I have read here some reports of people shooting slugs in their drillings. Is there any danger of slugs ruining the regulation between the rifle and shotgun barrels?

How open of a choke would be needed to use slugs without problems?

Would a tight choke result in bulging out of the shotgun barrels at the constriction or a couple inches from the muzzle?

you pose some excellent questions about slugs in drillings. some drillings have the shotgun bbls regulated to shoot slugs to the sights.

i do not think a lead slug, esp of the brenneke style with the ribs would cause any damage. there is a limited contact area due to the ribs.
you could contact Brenneke usa to find out

Ithaca found when doing their early development for the deerslayer shotgun that the best acccuracy was obtained with a highly polished bbl of cylinder bore.

Many drillings were regulated for 60 meters to shoot original Brenneke slugs out the right barrel. They have a provision to keep the pop up sight up for shooting the right shotgun barrel and can be quite accurate.

Years ago I had a Gbr. Merkel sidelock, side cock in 12ga and 8X57JR that would drop an original Brenneke slug on top of the where the rifle shot to at 80 meters. It had the folding rear sight, not a pop up type. A lot of the pre war drillings out there are so regulated and are real "sleepers", waiting to be found out.

Palmer - I use a 16ga Brenneke slug in the right barrel of my Krieghoff 16X16X8x57JR. Matter-of-fact, I used one successfully a couple of weeks ago in Montana on a running deer in a river bottom ("bang, flop"). The deer wasn't big and the range wasn't long, but the action was fast and slug was effective. The slug hits POA at 50 yards. On the advice of a German gunsmith, I purchased 20ga "Conversion tubes" and have tried various brands of slugs to match the full choke of the left barrel. The best to date has been Winchester brand that shoots pretty close to POA. (Also on my hunt, I bagged a couple of pheasant.) I've heard stories of soldering coming loose on combination guns from shooting slugs, but I do not believe it is a problem if you're careful about the amount of choke you're shooting through; it sure adds to the versatility of the gun. My right barrel is IC. Mags

I sent an E-mail to Brenneke asking this specific question. I told them when the rifle sights are up on my drilling the left barrel of the shotgun can also be fired. It has a full choke. Can I shoot slugs and which slugs can I use through a smooth bore full choke.
Here is their response.
"You can shoot all Brenneke slugs except the Super Sabot and the Gold Magnum out of any kind of choke. Full choke is not a problem for our slugs. The before mentioned slugs Super Sabot and Gold Magnum are for rifled barrels only and must not be shot from any kind of choked barrel."

I have tested several different slugs in my wifes and my Sauer 12x12x30-06 drilling.

My wife has killed a pig with a slug from her gun.

I plan to shoot some game with Brenneke slugs out of my drilling this deer season.

Want to try some buckshot too.

Here are my Simson 12x12x8x57JRS barrels. What I am curious about is whether the bulges or rings that you can see about an inch from the end of each shotgun barrel were caused by a previous owner shooting slugs thru them - maybe not Brennekes.





Since I plan to take this drilling to Tanzania next summer, I am also curious whether continuing to shoot slugs would somehow deregulate the rifle barrel. I appreciate foxfires passing along the comments from Brenneke and that gives me a little more confidence.

At this time rifle shoots very accurately and the shotgun barrels both pattern just right so the rings suprisingly do not seem to harm anything - I am just concerned that it doesn't get worse by shooting more slugs thru it.

By the way, When I bought it I knew they were there and the price was adjusted accordingly. I am currently using it to hunt deer and quail this season and can see why so many of you are confirmed drilling fans. Mine has a German Nickle scope and points like a fine shotgun.



I am also looking for dies if anyone has a source to recommend.

What your showing in the picture I believe is what I read somewhere was referred to from shooting steel shot through a drilling. They described the discoloration in detail.
I can't remember exactly where I read it, but I will hunt down the quote and post it latter this week. They also said there was probably no long term effect from it on the gun. It just looks bad.

Allen

Nice looking Drilling.

Foxfire might be right. I never shoot steel shot in my drilling. We use Bismuth for waterfowl.

Try this. Cut open a Brenneke slug shell. See if it passes through the chokes of your barrels without binding.

That reloading bench is way to neat.

I'm jealous.

I believe the bulges in your drilling were caused by shooting newer shells with plastic wads. The older drillings were made for, and choked for fiber wads. The plastic wads are much harder. When I bought my Sodia drilling,same gauge and caliber as yours, it was bulged as yours. I had Dietrich Apel shorten the barrels to 22 inches and regulate them for slugs. I still wound up with about .005 thou choke.
Tom

Just use standard 8x57 dies for .323 bullets. Shellholder will be diff. I use RCBS for mine. You can also shoot standard 8x57 in your drilling. It just will not extract. Tom

Yes! The rings are from shooting modern shells with plastic wads, and probably from use of maximum loads. I shoot mostly drillings in my hunting and have done so for about 45 years. I search the internet for older paper shells with fiber wads and buy modern ammo with only fiber wads.

Drillings are a bit fragile and don't take to being hammered with heavy loads of any kind...rifle or shotgun...If one relieves the chokes a bit and uses standard velocity and low pressure loads, the drilling will last a long while. If you want to get maximum velocity and firepower, use a bolt rifle or a pump shotgun.

L2S
I believe the newer drillings are made for and choked for plastic wads. They are also proofed higher than the older ones. My Sauer 12x12x9.3x74 has much thicker walls in the shot tubes than the Sodia. The Sodia was made in 1957 and the Sauer was in the early 90's Also, the Sauer has longer tapers leading into the choke and has less constriction.
Tom

I knew I had read this somewhere. This is a reprint from the "Colt Sauer Drillings" owners manual:

IMPORTANT: Shotshells containing iron or steel are used at the discretion of the owner. Tests indicate that prolonged use of steel shot may result in some deformation or opening (enlargement) of the choke of the shotgun barrel. Under most conditions this enlargement will not adversely affect shot pattern shape or density, thus the effectiveness of the shotgun is not changed. However, a slight exterior deformation in the choke area which would be visible in a reflective light may occur if steel shot is fired.

tr,

You are correct regarding the newer drillings. I shot earlier drillings for so long that it became my mindset. Still, even the newer drillings should be pampered a bit. I admit that I have shot 1 1/4oz loads in my Sauer 3000 and Merkel 12/12-9,3X74R, but not as a steady diet. The Merkel loosened up, and Lee LeBas had to put it back on face...sure improved the rifle's accuracy!

In my Sauer drilling the Brenneke KO slug hits about 3 inches hnigh and 3 inches right at 50 yards when using the scope sighted in for the 30-06 bbl.
If I can get close I will try and shoot a doe or a pig this weekend.

I will also be setting on the duck pond in the mornings as well.

An interesting thread and some super information from enlightemend Drilling afficiendoes.

I've been in on alot of Drilling shooting in my day (although I must confess I do not own one!).

Drillings are not made to take a pounding although some have held up under tremendous use. After the war (yes, I'm aging myself and have been over here for decades!) I've seen Drilling owners shot Trap & Skeet on the weekends, use them (often) for hunting and shoot rifle tournaments with them as well. Some held up super, others shot loose after this kind of heavy use.

Generally the Teutons were and are NOT huge bird shooters (in the air - let me qualify this). Yes, in times past large Driven hunts occured with Drillings being used althought the vast majority of game shot were Hares (ground game) as opposed to Birds (yes, they also shoot Cappercaillie and Black Grouse with the shotguns tubes - at extended ranges mostly). The past (and current) masters of shooting "Flying Birds" are the British who have refined this to it's ultimate development. For this reason German shotgun tubes are generally of tighter constiction both in tube and choke and are manufactured with tolerances made for shooting at extended ranges at ground game with felt wad ammunition. This is by and large still true and can be proved by the measurements of my two modern Merkel .12 & 20 gauge SxS's. Although choked 1/4 & 3/4 (Improved Cylinder & Improved Modified in .12 gauge and the .20 gauge 1/2 & 1/1 (Modified & Full) both shotguns shoot very tight patterns and are the same tubes used for Drilling manufacture from the same providers to the German trade for both Shotguns & Drillings. Net, the Germans have a penchant for "tighter" tubes, so therefore, often felt wad ammo, either shot or slugs gives better patterning and performance with this type of ammunition. Also, the vast majority of Drillings were manufactured with 1/2 (right-Modified) & 1/1 (left-Full) shotgun barrels.

Normally, the Drillings that received special attention to the shotgun tubes for "Brenneke" or slugs regualtion had this specified by the person who ordered or purchased the Drilling. Some simply by luck of the draw shot one or both barrels, regardless of choke to a reasonable level of accuracy with the rifle barrels, sights & scope, others not. Mostly, the Gunmsiths did this work, not the factories.

For many who purchased used Drillings and wanted the barrels regulated; Well, trust me when I relate to you - you do not want to see what some gunsmiths did & do to the inside of the shotgun muzzles and chokes to regulate the Brennekes, Whew! It can be nasty - but they get it to work, occiasionally at the expense of the shot patterning, sometimes not.

Asking what we do from Drilling shotgun tubes; insert barrels, slugs, shot aligninment/regulation with a rifle barrel plus open & optical sights is a wonder in itself that sometimes works fantastically and othertimes; well it simply goes astray. Every barrel set is a law unto itself.

Obviously, many here have good luck with their demands on their Drilling barrels and yes, this is great but I would be very judicious about the diet my drilling (if I had one) would receive of newly produced & legislated non-lead shot and the even newer vast array of "Wonder" slugs in tightly constricted German shotgun barrels and chokes.

I've fired a lot of slugs through drillings with the oldest one haveing been made in 1935 on up to new ones. (foster and Brenneke type)

I've never seen a moments problem with doing so, and i'll continue to use them in mine...

I couldn't even guess how many have went through the bbls in the pict.???

DM

DM,

The rifle is a 9,3X7?R...??? Who did the choke tubes?

quote:

DM,

The rifle is a 9,3X7?R...??? Who did the choke tubes?

The rifle bbl. is 8x57jrs and i handload 200 grain Nosler partitions at just over 2,500 fps for it and use them exclusively.... I've harvested a truck load of meat for my freezer with this gun/load.

The choke tubes were made and installed by a machine shop in Tahlequah Oklahoma long ago. I have no idea if they are even still in business or not, but the guy there sure did an excelent job on my install. His price at that time was very fair too.

DM

quote:

Originally posted by foxfire:
I knew I had read this somewhere. This is a reprint from the "Colt Sauer Drillings" owners manual:

IMPORTANT: Shotshells containing iron or steel are used at the discretion of the owner. Tests indicate that prolonged use of steel shot may result in some deformation or opening (enlargement) of the choke of the shotgun barrel. Under most conditions this enlargement will not adversely affect shot pattern shape or density, thus the effectiveness of the shotgun is not changed. However, a slight exterior deformation in the choke area which would be visible in a reflective light may occur if steel shot is fired.

No good deed goes unpunished. ??????? Your quote is wrong and makes NO sense!

I shoot Brenneke slugs out of my Drilling, however I opened up the chokes to Skeet/Skeet, which protects the barrels and makes it a more effective grouse, woodcock, and quail gun.

Just from many years of hunting drillings.

Drillings are much too delicate to shoot 'slugs' in!

Get a real 'slug' gun that can be used anywhere.

I suggest the stronger Ithaca Deerslayer!

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
Drillings are much too delicate to shoot 'slugs' in!

Get a real 'slug' gun that can be used anywhere.

I suggest the stronger Ithaca Deerslayer!

I will agree to disagree on this issue. I’ve been shooting slugs from many Drillings as well as SxS shotguns for decades. Never once a problem. I just don’t like shooting slugs through tight chokes. Anything tighter than improved is a no-go for me.

What md said. The Germans been shooting slugs through drillings since about 1900 I think. Brenneke's are ideal. Foster's...never did like them in anything.

When someone wants to be sure to loose a war use what weapons the germans do!

The many Canadian veterans of both World Wars who raised me, started me shooting, Easter 1958 and who worked with me in the western and northern Canadian wilderness certainly would not agree with this BS.

About 20 of these men were actual relatives and several had wounds from these same "germans" weapons.

My Merkel drilling, My Browning 7500 and the Valmont combo I used to have were all just fine with slugs, Fosters and Brennekes........

Drillings already have a rifle barrel .. why on earth would you need to shoot a slug? Use the darn rifle barrel as intended!

Bear in mind that to keep weight down, drillings have somewhat thinner than normal barrels. If the barrels have been honed, or externally "polished" for refinishing, you compound the problem.

Brenneke slugs are made of harder lead than Fosters. That, and their solid construction gives them superior penetration.

So if you have to do it, then

1. Measure your walls and constrictions. No more than 30 thou constriction and walls at least 25 thou at the thinnnest point.
2. Use soft slugs esp if you have a full or xfull barrel

If you want a sxs slug gun that will shoot Brennekes all day long (as well as shot with the sight folded down), look here (shameless plug):

I own two drillings, and I shoot Brenneke slugs in the both of them.
My Merkel rifle drilling likes Brenneke exact. This drilling is configured with 2x9,3x74R rifle barrels over a 20-76 shotgun barrel. The range is 50 meters (left picture, two shots with Brenneke Exact).

My Merkel standard drilling is in 2x20-76 over a 8x57IRS rifle barrel. Tis drilling prints the Fiocchi Brenneke slugs nicely at 50 meters (right picture and below).

Skaubjonn,
Nice Drilling!
Jim

Snap, agreed. I seriously doubt it was the quality of weapons that lost the war for Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Drillings already have a rifle barrel .. why on earth would you need to shoot a slug? Use the darn rifle barrel as intended!
xxx

I love the versatility of combination guns. I have an insert barrel in 6x70R in my drillin. I can use it as a double barrelled shotgun, add a Brenneke for wild boar og roe deer, and the insert barrel for plinking birds or roe deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:

quote:

Originally posted by foxfire:
I knew I had read this somewhere. This is a reprint from the "Colt Sauer Drillings" owners manual:

IMPORTANT: Shotshells containing iron or steel are used at the discretion of the owner. Tests indicate that prolonged use of steel shot may result in some deformation or opening (enlargement) of the choke of the shotgun barrel. Under most conditions this enlargement will not adversely affect shot pattern shape or density, thus the effectiveness of the shotgun is not changed. However, a slight exterior deformation in the choke area which would be visible in a reflective light may occur if steel shot is fired.

No good deed goes unpunished. ??????? Your quote is wrong and makes NO sense!

………………………………………... I can't believe you have never heard that quote before, and fail to understand it's meaning!

So I shot my JP Sauer Drilling today. I shot Brenneke Slugs in the shotgun barrels and they register about 2.5” apart at 50 yards, good enough for me. Call it a double rifle. And then I immediately fired the rifle barrel and it placed on the inside of one of the slugs. I take it as the most effective everything gun one can find. drillings aren’t for everyone, but I think they are the best if properly regulated like mine.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:

quote:

Originally posted by foxfire:
I knew I had read this somewhere. This is a reprint from the "Colt Sauer Drillings" owners manual:

IMPORTANT: Shotshells containing iron or steel are used at the discretion of the owner. Tests indicate that prolonged use of steel shot may result in some deformation or opening (enlargement) of the choke of the shotgun barrel. Under most conditions this enlargement will not adversely affect shot pattern shape or density, thus the effectiveness of the shotgun is not changed. However, a slight exterior deformation in the choke area which would be visible in a reflective light may occur if steel shot is fired.

No good deed goes unpunished. ??????? Your quote is wrong and makes NO sense!

………………………………………... I can't believe you have never heard that quote before, and fail to understand it's meaning!

99 fails to understand combination guns altogether, Mac. Don't waste your finger tips.