I recently purchased an excellent condition Savage 2400 (made by Valmet) 12 gauge/.308 combination gun. It looks to be a very well made gun that is fairly pleasing to the eye. The problem however, is barrel regulation. While the .308 barrel is quite accurate with the 180 grain Remington SP ammo that I've tried, the shotgun barrel shoots to a point of impact that is about 4" low at 20 yards. The only thing I can think if is to regulate the .308 barrel to shoot to the middle of the shotgun pattern and then file down the front sight to gain the correct sighting elevation. Does this sound reasonable and is there enough regulation freedom to do this? I'm hoping to find a good solution as this Savage seems like it could be a great gun to have in the rack.

Chuck

My Valmet 412 has a flip up rear sight that is not adjustable for windage or elevation. Brenneke slugs strike about a foot low at 50 yards, while the 223 barrel can be adjusted to the sights. Been thinking a fella could file the sights until the slugs land where I need them, then regulate the rifle barrel. When used with shot the stock fit is probably more important than the height of the front sight. As it is I don't shoot the Valmet much at all and should either rechamber it (220 Swift would be more generally useful, and a fella could fit the barrel for choke tubes while he was at it), rebarrel it (a 9.3x74R double rifle would be more fun), or liquidate it (that Kimber 84M Montana in 260 looks like a very good idea).

Do the Savage 2400 (Valmet?) combinations have a wedge in the middle of the barrels like the Valmet double rifle barrel sets? ie under the front guard.

If so, decreasing pressure on the barrels with the wedge may drop the rifle barrels point of impact.

No, increasing the wedge pressure should lower the rifle barrel impact, if the rifle barrel is on the top.

Or, you could wrap some 180 grit cloth backed abrasive around a 5/8" dowel, and take out some choke on the top 1/2 side of the shotgun barrel. Only a few thou will raise the impact of slugs. It's a rub-and-try proposition, done at the range.

your oct 20 analysis was correct -
liquidate it !

THINK ABOUT THIS - what kind of gunmaker would have non-adjustable sights, but adjustable barrels ??

i can understand now why these things are sold so cheap and were never popular .

First off, one has to understand that the barrel adjustments are to make the barrels both shoot to the same point of impact, NOT to adjust that point of impact in relation to the target. That's one of the reasons Valmet always sold scope mounts for their rifle combos.

First one adjusts the barrels so they both shoot to the same point, then he adjusts the SCOPE so that point is where he wants it. (Of course, he can always substitute an adjustable open rear sight, if he doesn't want a scope.) Same works for the rifle/shotgun combos IF the shooter is using shotgun slugs.

The system does not work as well for double shotgun combinations, though it can be made to perform okay, just more work. The best way to adjust shotgun barrel impact is to get the two barrels to shoot together, then modify the buttstock so that the gun points where the shooter wants it.

quote:

Originally posted by xs headspace:
No, increasing the wedge pressure should lower the rifle barrel impact, if the rifle barrel is on the top.

The rifle barrel on a Valmet combo is on the bottom!

I don't remember if the combo has regulating wedges or not, but if they do, NitroX is correct, the middle wedge is to adjust the the two barrels to shoot together by increasing, or relieving the tention on the barrels. In this case there is too much pressure on the middle wedge causeing the barrels to cross considerably
By relieveing the tention rifle will shoot lower, and the shot barrel shoot higher. The wedge at the muzzle is to ajust the point of impact to a vertical inline with each other!

If the rifle is in verticle line with the center of the shot pattern, then you simply relieve the tention on the middle wedge under the forearm till the rifle prints on point of aim at 100 yds, and the sights point to the middle of the shot pattern at 35 yds, then the combo is regulated!

The rifle should shoot to the sights at 100 yds, and if regulated properly, the front sight acts as a bead for 35 yd paterning. No need for adjustable sights on this firearm, the adjustment is in the regulation wedges!

Tom, the Valmet, (Savage) Tikka, are very well made firarms, and the reason they were not very popular is because they were ugly, not because they weren't good. I had a Valmet 412 with a pair of 375 Winchester barrels. The rate of twist was 1 in 12" exactly the same as the 375H&H, so I re-chambered it for 375JDJ, re-regulated the barrels for a composit group, and cut the sights for 100 yds, and permently soldered the wedges, and installed side ribs, then slimmed the fore stock, changeing the looks of that rifle considerably. I wish I still had that rifle because it was a tack driver, and litterly slapped caribou flat on their bellies at 200 yds!

I have a 12 ga Valmet now that I'm thinking about turning into a rifled 12 bore rifle with a pair of your rifled 12 bore barrels, and one of your ribs with built-in quarter ribs, and front sight ramp!

mac d, thanks for your comments on the valmet/tikka. i remember 100 yrs ago when they first started to import them. i visited val forgetts shop (navy arms ) in new jersey - went about 50 miles out of my way - just to see them. what a total disappointment. they were like clubs ! way too heavy and ugly.
i was truly disappointed because i thought -at last here is a multi barrel set i can afford to buy ! well i never did get one. if you had success with one that's great. but it seems to make it look decent you had to do a lot of extra work.

i'll be glad to sell you the parts to convert your o/u, just remember they can also be used to convert a s x s shotgun too ! and if you're ambitous get a browning bss and put rifle sleevers into it like searcy did years ago. cheers, tom

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
mac d, thanks for your comments on the valmet/tikka. i remember 100 yrs ago when they first started to import them. i visited val forgetts shop (navy arms ) in new jersey - went about 50 miles out of my way - just to see them. what a total disappointment. they were like clubs ! way too heavy and ugly.
i was truly disappointed because i thought -at last here is a multi barrel set i can afford to buy ! well i never did get one. if you had success with one that's great. but it seems to make it look decent you had to do a lot of extra work.

i'll be glad to sell you the parts to convert your o/u, just remember they can also be used to convert a s x s shotgun too ! and if you're ambitous get a browning bss and put rifle sleevers into it like searcy did years ago. cheers, tom

Tom, I've built four double rifles on BSS actions, and about the time Butch started to do them.I also did a couple on Baretta O/U actions

I knew butch casually when he was in farmington, NM! thats' when he started building doubles, and I saw some of his work at gun shows, when I lived in El Paso, Texas.

On the Valmet, I didn't do much to get them right! I just re-chambered the 375 Win barrels for the 375 JDJ, and adjusted the regulation with the factory adjastments, and soldered them permently, and added side ribs! No problem at all! I simply removed the shot barrels, on some of the old shotguns, and cut new barrels to fit, and chambered, soldered them in, and regulated,again, no problem at all! It's not rocket science, just a little machine knowledge, and some common sence!

][QUOTEOriginally posted by MacD37:


NitroX is correct, the middle wedge is to adjust the the two barrels to shoot together by increasing, or relieving the tention on the barrels.[/QUOTE]



I believe you will find that BOTH wedges are to get the barrels to shoot together. One wedge gets them to both shoot to the same elevation, the other wedge gets them to shoot to the same horizontal point. That is what I found in adjusting mine and is also what my original instruction manual told me. After both those are correctly adjusted, then the point of impact on the target is adjusted by moving the sights.

Mine has six different sets of barrels, so I have been through it numerous times.

quote:

I had a Valmet 412 with a pair of 375 Winchester barrels. The rate of twist was 1 in 12" exactly the same as the 375H&H, so I re-chambered it for 375JDJ, re-regulated the barrels for a composit group, and cut the sights for 100 yds....!

Exactly. You adjusted the sights after the barrels shot together.

The Valmet 412 series does in fact have some windeage adjustment in the rear sight. A very small allen wrench, 1.5mm I believe, will move the rear sight. Loosen one side, then tighten the other at the pivot screws. BE CAREFUL, as the sights are fregile and can break if all is not done with care. This adjustment in conjunction with the front wedge adjustment can get the rifle and shotgun windeage shooting correctly. Adding pressure to the elevation wedge makes for radical increases in rifle elevation, and simply tightening up the set screw can make for big changes...and some frustration.

The Savage 2400's were made by Valmet, but they are a smaller framed gun and not quite as strong, the design "is" similar though. (you can see my 2400 below)

First thing i'd do is to try all the different makes of slugs i could get me hands on. All brands do NOT shoot to the same POA. Find the one you like best, and then you need to alter the iron sights to sight "that brand" of slug in to where you want it. You can file the sights or even have a smith make new ones for you...

Next you need to find the rifle ammo your going to use. Try several brands, in the weight and style of bullet, you prefer for the HEAVIEST animials you will hunt.

Once the bullet/load of choise is found, you are ready to regulate the rifle bbl. to the "iron sights".

Once that is done, you can mount a scope on it and sight in the rifle bbl. to what ever range you prefer...

BTW, It's hard to beat a 180 grain bullet for "all around use" in the 308 Win....

DM