blaser have adjustment screws for regulation.

Yes the D 99 Duos have a regulation adjustment feature, and it works well.

That is one reason I have them.

However by proper reloading experimentation it has not ben difficult to get double rifles to shoot good combined barrel groups, and also in most cases hit with the sights.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Yes I guess I do have to qualify this by saying properly regulated guns further refined by hand loading.

I think both Merkel and Blaser have adjustment screws for regulation.

They are not "further refined".

The reloader simply finds a load which matches bullet weight and velocity to which the barrels were originally regulated.

It's not that complicated.

Don't wish to piss anyone off, but I much prefer a double with a muzzle wedge and picturing a Brit or German sweating his balls off in a room filled with wax and smoke to have the barrels converge the old fashioned way.

Adjustment screws in the muzzle and rubber/plastic bottom ribs will never be investment class.

Just my opinion.

Don

Originally posted by Donald Soter

quote:

They are not "further refined".

Donald you can correct semantics all you want but if your double rifle is'nt regulating with the ammo your shooting in it you can correct that by hand loading.

When a gunmaker regulates a new double rifle he dose so with a specific brand and bullet weight of ammo.

A handloader will find a load that duplicates the ammo the gun was regulated for.

If the gunmaker did a less than perfect job of regulating and lets say at some distance the barrels crossed that can be corrected by a handloader. I would call that a refinement.

Also once the load the rifle was originally regulated for has been duplicated by the shooter/ handloader he can go on to find loads of differant bullet weights and types that will also regulate with that rifle. I would also call that a refinement but call it what you will I have personally found that my handloads improved things.

The one thing that really helped me in the end was not so much my loads but it was input from N.E.450#2 He sat down at my reloading bench and improved on my .338.

Akshooter,
As I have said before yout 338 Win Mag Double Rifle is one of the nicest doubles I have shot.

quote:

Akshooter,
As I have said before yout 338 Win Mag Double Rifle is one of the nicest doubles I have shot.

Thanks Mr. T. I plan on takeing it on Saterday to Birchwood. The Alaska chapter of D.R.S.S. is having another shoot at Noon. Come on up you can stay at my place.

I wish I could.

I may try to plan a trip up next year.

Give you time to get your plane in the air. I need to shoot a brown bear with my 9,3... or my 400...

If you want I will stay a month or two and help you guide a few other fellas. I just love to be in the field...

Sounds like a plan.

My clunky old Valmet will put 6 shots in 2.5" at 100yds. Each barrel will group in 1"with the composite at about 2.3"-2.5" That is using Norma 201 and Nosler 286 gr Partitions,

A double rifle drilling can be very accurate.But you have to use the round the barrel set is regulated for .And you must be very accurate with timing of the two barrels. Here some double shots taken with my Krieghoff Optima double rifle drilling.
The first pic two double shots with the 8x75RS barrel set. The last one a double pair with the 470NE barrel set. Both shot from the bench at 100 meters.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Ukko
The short answer is yes, a drilling can be very accurate. Yes they have challenging aspects but when you know what your up against a drilling will easaly shoot to the performance you have mentioned. I infact did shoot a roebuck at a little over one hundred meters in Sweden with one of my drillings.

The main thing is don't let your barrel get hot and make the first shot count.

The mt reedbuck in this photo was shot from the rock outcropping you can see over my shoulder. About 250 yards.

That is good advice, and it is true that all well made drillings are accurate if loaded properly, and as you say don't get them too hot!

One extra problem that you have with a double rifle, drilling! there you have the regulation problem that you don't have with a single rifle barrel and two shot barrels. However once you find the load that hits the sweet spot, you are in like Flinn! The double rifl single shot tube drilling is the only type that gets my juices flowing!

................Congratulations to the origenal poster on his new Merkel double rifle drilling!

Am not at home to look at the barrel rib and I do not recall who made my double 9.3x74R over 20 guage. It is German, I think from Cologne, and a very high quality blitz action with scroll engraving, praise the L--d, no deer that look like horned daschunds. It will make 8 shot groups, four from each barrel, that stay under 2 3/4" at 100 yards from bench rest with the open barrel sights xmoked to blacken them, using a Merit adjustable peep disc on my
shooting glasses to sharpen up the sight picture.

So years has gone and finally i got my Merkel. Model is same what i think 4 years ago and caliber also. So Home is now Merkel 961 2 x 30R Blaser, 20/76 gun.

But does anyone know what ammunition this gun has regulated? I try allready take 2 month ago contact to Merkel and ask them but still not any answer.
Im not plan use any factory ammo but its help lot make my own if just know what kind i try copy.

Terve Ukko

If yours drilling would be mine I would test shoot RWS UNI Classic 11,7 g ammo. This is just a wild guess but there isn't so many factory ammo for this caliber.

Given that you are looking at the 30R I assume you are looking at a pretty new rifle. I am sure you will get good individual barrel accuracy from both barrels - more than enough so that you will have confidence in using say the right barrel for long range sniping, even if the 2nd barrel doesn't shoot quite to the point of aim at 150yds. It's the first shot that kills.

One thing with drillings and combination guns is that they don't shoot like bolt actions off bipods. You need to learn or relearn proper rifle control - firm grip on forend, butt held into shoulder and a proper squeeze to break the trigger. The rifle will do its bit, you need to do yours.

Why 30R? Have a look at the 7x65r as well - you might find better availability of ammo, and May well be a lot cheaper. In terms of terminal effect it's a bit like comparing 30-06 to 7x64 - game won't know the difference.

Well thanks of igorrock advice. I think same that this 11,7g class bullets would be best and hopely next week will get confirm of it.

And what come question of this caliber there is not even so many choice.

http://www.merkel-die-jagd.de/...-961l-961ls-96l-96ls

So there is choice of 30-06, 30R blaser, 8x57IRS and 9,3x74R. I really like use fast bullets (i know its not main idea of this style gun) and this 30R Blaser fits best for me. Anyway game what i will hunt with this is mainly smaller and whit those .30cal bullets its fine. And this is also really light weight gun so recoil not grow too big for fast second shot. And like i said i anyway make my ammo my self so there is no matter of selection of factory ammo.

So lets see now what kind accuracy gun will give. Slugs i allready test and best group give Rotweill brenneke and its shot 5-6cm group of 50meter distance. So it will be enough for it. I hope i can use DDuplex monolite but accuracy was about 15cm at same distance so i think brenneke will be what i use. And also try some sellier bellot and "accuracy" was +50cm so those is better throw by hand.

Ukko, good luck with your DR drilling. It sounds as if it will be a great hunting rifle.

And, I love your quote about Stalin, wonderful!

UKKO

Congratulations on your fine new drilling!

It seems about perfect for hunting here in my desert mountain western United States. I wish I owned it, and you had a better one.

When I once owned a pre-war double rifle drilling in 8X57JR and 16 gauge I relied mostly on the right barrel, but I did work on my loads until I found a load that almost merged at 200 meters by speeding up the velocity and using lighter bullets. It didn't regulate to the open sights anymore, but it was very accurate used with a scope.

Drillings are funny animals that can be hard to tame completely. One half the fun of owning them is taming them.

Congrats with a fine Drilling!

My 961L in 8x57IRS will put 2 shot(R-L) in about 2,5 inches at 100meters.
When using only the right barrel I can put 5 shots in a cluster of about 1 inch at the same distanse!

I've got mine regulated with the Norma Oryx 196grs.

M

Ukko-hyvä..... WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS???????????????

Any hunting success yet?
I'm drooling on a Merkel double rifle drilling myself also.
How is the Merkel to shoot? Does it take recoil well?
Any problems so far?

- Lars/Finland

This is a 3 shot right barrel group from my Merkel at 100yrds. Both barrels group about 1.5" at the same distance.

Well i allmost forget this topic but here are some mind of my Merkel.

First of all i love it... i think its most important. I had use gun quite lot and i think i have shot by +50 animals whit it after last january. Huge part of game are pheasant because i join 2 days pheasant group hunt with this gun. I know its not best for that kind hunt but i want practise and there i got. By rifle barrels i has got some white tails, predators (fox, raccoon dor, badger) and also some forest birds (urogallus). And olso some beavers. But like i said i really love this gun and use it many kind hunt.

And other experience. Gun was used when i bought it but i believe ex owner has shot only couple shot by it. Biggest problem was that barrels adjust was quite far away of good and first work was send gun for gun smith and he targeting barrels hit to same point. And now accuracy is good enough for my use. First i take contact of Merkel dealer here in Finland but when they heard i had bought it from Germany they didnt want help me or do anything for it. Really strange opinion but what i can do. But luckily we have great gun smith here in Finland who do all what i need. So now accuracy is about 5-6cm group by 4 shot (2 shot at each barrel). And this has shoot so fast what can change new ammo to gun. So it can be better but its enough for me.

And for shot gun barrel i use mainly only handload steel shot. Its work perfectly and original plan was that i use slugs in shotgun barrel but i forget it. I have 2pcs of perfect rifle barrel what is enough of all and shotgun i keep of shotgun and use it for smaller game. Its really funny that my first mind was that i dont have so much use for shotgun but now it looks that its are most used barrel of hole gun.

Unofortunately i dont know how add photos here so not those at this time.

I had only one really bad feeling of this gun... Why i wait so long and bough it so late... Really one of best gun what i own.

Hello Ukko,

If you have contacted to Eloranta it has been a good luck for you that they didn't have any interest to yours drilling. That´s why the "gunsmith" they use to overhaul their weapons do not have any competence to adjust/repair any drilling or double rifle, except VALMET 412 etc. (perhaps).

Hi Igorrock

Yes i full agree them costomer service and i dont see any reason never anymore take contact to Eloranta of any issue. Im looking allready new drilling and its sure i will not buy it from them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ukko:
Im planing buy Merkel 961 double rifle drilling for wildboar and deer hunting. Caliber i allready decide it will be 30R blaser and 20/76.
Usually shooting distace is about 50-60m and with it i dont see any problem. But i really hope/dream than gun accuracy will be enough of roedeer size game to 150m distance. So is that just dream or can i really wait it? Ofcourse i dont believe that both barrels hit in same point that distance but if we now speak only first barrel accuracy if scope have target by that. Its rare when need shoot so far and more so rare that need both barrels so dont need worried of it. But first barrel accuracy i hope will be less than 10cm in that 150meters. Ofcourse guns are not same but what is normal accuracy of this kind double rifle drilling?

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Ukko
The short answer is yes, a drilling can be very accurate.
The main thing is don't let your barrel get hot and make the first shot count.

The mt reedbuck in this photo was shot from the rock outcropping you can see over my shoulder. About 250 yards.

As I posted earlier on this subject below is a better explanation of the double rifle drilling!

It is true that a drilling can be very accurate to very long range, especially if the drilling is a double shotgun with a rifle barrel between them on the bottom. This type will usually shoot very well when scoped.

However, that is not what we are discussing here! The firearm in question is a DOUBLE RIFLE DRILLING. That is a Zebra of a different stripe.

The double rifle drilling is first and foremost a double rifle, and operates by the same rules that any S/S double rifle operates by!

If a double rifle is properly regulated, it will shoot the center of each barrels individual group on it’s own side of the aiming point by half the distance between both barrel’s bore center.
As the range gets longer each barrels individual group with get wider so that the LEFT side of the RIGHT barrels group will mix with the RIGHT side of the LEFT barrels group. The aiming will remain in the center of the composite group of BOTH BARRELS! Because of this fact the only thing needed for long range with either barrel is a change in elevation(OR holdover).

There is absolutely no reason to use only one barrel by sighting in only that barrel. The barrels on a S/S double rifle that is shooting proper regulating loads shoot the barrels parallel and the centers of each barrel’s individual group remain side by side and do not cross at any range! If you will only sight in for one barrel you may as well buy a traditional drilling with only one rifle barrel and two shot barrels and save the extra cost of buying a DOUBLE RIFLE drilling.

My cheap Russian combo 12 by 7x57R well keep 3 shots under a inch at 100 after that one needs to let it cool down. Plus it puts slug to the same point of aim out to 35 yards.

That said it is an only ok rifle and only ok shotgun.

I much prefer my rifles or shotguns for the intended purpose.

I discovered this thread as I was looking for info on the Merkel rifledrilling in practical use. I just piced up one myself, in 2x9,3x74R and 20-76. It is a looker! Cant wait to start tinkereing with loads and try to maker her shoot :-). Here are some pictures:

Open sights, 100 meters. Norma Vulcan 255 grains bullet, 61,5 grains of Norma 203B powder, 92mm COL.