I'd really like a drilling for turkey season here in the hill country. Why? Because exotics and hogs are also moving around. Hunting from a blind isn't an issue - take a shotgun and rifle, but walking around with both and a call, starts to get cumbersome.

I want functional, not fancy. Ideally, two 12 Ga barrels and a rifle barrel in a non-magnum I load for - 8x57 (not rimmed), 30-06, 308 Win, 7mm-08, 7x57 (soon), 6.5x55 (soon), 6.5x54MS, 243 Win (maybe to light).

Everything I see if pretty expensive. I have seen some older drillings that would take some work that usually 16 gauge with some sort of rimmed cartridge. Not ideal, but less $$$. Did see a couple from the 1960's that were a few thousand and 12 Ga, non-rimmed, etc.

Questions:
1. Any new manufacturers of affordable drillings? Or even 2 barrel 12 Ga + Big Game cartridge?
2. Thoughts on used drillings? Look to be 1st half 20th century

Thanks!

What about the FinnClassic system? I know it's only 2 barrels, but I can get a 12" in 3" with a custom option for 3.5" mag and select from a # of cartridges including 308 Win.

And the price looks good.

Don't turn your nose up at a drilling or combination gun in 16 ga and 8x57 JR. Probably the most common (and affordable) calibers in pre war guns. I have a JP Sauer drilling and a Kettner combination gun in those chamberings. They have accounted for numerous turkey, hogs, and deer. S&B ammo for the 8x57JR is easy to find. 16 ga. even in 2 1/2" is readily available.

A few opinions from a guy that's been shooting drillings for over 20 years.

In a drilling 12 ga. is clubby, awkward, too heavy and mostly unnecessary. 16 is more than adequate and while a bit higher than 12 & 20 loads, several loads are readily available. If you handload 16 is a non-issue.

Most pre-war drillings have 2 1/2 shotgun chambers. Easily rectified if one is so inclined by having the chambers lengthened or, just as easily used as is. 2 1/2 ammo is available or can easily be manufactured at you loading bench. Decades ago I had a Meffert drilling in which I had the chambers lengthened. I have regretted it ever since and subsequently traded it...20 years later.

While rimless cases are very successfully done in break action firearms, rimmed is better. 8 X 57R in a drilling is readily available and if you don't handload ammo is also available.

On pre-war drillings, more often than not the name on the rib is NOT the maker of the drilling. Most were made in Suhl or Zella-Mehlis "for the trade" and not, as they are often erroneously referred to a "guild guns". If in good condition any should be suitable. The only warning I would give is if the drilling is 8 X 57R ascertain whether the groove diameter is .323 or .318. Yes, .323 was adopted in 1905 by the German military but sporting rifle barrels in .318 were still being used after WWI. If anyone doubts that I'd like to show you a few that reside in my toy box. You want .323.

Post war drillings I am basically ignorant of regardging who made what or model #'s. Between the wars very few had model names or numbers.

It would seem obvious that any of the "big" names would be good, depending on condition; Keieghoff, Sauer, Merkel, Heym to name a few. None of mine have any of those names on the ribs and their quality is still excellent.

Yes, good ones are a bit pricey. You should still be able to find a fine piece for around 2K.

Yes, I think a 16x16 with a rimmed cartridge would be nice. Goal is to find a nice one for around $2K or so. Seen some up to $3.5K.

JONP has a Sauer in the classifieds.

"16/70 barrels over 7x65R, front set trigger, 3 pin type cocking indicators. Hensoldt 1.5-6x36 scope on claw mounts in super condition.

$2500 includes shipping and a 3 day no fire inspection.

I almost pulled the trigger on this myself but an offer I had made on a Mannlicher Schoenauer was unexpectedly accepted. I had claw rings built for my combination gun and they cost me $700 just for the rings. This looks like a good deal to me.

I don't like drillings with 12/70 barrels...they are heavier and bulkier than 16/70 barrels. The 16 gauge will fire 1 1/4 ounces of shot and do anything the 12 will do. A 16 gauge will fire a 350 grain slug at 1400/ft sec which should be all the hog medicine needed. The rimmed cartridges are easy to find in the US. I like the 7x57R and 7x65R. The 8mm (.323) is a 30 06 equivalent out to 200 yds and there isn't any meaningful separation til 300 yds. Find a drilling with Antinit barrels in 16 gauge....that's the real ticket.

Austin, have you checked with Simpson's Ltd. in Galesburg, Illinois? They usually have quite a few of what appear to be pretty decent drillings, some with and some without rings, bases and scope. Some are fairly priced, it seems to me. I've bought a few rifles from them and my experience has always been very good. Most I talk to who have dealt with them have similar feelings.

If you have to have new and shiny, I doubt Simpson's is going to have anything suitable. If a well made, excellent drilling with "character" is suitable, they should have something.

I expect you know it, the only difference between loading 8 X 57 and 8 X 57R is the shell holder. Jon's drilling seems a good buy. There's no fly's on the 7 X 65R!

https://www.simpsonltd.com/col.../drillings-and-combo

Thanks - some nice guns.

I think the next step is for me to handle some of them. ALso going to look at the FinnClassic 612 - I know it's 2 barrels only.

When I was stationed at Ft Stewart in 1980, everything was in season at once, so I bought a JP Sauer side hammer drilling, 16x16 x9.3-72R.
Nothing wrong with that combo and it handled very well. I did shoot at a squirrel once with the 9.3 barrel because the selector was in the wrong place. Missed.
I go to Simpsons all the time and he has some nice ones less than $2k.
Don't be afraid of the 16 gauge; it used to be the second most popular gauge.

My view.

12g and 30-06 is universal.

Smaller 16/20g frame units handle better.

Stocks are too low for scopes on the sauer 3000.

Best drilling is a blaser D99 in 20g and 308.

Hunting with a drilling

Austin, I've dealt with Simpson's, too, and will again, but while I enjoy the drilling, I can't imagine feeling undergunned with a BBF--an o/u rifle/shotgun. I have one in 7x57R/12ga (2-3/4") and it serves me well. I reload for it with my regular 7x57 dies and a 30-30 shellholder, no problem. There's one on GB as we speak, in 16ga and, I think, 6.5x57, which is a very similar cartridge to the 6.5 Swede and a very effective deer/elk round. About the 16ga--the first kid on my block to get his own shotgun was my friend "Little Joe"; his dad brought him home a shiny new Model 12 in 16 gauge. Joe was a bit miffed; he said "gee, Dad, I wanted a 12 gauge" and I'll never forget his father's reply: "Jonas, where I grew up, it was well understood that a man who had to carry a 12 gauge was unsure of his manhood!"
Good luck on your search!
windy

I would second / third those who say go for a 16 bore and 7x57r or 65r. They handle well. Friend has an old Heym with a Dural frame and it handles like a shotgun. Many of the 12s are just too heavy.

Do not though discount a good over and under combination. They handle much better as a shotgun, and if you are lucky you will find one with a pair of shotgun barrels as well. My take is that you are pottering about a single shot shotgun is no hardship. Ok you might only one duck or pheasant at a time but that’s good enough. But you can also take something 4 legged.

I would second / third those who say go for a 16 bore and 7x57r or 65r. They handle well. Friend has an old Heym with a Dural frame and it handles like a shotgun. Many of the 12s are just too heavy.

Do not though discount a good over and under combination. They handle much better as a shotgun, and if you are lucky you will find one with a pair of shotgun barrels as well. My take is that you are pottering about a single shot shotgun is no hardship. Ok you might only one duck or pheasant at a time but that’s good enough. But you can also take something 4 legged.

If it has a pair of shot barrels - that’s what you use if you are serious about birds.

I have purchased 2 West German post war Sauer Drillings from Simpsoms. One a 7mm and the other a 7.65. Both are 16 ga. They really are a great all-around hunting gun. Especially if you find a .22LR or Magnum insert for the shot barrel. I prefer the post war West German guns over those made in the former DDR but I think either will meet your needs.
I have purchased other guns from Simpsons and have always found them good to deal with.
Mike

There are exceptions to every rule. I have a 16X16X9.3X74R a 20/8X57JRS and a 16/7X57R. All weigh under 7 lbs. These are the last of about 40 guns over the years. My 16/7X57 is a Sauer duralumin and it weighs 6 pounds.
But if I could only choose one it would be a JP Sauer 12GA with a rimmed rifle cartridge. My recommendation for your application is 7 X65R. The Sauer 30 or 3000 (same gun) will weigh 7 lb with a steel receiver and 6.5 lb with a duralumin receiver. Anyone who has used drillings will always recommend a rimmed rifle cartridge. It is too difficult to extract a fired rimless case from the rifle barrel way down there below the shotgun barrels. I too like combo guns. In fact I have a Valmet 412 for sale in 12/7X65R.

12g and 7x65R is what i have. Ceracote the barrels and you can hunt anywhere with it.

If I could own only one gun, it would be a Drilling. 16 or 12 doesn’t matter, and I’ve owned many. My current is a 12/12/9.3x72. It’s very accurate, beautiful, a sidelock JPSauer, and easy to carry. I don’t like the Greener safeties, that’s why I settled on this Drilling.

I prefer the triplett or double rifle drilling.

I had to have a drilling so I got one. I never hunted with it. Think I did shoot it once at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
I had to have a drilling so I got one. I never hunted with it. Think I did shoot it once at the range.

It's too bad you never experienced the joy of a mixed hunt, using a drilling. I've killed about 1/2 of my grouse while deer hunting with a drilling. The deer caught hell, too.

Here is the answer to a one-gun for everything but dangerous critters. It's my Kreighoff Trumpf Dural in 16 and 7X65R. With the 22 LR insert for it it is medicine for small game, upland game, and four-footers to and including elk/moose.

It has a top tang safety and rifle cocker/de-cocker and wears a 1.5-6 Zeiss in claws.

Over the past 30 years or so, I have owned four drillings, but now I only own one that I bought from Loves2safari this year. It is a 16ga/8X57JRS (.323 dia bullet)on the rifle barrel with a scope in claws,

My favorite however, happens to be CAPE GUNS. I have two of those. One being a V.Haffner, 20ga/577Berdan,black powder with Damascus barrels and Jones under lever exposed hammers.
The other is a H.Berella 16ga/8x57JR (.318 dia). It is a top lever, exposed hammer with steel barrels. Cape guns are side by side barrels and both mine have then rifle barrel on the right shotgun on the left.

Both these cape guns have taken a box car load of game over the last 25 years I have owned them.
My next will be a double rifle drilling, with the rifle barrels being chambered for 9.3X74R, and the shot barrel being 20 ga hammerless with a scope in claws.
…………………………………………….FUN guns

Mac,

I share your affinity for cape guns.

This is the only one I have at present, a pre-war Sauer in 12ga and 8X57JR with a second set of 12ga SXS barrels with dedicated forend. It now wears a 3X Leupold P&CH, which I consider about perfect.






This gun...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lawdog:
Don't turn your nose up at a drilling or combination gun in 16 ga and 8x57 JR. Probably the most common (and affordable) calibers in pre war guns. I have a JP Sauer drilling and a Kettner combination gun in those chamberings. They have accounted for numerous turkey, hogs, and deer. S&B ammo for the 8x57JR is easy No it's not readily available!

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lawdog:
Don't turn your nose up at a drilling or combination gun in 16 ga and 8x57 JR. Probably the most common (and affordable) calibers in pre war guns. I have a JP Sauer drilling and a Kettner combination gun in those chamberings. They have accounted for numerous turkey, hogs, and deer. S&B ammo for the 8x57JR is easy No it's not readily available!

I saw it coming and salted 20 boxes away. I also scored some bullets just in case.

Sellier and Bellot 8x57 JR (Rimmed Mauser) Ammo - 20 Rounds of 196 Grain SP Ammunition
At AMMO .com $22.00 per box

After a quick internet search I found several places that list it. Several of them are out of stock but there are some that list it a around $22. I have found the Sellier and Bellot to be good ammo. The 196 grain bullet is a bit heavily constructed but a high shoulder shot on white tail is big medicine. I would not hesitate use it on elk/moose size game. I too bought 20 boxes and scored some Woodleigh.318 200 grain bullets as well.

Who has it in stock right now?

On the other hand buy a reasonably priced J. P.Sauer or equal drilling! They are so cool to have and handle!

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
On the other hand buy a reasonably priced J. P.Sauer or equal drilling! They are so cool to have and handle!

Some merit in that, but cape guns handle and carry so nice.

Also of note, a decent cape gun (hard to find) will cost more than a decent drilling. Drillings are a bargain.

Around here in CT it's not 'legal' to carry a center fire rifle most of the time. Thus a drilling might not be legal here.

An Ithaca Deerslayer would do it all with more flexibilty.

In states where coyote and small game season run concurrently, what reason would there be to not being able to carry a combination gun?

My feeling on Drillings are quite intense. I have shot both big game and hundreds of quail,grouse, wooodcock, and pheasant with a Drilling. I do not like the side safety on most Drillings, so when I found a JP Sauer Sidelock with a traditional top lever selector for the safety and a side selector for rifle or shotgun, I had to have it. I despise Greener side safeties, although I’ve owned many. My Drilling is a J P Sauer Sidelock in 12x12x9.3x72. Its beautiful, accurate, and the 9.3x72 is a great menace to big game.The Germans knew what they were doing when they invented these fine hunting rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
Around here in CT it's not 'legal' to carry a center fire rifle most of the time. Thus a drilling might not be legal here.

An Ithaca Deerslayer would do it all with more flexibilty.

One barrel, one gauge, only place to differentiate loads is in the magazine....and that's more flexible than a drilling or combination gun? Maybe in a parallel universe.

I love my Simson 16-gauge over 7x65R. These pictures are from a walk in the Colorado high country with a bear tag in my pocket, and grouse and ptarmigan season open. I have owned a couple of drillings with Greener safeties, a couple of hammer drillings, a Merkel with the blitz safety, and two of these Simsons with the selector and the safety on the top tang. Calibers for rifles have ranged from 5.6x50R (essentially a rimmed .223) to 9.3x74R, in 16 and 20 gauge. For what I do, this Simson is as good as it gets.