Hello all.

Oh, I am looking at two very nice guns, with hammers.
They are a drilling in 16/16 65mm and 9.3*72R, German made, 1910-1920`s and a S/S 16 gauge shotgun, German to, around 1905.10.
Great looking guns, with lot of hunting charm.
But, how is a hammer gun, to live with?
Madness, better to find a good hammerless one?

Yes, I will be slower on the second shotgun shot to, but just the look and feel on the gun. Great.
Are there some here who have and use a hammer drilling, gun?

I love the hammer guns Vegard. Of all my drillings, I think I shoot my old (guild) hammer gun the most.

Madness? Hardly.

You're on the righteous path to hunting awesomeness.

There is nothing in the history of gun making more elegant than the back action hammer gun.

I hunted with two back action hammer drillings over the course of 7 - 8 years. The only problem I had was lack of ability to humanely shoot big game at long ranges. They were fun, effective and safe (!) in all other situations.

Do it!

Hello and thanks for the reply`s.

Oh, I understand brayhaven. What hammer drilling you have/use? Not feeling the hammers make you "slow" in any way?

Mt Al, what drilling you used? Calibers? Did you feel it was the hammer that made the rifle less accurate for the longer shots?

Never owned one because I use my drillings for small game hunting and the follow up shot on a surprise flush is very slow with a hammer gun.

I'm not a big fan of the 9.3 x 72R...its a 150 yd cartridge which would be fine for deer sized game. It loses velocity and energy pretty quickly. It was always referred as the 'Forstpatrone" (roughly, the forest caliber) where 50-75 yd shots would be more the norm. I think standard loading is for 193 grain. I think the 9.3 x 74R put it out of business. A lot of guns of this caliber were exported to the US and sold to unsuspecting hunters...to my mind a limited caliber.

I'm with Brayhaven. I'm enamored with my old hammer gun. I also have an O/U that has internal hammers. I hunt with both of them. But enjoy the balance and feel of the hammer gun more. Some of it is akin to shooting a nicely tuned revolver, or carrying an old mechanical watch. But some of it is the mechanics, external hammers are less complex than say an Anson Deeley lock. It also handles like a perfectly balanced light shotgun. It's easy to see if the gun is cocked or not. I don't find the first shot slower than a safety. I have two reasons for that. Most of the drillings with internal hammers that I have used have had the side safety, which I just am too stupid to find quickly. I grew up shooting an old hammer single barrel H&R shotgun and later a 94 Winchester. My thumb goes automatically for a hammer. I have a 22 mag insert in the other shotgun barrel. I seldom take that out of the gun. So I'm usually hunting with three different rounds in the gun, only one being a shotgun barrel. Most of my hunting is in the woods for woods game, so that works for me.
Mine has a 9.3X74 barrel. but I mostly shoot lower velocity loads for deer hunting, since I seldom shoot over 100 yards where I hunt. Besides she's nearly a 100 year old old lady and I tend to treat her like one, by using lower pressure loads.
Whatever you choose has to meet your needs. Pick what makes your own socks go up and down.
Just my thoughts.
Bfly

Hi

Yes, the 9.3*72R was and is a short range caliber, for use here in Europe in thick forest for deer, wild boar, red deer, moose and so. For me, it is just great. Yes, a *74R will give more power and so, but I do not need it, also the *72R makes the gun a bit lighter.

Black Fly, sounds like you have a great time, what drilling is it?
I like the idea of the insert barrel, makes it a real all rounder. Can I ask what bullets you use in the *74R

Mine is an old Sauer. There are no model numbers that I have been able to find. It is a fairly light gun, another reason I tend not to shoot full power loads. The recoil from a full power 9.3x74 from a 7 pound gun is a bit stiff.
I usually shoot 270 grain Speers and 260 grain cast bullets. I have also used factory Norma Oryx 286 and 286 Woodleigh bullets. This gun is not at all picky about bullets. It's more about what I bullets I can find. It is just a matter of getting the combination that shoots to the sights. The sights are not really adjustable. It has claw bases, I just haven't put the money together to get a set fitted.
Bfly

Well, it sounds like a nice gun.
Light and easy handling on these old Germans , but kicking hard with full load in the 9.3*74R I guess.

Thanks for the reply.

Given the choice, I will take the hammer guns every time. If you've ever had an internal hammer NOT cock you would too. The outside hammer guns tell you at a glance if they are ready to fire or not.

quote:

Originally posted by vegard_dino:
Hello and thanks for the reply`s.

Mt Al, what drilling you used? Calibers? Did you feel it was the hammer that made the rifle less accurate for the longer shots?

Vegard,

I had an Franz Kettner 16x16x 9x57R and an Ed Kettner 9x57 x 9x57 x 16 (double rifle drilling!!). Had kids, got short on money, sold. Sad but don't have many regrets.

No, I don't think the hammer made them less accurate. Just the nature of the action (vs. bolt or falling block), thin barrels, claw mount vs. hard mount scopes, age, etc. etc. The DR Drilling was very difficult to regulate. I didn't have the time or money to keep testing powders, bullets, etc.. I finally got it to where each barrel grouped OK, but one was 8" over the other at 100 yards. It worked on a few deer, an antelope and cow elk.

The regular drilling grouped OK with the rifle barrel, but nothing to brag about.

I'm in Montana and we often shoot well over 200 yards. I was tired of not shooting at medium range after driving all over the state! So I gladly went back to a bolt action.

With time and money I'd buy another back action hammer drilling in a second and use it as my bird gun and shoot the occasional coyote, white tail, etc.. They are beautiful works of art.

Mt Al

Oh, that was some nice drillings.
To bad zou was not getting them to shot as you wished.
Thanks for the information.

A nice wealthy guy with more time on his hands purchased the double rifle drilling. He loves it! He was able to either work up the loads or get the barrels regulated with the right load.

It's now a black bear killing machine in Canada.

Good luck with your hammer drilling.

Thanks Mt Al.
Nice to know the drilling is still serving the hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
I'm not a big fan of the 9.3 x 72R...its a 150 yd cartridge which would be fine for deer sized game. It loses velocity and energy pretty quickly. It was always referred as the 'Forstpatrone" (roughly, the forest caliber) where 50-75 yd shots would be more the norm. I think standard loading is for 193 grain.

A lot of guns of this caliber were exported to the US and sold to unsuspecting hunters...to my mind a limited caliber.

"Dieser Patrone ist einer unserer ältesten Jagdpatronen und war über lange Zeit auch eine der beliebtesten. Aufgrund ihrer starken Verbreitung, vor allem in Försterkreisen, wurde sie vielfach als 'Försterpatrone' bezeichnet"

(This cartridge is one of our oldest hunting cartridges and was for a long time also one of the most popular. Because of its popularity, especially within the ranks of the foresters (game wardens) it was often referred to as the "forester cartridge".)

Quote from "Wiederladen", the loading manual of the DEVA, the German research center for arms and ammunition.

As far as I know, most caliber 9.3X72R weapons were "imported" in the duffle bags of returning GI's, who "liberated" them during World War II. The ballistics are virtually the same as that of the .38-55, one of the most popular short range deer cartridges of the pre-World War II era.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
I'm not a big fan of the 9.3 x 72R...its a 150 yd cartridge which would be fine for deer sized game. It loses velocity and energy pretty quickly. It was always referred as the 'Forstpatrone" (roughly, the forest caliber) where 50-75 yd shots would be more the norm. I think standard loading is for 193 grain.

A lot of guns of this caliber were exported to the US and sold to unsuspecting hunters...to my mind a limited caliber.

"Dieser Patrone ist einer unserer ältesten Jagdpatronen und war über lange Zeit auch eine der beliebtesten. Aufgrund ihrer starken Verbreitung, vor allem in Försterkreisen, wurde sie vielfach als 'Försterpatrone' bezeichnet"

(This cartridge is one of our oldest hunting cartridges and was for a long time also one of the most popular. Because of its popularity, especially within the ranks of the foresters (game wardens) it was often referred to as the "forester cartridge".)

Quote from "Wiederladen", the loading manual of the DEVA, the German research center for arms and ammunition.

As far as I know, most caliber 9.3X72R weapons were "imported" in the duffle bags of returning GI's, who "liberated" them during World War II. The ballistics are virtually the same as that of the .38-55, one of the most popular short range deer cartridges of the pre-World War II era.

The 9.3X72 is one of my all time favorites. Even though I have drillings & combos in 6.5, 7 & 8mm. I don't really care too shoot deer at extreme ranges. Up close & personal is more exciting to me. (at my age, I need all the excitement I can get) Close old reliable calibers like this, put hunting back in hunting . My problem with them was finding good lighter bullets that expand well. I Wound up making a swaging die to bump 358, 180 gr 35 Rem bullets (Speer) up to .366 and changing the front a little. Works great, very accurate & very effective on deer & hogs.
I guess, the older I get, the more I like old stuff... old guns, old dogs, old cars, old boats, old calibers... Hell, I even like old women .
Greg

well i have a jp sauer sxs hammer gun double rifle. a few years ago i started using it deer hunting now it is the only gun i take with me. i am now restoring a fine german 16 ga. sxs hammer gun that im sure will become my favorite quail and dove companion. they seem to be addictive.

As an update to this string. I now own Black Fly's 16X16-9.3X74R drilling. I had rings made for the claw mount and I took this classic lady to RSA and Mozambique last month. I took a Red Duiker using the rifle and a Suni using the 16 ga. It was fun and she is now a companion for life.

Pictures!! You must post pictures!!

Pics on African Hunting Forum.

I think hammer guns are one of the classiest made. I plan on getting a combo gun with hammers one day. Probably something with a 9.3 barrel and shot.

quote:

I guess, the older I get, the more I like old stuff... old guns, old dogs, old cars, old boats, old calibers... Hell, I even like old women Wink.
Greg

Greg, I was right with you until you got to the "women" part !!! :-)

quote:

I took a Red Duiker using the rifle and a Suni using the 16 ga. It was fun and she is now a companion for life. dancing

Old Hunter...what a great safari with a great rifle! Aren't those little Suni great to hunt? Their flickering white tails are a big help in spotting them in the understory.