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I just acquired another drilling. It is chambered for 8X57JR (.318 diameter). It was regulated for 15 gram (231 grain) bullets according to the proof marks. The rifle shoots a foot high at 100 yards with 196 grain S&B ammo, so I'll have to load for this one unless I put on a higher front sight. Does anyone know of a source of .318, 231 grain bullets? How about a swage to reduce .323 bullets to .318? Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | ||
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Hawk sells a 220gr. You might try that one. If the S&B 196 shoots high, I would expect the 231gr load to print even higher. You might try a 170gr bullet for a 32 Special. They are .321 and have been a long standing and old solution to reloading for the J bores for years, before we had the present selections. You might also try the Hawk .318 180gr bullets at moderately fast velocities. Don't load drillings hot, however. Lighter-faster bullets tend to print lower.  | |||
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Not sure what you've got here, a double rifle drilling with a shotgun barrel under, or a double shotgun drilling with a rifle barrel under. If the latter, expect you should go with a heavier bullet. Woodleigh makes a 250 gr. .318 bullet that Midway sells. Expect that might work. Kynamco (new Kynoch) makes .318 cartridges in both 180 gr. and 250 grain bullets. Regard | |||
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I just want to point out a little terminology... You "swage" a bullet when going up in diameter, and you "draw" it down when going smaller. I know this doesn't sound right, but when it comes to bullets that's the way it is. I've drawn down .323" to .318", i've also light loaded the .323's, and shot them in .318" guns. Corbon will make you a draw die and punch if that's what you'd like to do... DM | |||
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several German Manufacturers like RWS still sell .318 Bullets, also Degol in Belgium has Bullets in .318 | |||
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Buffalo Arms http://www.buffaloarms.com/ makes & sells 318 bullets from 15o grain up. I bought some (150 SP)last month and, as always, disected one on the milling machine. They are very well made with thick jackets tapered forward and are very tightly swaged. They are also pretty reasonable @$35/100. I was going to make a swaging die to bump up 30 cal bullets but no need to as long as those guys are there. Nice folks to buy from too. I made a die to swage my 9.3 bullets because no one (reasonably) made a bullet for the 9.3X72. All are too heavy and/or too tough for the lower velocity. Works great. I use Speer 18o gr 35 remington bullets & swage them up to .366. Very accurate & very effective on game. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Vol717, L-2-S's idea below an excellent one.....
I had a German Forester friend who had a beautiful old Hammer Drilling; his favorite rifle. It was chambered for one of the pre-smokeless powder 8mm J bore German Forester blackpowder cartridges. Those 32 Win. Spl. bullets were just the ticket for that old Drilling, accurate and deadly on Wild Boar; after he got done reloading them. I picked up 5 boxes of Remington bullets for $1.00 a box at a Garage Sale in the States and brought them back for him.......I had lots of hunting invitations with him after that! As for the modern selections the only one I've tried (and they perform perefectly) for a J bore 8x57R Drilling is the (as Stephan noted) RWS .318" 196 grainer. Cheers, Number 10 | |||
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Yep. Most "J" bores are .320 in actuality, and the .321 bullets are exceedingly accurate in them, far more than true .318. My 8X57JR cape gun shoots much better with the .321 bullets.I've never found any pressure problems using them. P.O. Ackley found that bullets size themselves to the bore long before pressures become a factor, as they move into the bore. | |||
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There are a few @.320" J bores, but most are smaller than that. I slugged 2 last week that were .3175 & .318 (both drillings). Some of the J bores were opened up with what the Germans refer to as an "olive", because of the shape. It was apparently pulled through the bore to open it up a few thousandths to use S bullets. So, before you use 323 or even .321's in your JR, be sure to have it slugged by someone who knows what they're doing. That said, I wouldn't have a problem working up a load using .323 bullets in a .320 bore. Starting low & watching carefully for pressure signs. It shouldn't be a problem with reasonable loads. The Buffalo .318 bullets measure @ .3175 and shoot very well in the one gun I've tried them in. Reports from other J shooters echo that result. I recall someone (seems it was Parker Ackley) writing about a guy who had a Jap Arisaka, chambered for 308, who complained of recoil. When it was checked, it was discivered to have a 6.5 mm bore. Apperently someone had ground the reamer pilot down to make the chamber. So each shot was squeezing the bullet down from .308 to .260" with no apparent harm, other than the recoil the guys was complaining about. Wonder what the accuracy of that gun was  Normally, chambers can stand a lot of pressure before any harm is done. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Greg, I've slugged 25-30 J bores over the years, and have yet to find one smaller than .319, and most were .320 with a few at .321. None were any later than 1944 guns, however, and most were 1930s guns. The two I'm presently shooting, a Triebel/Ausgburg drilling and a Sauer cape gun slug .320 and .321 respectively. The cape gun is far more accurate with the 170gr .321 old design Rem Core-Lokt bullets than anything else I've fed it...may different bullets, brass, and powder over 20+ years. It shoots just satisfactorily with S&B ammo and a tad bit better with OLD Norma ammo. My reloads using the .321 Core-Lokts are the right recipe. All these guns have quirks, I've found, and playing with different safe loads is necessary. I've tried some old DKT 180gr .318 and some newer Hawk 231gr bullets. Both were OK, but not sensational. Older Norma .318s seem to be the ones that work best for both guns as a combination; I don't want to load for each gun. | |||
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Interesting. I have no idea how many J bores I've measured over 40 years or so gunsmithing, but have found the majority to be under .320. You have to be careful not to just drive that slug in and back out. Bores are often larger at the breech & the muzzle than in the center area. I think it's from cleaning as much as the rifling machine or reamer. I would also think that there were probably some variations when they were new. These guns have a reputation for accuracy and I have found that to be true. Most of the ones I've grouped whould shoot close to MOA. I'd think they would have to have some uniformity to attain that degree of accuracy with .318 bullets. I've had @ 6 people tell me the Buffalo bullets were exceptionally accurate in their JR's & J's. For the price, it's worth a try. They are also the only lighter (150 gr)318's I've seen. Many of these barrels also have pretty slow twists which lend themselves well to the lighter bullets: especially with light loads. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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I slug the entire length, from chamber to out the muzzle and use a Mitutoyo dial caliper. A micrometer may have been more accurate, however. I agree completely about the twist rates, and using lighter bullets. It may account for my better results for all these years with the 170 Core-Lokts. I'll have to give the Buffalo bullets a try, as others have said they worked well. I have gone to R15 powder exclusively for the 8X57; it seems to be made for this round. | |||
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I never knew that, and perhaps RCBS didn't either. Rock Chuck Bullet Swage Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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Another possibility and my German gunsmithing buddy agrees is that those .320-321 bores had been opened up with the "olive" button to use .the "S" bullets. They are usually not marked and most don't get all the way out to .323. My dentist & shooting partner here bought one earlier this winter that was supposed to be a J bore but miced out to .322. Very accurate with std 8mm bullets. I like the interlock 170 rd nose in the S bore. Speaking of JR's I have a good hunting drilling here in that caliber that I will be selling. Nothing fancy, but good & tight and original with an old steel scope. Anyone interested can PM me. I'll try that R-15. Always looking for good recipes  "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Well, are you sure RCBS wasn't talking about useing there Rockchucker press to "swage" bullets? As in the 70's it was the in thing to do, buy dies for your R.Chucker and "swage" bullets. And, back then like today, swageing bullets ment makeing bullets bigger around not smaller... In the 70's is when i started swageing bullets, but i bought dedicated swage presses, that i still have today. DM | |||
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It's probably just usage, but I always felt you could "swage" anything up or down by forcing it into a shaped vessel. Like a swage block in the forge. I drive a hunk of hot steel through a smaller hole and "swage it down" (hammering it smaller is called "drawing it" or hammer a smaller hot hunk into a larger shaped vessel and swage it up to that size & shape. On the other hand, when you expand a bullet in a swage die, It's actually called "upsetting" it, I believe. Now, what was it we were talking about again "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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draw dies | |||
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That's a good explanation of the Corbin reducing dies and their use. Again though, it's just usage. The term "swage has been used for 500 years to denote shaping metal (up or down or to different shapes) Drawing has been a blacksmithing term as has swaging, upsetting,forging (hot)... etc for about that long as well. All of those could fit the generic dictionary definition of swage ("to shape") My experience (to get back to the original post) agrees with Corbins that (jacketed) bullets shouldn't be reduced more than .005" (except very large ones, which can go a little more) "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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