I"ve been thinking about buying a combi(my first) for small game, probably .410 or 28 and .22lr.
The only combi"s I"ve seen advertised here in the UK are Baikals. I"ve had a few Baikal shotguns and found them to be OK, if not very fancy. I see a post on this section by someone running down Baikal combi"s. Anybody got one? What do you think of it? I"m not expecting top grade performance from what is really a budget gun, but how bad could they be? any comments?
good shooting

Never ask how bad something could be, or what could go wrong now. You may not like the answers!

The only Baikals I have seen were the CF versions, hopefully your RF one will be better.
The only problems I have seen first hand have all been extraction related (problems with the rimless extractor). The only rimmed one I have seen (for the rimmed Russian service round) has worked just fine.
Perhaps it is just the rimmless extractor?
Hope yours works out OK.

OK, I can imagine what you mean with "rimless" brass. I"m still just thinking about it, I never buy a gun on a whim, without thinking about it for a week or two(not any more, I mean!) I"ve got all my bases covered with the guns I"ve got, it"s just that I don"t always have the right one with me at any given time!
good shooting.

I've handled several examples of the Baikal 22 rimfire / 410 combinations guns. While I have not spent any time at the range with one they leave me cold. They may be "strong like tractor" but they are coarsely finished and stiff to operate. Were I looking for a small game gun I shop for a clean used Savage M24 in 22/410 or 22/20 ga (if that is an option in your neck of the woods).

I had a Baikal combo in 12/76 and 7x57R for a couple of years. It worked quite OK, I only sold it to finance my new Ferlacher combo in 12/70 and 7x65R. My Baikal had no problems with extraction or anything else and it had one thing better than my new state-of-the-art Ferlach gun: it could shoot five bullets to the same spot without needing to cool between shots. My Ferlach gun shoots the first shot right on spot, but already the second will go about 6" high, if I don't wait for at least a minute between the shots.

If you like the way Baikal handles, I would say go for it. For the money it is a practical working gun.

I have two of these IZH-94 rifles. The 7x57 by 12 gauge has worked well. I have shot 1.5" by 5 shot groups at 200 yards.CDNN in Abiliene, Tx the 223 and the 30-06 on sale for $299.00.

Brass Thief, yes, that why I got my BBF. It neatly gets around the problem of having the wrong gun at moment.
The drawback is you only get the one shot. For me, that means passing up the odd shot at critters, but the freezer seems to stay full.

I have a Stevens SxS 12 gauge made by Baikal. It's not a luxury gun by any means. I paid $275 new for it. But it has nice features, Walnut furniture, nice fit/finish, good design. Screw in chokes. Long radius style pistol grip.

It points well, shoots where you point it. I also have a Baikal Makarov -- the "commerical/civialian" model, double stack, high capacity magazine.

I've had the Makarov apart, honed the trigger. It's not a "jewel" but it's well designed, well made.

Baikal seems to be manufacturing a lot of guns for American brand names. I like the Baikals I have!

The Baikal 94s are just fine in rimmed chamberings like my 12ga/7X57R. It is a tack driver...far more accurate than many of my drillings and cape gun. Just don't let your eyes linger on the wood for too long.

I had a Baikal IZH-94 imported by EAA in 12 over 6.5x55 and thought that it was miserable piece of $hit. It certainly ranked in the bottom 10 of all the firearms that I've ever owned and would never suggest that anyone buy 1.

Jeff

I just saw a 22/410 in a gunshop, that was a Rem, but I think made by Baikal, that was pretty decent for $360. Real walnut stock, that was kinda oil finished, but not very well shaped. I was tempted, because it was lighter than the Savage, and I could see that some fine touches on the stock pistol grip shaping, and maybe even some checkering would make it into a sharp looking gun.

One of the guys I occasionally hunt with has one in 12g / 308. The gun is accurate enough (1.5 MOA with the factory Sako 180gr ammo), for the puropse (deer and pigs), but extraction remains an occasional problem.
He solved it by having the local 'smith re-cut the chamber and modify the extractor to 307 Win specs. As you all know the 307 is just a rimmed 308.
Seems to work just fine, still as accurate as ever, and no more extraction problems.

I'd say, if you can live with the looks of the thing, and the possibility that you may have fiddle around with it to get a reliable gun, go for it.

I seem to remember that Gunmart magazine in the UK did a review on a baikal combination gun not too long ago - perhaps this might be of help. The general consensus seems to be that Baikal make reliable strongly made weapons, but nothing too fancy or refined. If you are prepared to spend a bit more cash, why not consider a CZ? A friend of mine bought one recently i 12 gauge/243. It's an excellant gun, really well finished and shoots extremely well.

I considered a Baikal IZH94 too, but wanted a deer-legal chambering in the rifle barrel so ended up going for a Brno 502.6 (12g/.243).

It's solidly made, albeit a bit rough in places - for example, the bore of the shotgun barrel needs a seriously good polishing-, but it handles very well indeed. It's true that you don't get a regulator device as you do on the Baikal, but on the other hand you do get a set trigger on the rifle barrel and better wood.

Mine shoots very well as a shotgun - maybe having just one shot concentrates the mind, but I certainly hit more with it than I do with my regular O/U (!). I wish it had ejectors rather than extractors though, as this would allow faster reloads. However, I've never had a failure to extract with either the 12g or the (rimless) .243.

As a rifle, it's currently a 100m proposition, even with a scope fitted (1.5-5x20). Maybe a bit of load development will improve things, but I'll need to be patient because, as is often the case with combis, after the second shot from cold the POI rises dramatically if the barrel isn't allowed to cool in between shots.

Overall, though, I like the Brno a lot. I treat it as essentially a very compact and shootable single-barrel shotgun that also has the capability to take on woodland deer when required, not to mention foxes that won't come in range of the shotgun... and crows that think it's safe to sit and watch me from a distance.

As it happens, this afternoon/evening I had an almost perfect "combi" outing, as I shot 3 crows - 2 flying (12g, #5 shot, iron sights) and one off a fencepost at 90m (.243 55grn Nosler BT, scope) -, 3 squirrels (12g #6 shot, Docter sight), and finally a couple of foxes, one called in to 20m (12g BB shot, Docter + NV goggles) and one that stopped short at 60m (.243, Docter + NV goggles)

Swapping from irons to optics may sound like a bit of a faff, but with QD mounts it only takes seconds, and it's that or teach myself to wing shoot with the Docter on.

Getting back to the original question, I'd say if the calibres suit you, do take a look at a Baikal, and try it out too if you can. If it suits your style and the trigger action feels OK then it's probably worth giving it a go. As for the Brno, they're not that easy to find new any more as the 502 is now out of production and its successor, the 802, has yet to reach the UK owing to delays caused by Brno's restructuring. There is currently a S/H one on Guntrader, though (G.Bate, Staffs.) and they appear quite frequently on Egun.de too. Alternatively, as Nordrseta says, you might look for a S/H Savage 24 (S/H because the new ones are overpriced and over-heavy) but old or new, most have seriously rough triggers.

That heavy part is what turned me off on the Savage 24. Even the old ones are way too heavy for the calibers. And the cool idea of the 20 ga campers special, with short barrel is NG because the shotgun barrel has no choke-cylinder bore. Got a bid in for a Baikal 20/22, planning on a stock reshaping/slimming, with new checkering. I do checkering about once every 2 years, when I forget how miserable a job it is!

That's odd. My savage 24C shot BBL checks out at Mod choke. At least according to the gunsmith. But it is an old one, maybe some got out of the factory with unusual specs?

Got my 22/20 ga baikal. Checkering guy at Baikal needs to lay off the Stoly at lunchtime. 22 barrel was right at point of aim at 25 yds, with factory sights. Plan on a rechambering to 22 mag. 20 ga barrel was 5" high and to the left with one slug load and the mod tube at 25 yds. More testing coming up! The action was stiff, until I did some polishing of pivots, and the extractor with some 800 grit paper. Trigger pulls need work, too-about 6 lbs!

My coyote gun is a IZH-94 Baikal combo 12ga over 7x57. The trigger is improving with age and the pivoting of the action as I open it is improving. I shoot 120gr V-Max bullets at 2600fps and 100 % kill record. No wounded. 12 ga at 20 yards did the job. I would reccomend the gun but you will want to massage it. The accuracy at 200 meters off a shooting stick was 1.5" for 3 shots with 120 gr Amaxes and 140 nosler BTs. For the price it is a good gun.

I have one in 12 over 7x57R seems to work well. for the frist 2 shots they go into 1.5 at 100.

The biggest trouble I have is remembering to pull the proper trigger at the proper time.

I did head shot a turkey with the rifle barrel one time when I ment to use the 12 ga barrel. One might say no beg deal. Oh yea the turkey was flying at the time. I thought it was a hell of a shot.

Rechambered the 22 lr barrel to 22 mag--the thing shoots a 1/2" group at 25 yds with open sights off a bag. But the 20 ga slugs are still 6" high at 25, even after trying to bend the 20 ga barrel slightly. No adjustments on the barrel seperations to play with on my Baikal. Any bright ideas??? Can't figure out how the muzzle end is attached-could cut and shim that out to regulate the 2 bbrls.

xs - do you only plan to shoot at 25 yards??

why not see what the slugs do at 50. 75, and 100 yards.

same for your 22 mag bbl.

i don't know about russian guns but the german and austrian ones are normally shot in with brenneke. maybe try those and see what you get.

quote:

Originally posted by xs headspace:
even after trying to bend the 20 ga barrel slightly. .

remind me never to buy a used gun from you.

The standard factory procedure for installing Poly Chokes 50 years ago was to bend the barrel slightly, to compensate for the higher front sight on the Poly Choke. These smoothbores ain't built in no watch factory, boy.

Oh, yeah, Jack O'Connor in his "The Shotgun Book" tells of a variable choke mfg'r that said that the barrel would be bent to center the pattern after installation, but his customers went nuts about this, so the wording was changed to straightened, or regulated. Regulating wedges in double rifles spread the barrels apart, or closer in the middle---guess what? This bends the barrel, because the ends are still in the same place, right?

I remember one year at the gun club sight in an asian recent arrival smacked his gun against the 6x6 post to try to move POI over a few inches.

Cut the existing bushing off that held the 20 ga bbrl, turned an eccentric new bushing on the lathe, so that it can be rotated to move the 20 ga barrel muzzle slightly. Slugs are now 3" high at 25 yds. Need a thicker bushing, back to the lathe!

Turned a thicker eccentric bushing, got the 22 mag and 20 ga slugs dead nutz at 30 yds. Bad news: The damn piece of scap tubing I grabbed was Stainless! Hi temp BBQ black paint, and it looks fine! Tired of messing with it-now where did all those coyotes go?? #3 buck for movers, 22 mag for sitters, now they dissapeared from the woods in back of me.Damn!