Please tell me what we have. A friend took a drilling for legal fees in a divorce case. It was that or nothing. The ex-wife had taken just about everything else. We know little about them, but want to know more.

It is: 16x16 over 7x57R
Barrel stamped: W. Voss
Kreiensen
Receiver engraved: Right side-Red Stag
Left Side-European Deer
It has a quick detach scope mount and Voigtlander scope mounted on the right side of the rib. One could shoot it with the scope mounted and also look right down the rib to shoot the shotgun. It is in good shape, no rust, stock not dinged, etc.

I haven't learned to post photos yet, but could if needed.

Oh, yes, there is a leather scope case in a tubular shape.

We'd like to have an idea what we have? Etc. Would appreciate any help you might give us.

It shoots wonderfully and I plan to reload using the load information from Gerry and Mike that they graciously shared a couple weeks ago.

Thanks in advance!
Jerry

A pictures worth a thousand words. Particularly those of the barrel markings and the proof marks on the flats and action. Besides, I'd like to see a photo of that baby! Sounds like a nice gun.

Jeff

Where is W. Voss on the gun? Werner Voss was a great WWI Greman flying ace, and if this was one of his guns, it may be worth quite a lot.

In any case, you have a wonderful drilling. I'll PM you with my email addy, and you can send me a couple of pics; I'll post them here, Jerry.

How are the 9,3 barrels for your Valmet working out? Any leopard kills??

L2S

I forgot to mention. The trigger guard assembly and pistol grip cap look like they are some horn--it is dark like buffalo??

Bill, we will take photos this afternoon and email them to you for posting. We appreciate the offer.


Jerry

Is there a stamp "bkp" on the rifle?

This is the stamp of the former (before WWII)
gun factory

Gewehrfabrik Burgsmüller & Söhne, Kreiensen

W. Voss could be the master gunsmith of the company.

Burkhard,

Here are the markings:

Rifle Barrel: KRUPP LAUFS?AHLD
844
N 11 gr
St.M.G
SUHL
U
7mm
57
1032

Shotgun Barrels: KRUPP LAUFS?AHLD
W
SUHL
U
16
NITRO

The Krupp Laufs.....lettering is hard to read and I may be off somewhat in decifering the actual letters.

We took photos yesterday and should be able to post them shortly.

Thanks to everyone for their help, it is appreciated.

Jerry

Proofed October, 1932 will make it a coveted period pre-WWII gun.

Bill,

What did you think of the photos--especially the second set?

Thanks,
Jerry

Jerry,

I sent you a PM and would be happy to post some photos here.

Bruce
L2S

L2S

Thanks, the photos are on their way again. I used an incorrect address yesterday when I sent them.

Jerry

Jerry,

Looks like it was regulated with an 11 gram jacketed bullet. Also, if there is not a 70 with a circle around it, it most likely has 65mm chambers in the shot barrels.

Jeff

akjeff,

Thanks for the input. I couldn't find either a 70 or 65 circled on the shotgun barrels. However, there is 16 circled. What would that mean?

Jerry

So, is this a hammer drilling or a hammerless?

The 16 with the circle is the shotgun gauge, and since it was built before WWII it was almost certainly built with 65mm (2-5/8 inch) shotgun chambers.

loud-n-boomer

Thanks, for that information. I shot 4 regular lead 2 3/4' shotgun shells in it. I knew it shouldn't have steel shot. Didn't seem to be a problem, should I discontinue shooting them?

It is hammerless. I am working now with Luv2Safari to get photos posted. Will be eager for you all to see them.

Best wishes,
Jerry

While the 2-3/4 inch shells will chamber, I have always been told that they generate higher pressures than normal when shot in a short chamber, because the crimp cannot open all the way. 2-1/2 inch shells suitable for use in older short chambered guns are available from Gamebore, Kent Cartridge, RST, and Westley Richards. The shells run about $10.00 to $13.00 per box of 25 and I have seen them in #5, #6, #7, #7-1/2, #8, and #9 shot sizes. The Westley Richards ammo is what I use and is about as inexpensive as any I've seen.

PHOTOS !!!

Looks like a beater to me... Probably DANGEROUS...!!

I would be glad to take it off your hands...as a favor...

DAMNED NICE DRILLING, JUDGE J!

Bruce,

You said it....DAMNED NICE!

Jerry,

If there is no "circled 70", then it should be understood to have 65mm chambers. Generally speaking, the 65mm chambered guns were not marked with a "circled 65".

As for firing 2-3/4" ammo, in a 2-1/2" gun, it's a subject that's been beat to death, and a choice you'll have to make. Personally, I think it's OK, as long as you use LOW PRESSURE 2-3/4" shells! The problem isn't so much the crimp causing an "obstruction". It's that much of today's ammo, borders on what would have been proof loads, back in the day. Even if a gun of this vintage had 2-3/4" chambers, it wouldn't be prudent to stuff just any old 2-3/4" ammo into it.

Again, very nice gun!

Jeff

Guys,

Thank you all so much for your help. We had no clue what we had. This is exciting, we knew the drilling had potential to be something, but no clue what or from where. It was just one of those situations in life when your gut feeling says to proceed with the trade (legal fees v. nothing). Your input has been very much appreciated. Anything else you wished to proffer would be welcome.

Thank you all so much for your time and input!

Sincerely,
Jerry

Nice gun!

While getting paid may have been nicer, look at it this way. They print new money all the time. They don't make guns like that anymore.

I hope your friend has many fine days hunting with it.

That is just pretty as can be,

the one thing that would dress her, all drilling are of female gender is a better pad, a leather cowered pad would make here look a lot more like the classy lady she is..

Ohh well perhaps I should be quiet now, good trade, now go shot something with it.

Best regards Chris

Sambar 9.3

Making this discovery with the help of all of you has been fun! Scott, the owner, is not a hunter. This drilling actually sat under his desk in the case for 5-8 years just collecting dust. He had taken it just because that's all there was left for any legal fees. One day he showed it to me and I sensed it could be a "discovery". Thanks to all the input--literally worldwide--we have an idea what it is and how to care for it.

The beauty of the situation is that Scott & I both benefit. He will let me keep & play with it, and he will ultimately be able to recover some of his time.

I also placed a post in the Reloading thread seeking advice for reloading. MHO from Switzerland and GERRY from Germany both gave very beneficial advice. Based on their suggestins I will be able to reload safely for the 7x57R.

Sure do appreciate all of your help!!!

Sincerely,
Jerry

Chris,

I like the suggestion of the leather covered pad. Where do I find one? I had even wondered about a LimbSaver Pad. The pad presently on it obviously has been added somewhere down through the years and doesn't add to the aesthetic value. I think your leather covered pad would add to the mistique.

Thanks!
Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Judge Jerry:
Sambar 9.3

I also placed a post in the Reloading thread seeking advice for reloading. MHO from Switzerland and GERRY from Germany both gave very beneficial advice. Based on their suggestins I will be able to reload safely for the 7x57R.

Sure do appreciate all of your help!!!

Sincerely,
Jerry

G'day Jerry. I also use a 7x57R in my BBF. I have found that by taking the factory recommendations and backing off 10%, I have had good luck. It is sometimes necessary to play around a bit with the load to get the best accuracy, but usually it works well.
The Blaser is a simple chopper lump, similar to a Browning or Miroku, with no top crossbolt, as your friends gun has.
In theory, you should be OK using the same formula, just be sure to size your cases to headspace off the rim, not the shoulder. Cases will not last as long that way, but you will not have any chambering or extraction problems.

Best of luck.

Sambar 9.3 has it dialed in just right, IMO. I think if you find some old DWM ballistics, you should try to duplicate them with a bullet about 160-170grains.

Judge, I am glad that you took advice/thinking out loud in a good way, my usual Swedish, blunt straight forwardness has some downsides,

a leather covered pad is a smith thing, at least in my mind/level of skill and so on.

Here is a link to a place that do them,

http://www.woodcockhill.com/work.htm

As a second solution, and one that better fits my level I asked for the thinnest packmayer pad they had in the shot and a pice of black wood behind that to make lenght.

Shooting with mine I find recoil to be a non issue.

Best regards Chris

Chris,

I think that drilling deserves a leather pad...good call.

quote:

Rifle Barrel: KRUPP LAUFS?AHLD
844
N 11 gr
St.M.G
SUHL
U
7mm
57
1032

Shotgun Barrels: KRUPP LAUFS?AHLD
W
SUHL
U
16
NITRO

Jerry,

The Drilling appears to be in very good condition from the photos - at least on the outside but if that's any indication of what's inside as well; a sound piece.

Just a coupla take-aways from across the Atlantic via the Photos.

1. From the condition and appearance of the Forearm & Buttstock, I'd have to suggest it's been re-stocked. The reasons are:

a. Checkering appears "run-over" on the forearm, the edges (point) of the pattern boarders not exactly matching the end of the forearm, couldn't say why, just my opinion. I can't really dertermine the shape of the forearm "Schnabel" from the view it's been photographed.

b. For the period the stock appears unusually very high and straight to accommodate scope use. Appears the original Horn Triggeguard has been used & incorporated well into the grip.

c. I've never seen a Greener Safety thusly positioned on the "side panels" (for a lack of the appropriate technical term) of the grip area of the Buttstock.

d. The White Line Spacer & Ventilated Recoil Pad are not period authentic IMO.

e. The Stock accesories appear to be taken from an original Stock though, the Cartridge Trap with Sling Swivels & Grip Cap (Horn?) and the Cheekpiece appears 100% Teutonic.

Don't misinterpet this as any dispariging remarks concerning the Drilling, just my observations regarding the Stock and to me appear to be reasons to indiacte it has received new wood, nothing more, nothing less.

Burkhard, ak's & Dave's hacve already summed up the proofmarks.

KRUPP LAUF?AHLD should read KRUPP LAUFSTAHL (= Krupp's Steel Barrel).

Does the 844 match any portion of the serial number on the action (if there is one?)?

N 11 gr St. M. G. = Nitro-Proofed (Smokeless Powder) w/11 gramm (169.4 grain) or a 170 grain Steel Jacketed Bullet.

1032 = October 1932.

16 Gauge were during this time period usually 16/65mm or 16 Gauge 2 5/8" shotgun shells also w/Smokeless Powder.

I have a 1917 16/65mm Hammer SxS that has digested 2 3/4" shells with no apparent discomfort and have shot it with current RWS Tiger 16/65mm shells also. Now I use a set of Shotshell reducers "Little Skeeters" (from 16 Gauge to 20 Gauge) in it now just to add another ring of aluminium security to an otherwise older but good, fun shooter.

Have Fun with your Buddy's Drilling!

Thank you, Gerry, I truly appreciate the insight. We have no idea what it is and are welcoming the input. It is what it is--the comments are welcomed and certainly not considered disparaging.

I am on the circuit traveling this week and will look more at the markings when I return home. I do not recall a serial number on the drilling, in fact, I was somewhat surprised that I couldn't find one before. Is this common?

Also eager to look at the checkering to see if it as you think.

I had wondered about adding the tubes to reduce it from 16 to 20 gauge. Our 20 gauge shells are about 1/2 price of 16 and we have much more variety.

Thanks again.

Sincerely,
Jerry

Judge,

I think Gerry may be correct regarding the re-stock. The Germans didn't use a lot of heavily figured wood; they went for dense straight grain. I do like the lines of the stock, and you sure can't fault that nice wood.

Also, just stick with the 16 gauge ammo. It isn't a duck gun, and most anything else you'll use it for will go down with 6 and 7 1/2' shot. I use 2 3/4" 1oz field loads in 65mm chambers and have had no problems in 48 years of shooting these. Wally-World sells 16ga 1 oz Federals for decent prices. And, I have a 16ga long forcing cone reamer that doesn't take as much out as a 2 3/4" reamer, but it does make the 65mm chambers more 70mm friendly.