Hi all

Yes, the cape gun is just as old as the double rifle, drilling and so.
But, not so much talked about..why?

Only got one rifle and one shotgun barrel?
The poor mans double?

Well, that is to bad.

When thinking about it. if one got a Cape gun, in a 8-9 mm rifle caliber and a 12-16 or even 20 ga shotgun, you really do have a gun, ready for all games in USA/Canada and Europe..and I am sure it will do a good jon in Africa, Asia and Australia to.


Just hoping to hear what you all say, feel about that.

A drilling is more money, but maybe a Cape gun will do, close to, just as good.....????

Well Vegard, I've already said it, but a single shot shotgun is not something I have any interest in. When you have an all around gun, it should be a rifle, which all single shots are, IMO. It should also be a bird/waterfowl gun which absolutely needs 2 barrels. That said, I made a "cape gun" a few years ago by lining the right barrel of an original 20 ga percussion shotgun. I then threaded the shot barrel for screw in chokes. I've hunted with this gun during ML season and harvested some game with it. However, I always find myself wanting another shot barrel when I use it on birds ).
BTW, where did the term "cape gun" come from..? Was it a term for combo SXS guns popular in S. Africa way back when?

Because I'm a world class shotgun shooter , I do just fine with a cape gun.

Kidding aside, I started hunting with a Savage 220 20gs single shot and did well as a kid. I don't mind having only one shotgun barrel, and I loved the two cape guns I owned. I had to sell a great little E. Kerner cape gun in 16/9,3X72R with a 4X Zeiss in claw mounts, but a good friend got it, and I paid medical bills.

I still have and will keep my favorite set, a better grade pre-war Sauer in 12/12 and 12/8X57JR with 3X in claws. I shoot the shotgun set like the gun was made for me and do well with the cape set, using the shotgun barrel. Iused this set in Africa for PG and francolin, guinea, and sand grouse.

Here is the gun with the 12/12 barrels...



This is the set...







I've taken a few good mule deer and a lot of blue grouse with the set here in Nevada.

Hi

That is a nice Cape gun

What bullet you use in the 8mm? How do it shoot?

You also use it with slug? Just thinking for deer or boar in America.

Thanks for sharing the photo´s

It does well with the factory Sellier & Bellot factory ammo with 196gr bullet. I have not tried a slug in the shot barrel yet. I can't get any original Brenneke slug ammo anymore and don't much like Foster slugs.

I don't get fantastic accuracy with the rifle...about 1 1/2" at 100 yards. Given the range limitations of the 8X57R, that's accurate enough for me.

Hi

To bad you can´t get the Brenneke slug...

But, that accuracy is not bad, thinking of the caliber as you say.

Guess you use it more on ranges around 0-70 yards.

A very nice cape gun it is

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Because I'm a world class shotgun shooter , I do just fine with a cape gun.

Kidding aside, I started hunting with a Savage 220 20gs single shot and did well as a kid. I don't mind having only one shotgun barrel, and I loved the two cape guns I owned. I had to sell a great little E. Kerner cape gun in 16/9,3X72R with a 4X Zeiss in claw mounts, but a good friend got it, and I paid medical bills.

I still have and will keep my favorite set, a better grade pre-war Sauer in 12/12 and 12/8X57JR with 3X in claws. I shoot the shotgun set like the gun was made for me and do well with the cape set, using the shotgun barrel. Iused this set in Africa for PG and francolin, guinea, and sand grouse.

Here is the gun with the 12/12 barrels...

Nice Cape gun "Luv". Too bad you had to part with the Emil Kerner. At least it didn't go to a stranger I have one of his drillings in 20 ga 6.5X58R that is one of the best made drillings I've ever seen. At least as good as the krieghoffs & maybe a little better.
I too used a single shot SG as a kid. That's what made me a less than enthusiastic fan of them. Too often I'd hit a duck or dove well, have it drop it's legs and feathers fly, and not have that other barrel to finish the job. It was always disheartening to know that bird would be dinner for coyotes rather than yours truly. You also get real busy when shooting doubles with a cape gun...
I was a clay bird shooter even then and still am. I'm not in your (world class) league, though I did make alternate on the US team in 72 & 76
I just hate to wound birds, and no matter how good you shoot, when you shoot a shotgun, you will do it. Having that 2nd barrel prevents lost game in many cases and doesn't really add much weight to the gun. In fact I swing a drilling better than most doubles. The added weight makes them swing better and that rifle barrel being below seems to keep you from canting the gun. All my competition guns are 30" barrels, just to have that added weight for better swing.
I think cape guns are fine, but mostly as SS rifles with a little something extra. Whereas a drilling is a serious bird or waterfowl gun as well as being a large game rifle. Add a rim fire "einstecklauf" and you are as close to the mythical all purpose gun as you can get.
For some reason, in Europe the cape guns bring as much or more than a drilling of equal quality. I'm told by my German friends it's because people like to put a center fire einstecklauf, (of the same caliber as the rifle) in them and make a poor man's double rifle.

Hi Greg

Yes, that´s right. One shotgun barrel can be a bit on the low side, when bird hunting

Well, I am far far away from your level of clay bird shooting, you are a good shooter
But, the 2nd barrel prevents lost game, and give a good meal....

I feel the same when shooting witha drilling to, the old drillings was well made, great balance to them. Not so with the new drillings...To bad really.

The drilling are, maybe, the best all purpose gun one can find. Good balance for bird shooting, have a large caliber rifle and your ready to go moose, deer, bear and elk hunting. Not to forget the turkey

Just add a "einstecklauf" and your ready for that turkey hunt!
The drilling is better gun than the cape gun, but the cape gun is also good, just missing a barrel.....

I have heard the same to, regarding the poor man´s double. I did se one hunter who had done just that, two barrels of some 8 mm, but thats not a cape gun. In my mind.

Have a good day all

quote:

Originally posted by vegard_dino:
Hi Greg

Yes, that´s right. One shotgun barrel can be a bit on the low side, when bird hunting

Well, I am far far away from your level of clay bird shooting, you are a good shooter
But, the 2nd barrel prevents lost game, and give a good meal....

I feel the same when shooting witha drilling to, the old drillings was well made, great balance to them. Not so with the new drillings...To bad really.

The drilling are, maybe, the best all purpose gun one can find. Good balance for bird shooting, have a large caliber rifle and your ready to go moose, deer, bear and elk hunting. Not to forget the turkey

Just add a "einstecklauf" and your ready for that turkey hunt!
The drilling is better gun than the cape gun, but the cape gun is also good, just missing a barrel.....

I have heard the same to, regarding the poor man´s double. I did se one hunter who had done just that, two barrels of some 8 mm, but thats not a cape gun. In my mind.

Have a good day all

I completely agree on the new drillings. They are bulky and just don't have the lines, feel or workmanship of the old guns. At least not the ones that are anywhere near reasonable. The (better) old ones were put together piece by piece, the barrels were skived & fitted. Then they were soldered and shot, then taken apart & regulated, soldered and shot again. The shot barrels were reamed & shot & honed & shot until they patterned well. All that hand work would cost a fortune today.
The new ones are made from a mono-block that is turned out on a CNC machine and the barrels are inserted & soldered in. Stocks are carved out on a duplicating machine a dozen or more at a time. They just don't have the "soul" the old guns have.
But then, I'm a fan of old stuff: Old guns, old boats, old dogs, old cars, old mules... Hell, I even like old women

quote:

Originally posted by vegard_dino:
Hi

To bad you can´t get the Brenneke slug...

But, that accuracy is not bad, thinking of the caliber as you say.

Guess you use it more on ranges around 0-70 yards.

A very nice cape gun it is

Most shots are 100-200 yards, and it does fine. The one standing/one folding are 80 meters and 180 meters, and both are real close with the Sellier & Bellot ammo.

Greg,

I FULLY agree with you regarding wounded birds flying off to die slowly. I hate it when that happens. That is the big limitation I feel with a cape gun, for sure. I most often won't use the second barrel on a double if I knock a bird down the first shot. After the first shot, you now have a single shot with the same limitations.

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Greg,

I FULLY agree with you regarding wounded birds flying off to die slowly. I hate it when that happens. That is the big limitation I feel with a cape gun, for sure. I most often won't use the second barrel on a double if I knock a bird down the first shot. After the first shot, you now have a single shot with the same limitations.

er...uh.. I reckon that works too
"A man's got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

Greg

Well that is so right

The drillings back in those day´s was made with love and care. They was made to be good working guns, and so they are.
I do not think they was cheap back then, but then people did pay more for quality than one do today.

To day every one is asking for a low price tag, well not every one, and when you do get that, you just can´t get the good old quality.

The drillings made today are to short, to heavy and made with no love or care from the gunsmith. As you say, they do not have the "soul" of that good old drilling/cape gun.

So, today´s price tag on a drilling, well yes it is not a low price gun, but thinking of what you are buying, I think today´s drillings are more expensive than the one made in the good old day´s.


Just as you, I am a fan of old guns, old watches, cars and so..oh yes, women to


Have a good day all

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Greg,

I FULLY agree with you regarding wounded birds flying off to die slowly. I hate it when that happens. That is the big limitation I feel with a cape gun, for sure. I most often won't use the second barrel on a double if I knock a bird down the first shot. After the first shot, you now have a single shot with the same limitations.

er...uh.. I reckon that works too
"A man's got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

I have to remember so MANY!

quote:

Originally posted by vegard_dino:
Greg

Well that is so right

The drillings back in those day´s was made with love and care. They was made to be good working guns, and so they are.
I do not think they was cheap back then, but then people did pay more for quality than one do today.

To day every one is asking for a low price tag, well not every one, and when you do get that, you just can´t get the good old quality.

The drillings made today are to short, to heavy and made with no love or care from the gunsmith. As you say, they do not have the "soul" of that good old drilling/cape gun.

So, today´s price tag on a drilling, well yes it is not a low price gun, but thinking of what you are buying, I think today´s drillings are more expensive than the one made in the good old day´s.


Just as you, I am a fan of old guns, old watches, cars and so..oh yes, women to


Have a good day all

They apparently made some cheap(er) drillings back then, but it was mostly less adornment, plain wood, and few features less interior parts finish etc. I think they were still pretty well made (by today's standards ) from the basic ones I've examined. A fun book to browse through is "Arms Of The World-1911" It's a copy of the Alfa arms catalog from that period. There was an amazing array of neat old guns in every imaginable combination and configuration. If you can find a copy, buy it. they come up on used book lists sometimes pretty cheap. Like these: http://product.half.ebay.com/A...QprZ2834145QQtgZinfo