Gents!
I have come to realize that I am in need of a good drilling for my mixed hunting trips.
The calibers should be minimum 12/70 and 6,5x55SE and the shot gun barrels should enjoy steel shots as well as slugs. The LOP should be around 36 cm (or 14") without hogback, preferrably straight stock.
I cannot afford the new Krieghoffs, but used might be possible.

Sincerely
Daniel

Steel proofed? The only one I know of for sure is the Blaser. It wouldn't hurt to ask Sauer if their guns are steel proof, they make a fine drilling.

Its no problen to find good used drillings for a low price. But I think he steel proof ist the problem. Only the new Blaser and Krieghoff drillings have this feature.
My smith has some used drillings on stock. I visit him on friday, if you want I can ask him.

Burkhard

Burkhard!
That would be lovely!
The swedish laws on hunting indicates that all practice and waterfowl hunting must be done with other ammunition than lead, which for economy reasons implies steel, and this will probably be put into action in other areas as well. I do not shoot clay pigeons with tungsten/wolfram shots...
Rifle calibre, preferrably rimmed, perhaps 7x57r which makes it legal for moose.

Sincerely
Daniel

Can shotgun barrels be prepared for steel shot use by electrolytic chrome coating???

Daniel
My smith has 3 drillings at the moment on stock

1. 16 x 16/ 8x57IRS with a 6x42 Zeiss scope for 800 EURO

2. A 16 x 16/7x65R (no imformations asbout the price and the scope)

3. 16 x 16/7x65 with a 6x42 Zeiss Diavari with claw mounts. Price 950 Euro

Thats not much at the moment. But he bought over 20 Guns (with 6 drillings) from an old hunter who stopped hunting. I think there will be some interessting guns.

As you can see, many of the old drillings have the 16 gauge. I hope thats not a problem in sweden.

The other problem are the claw mounts, the most expensive way to fix a scope, and if you want to install a new scope you need new bases.

if you want, I can give you in about 2 weeks (than he will heve the new rifles) detailed informations and prices about some more drillings.

Burkhard

Daniel med flera, sorry guys but we are kind, Daniel and I, both Swedes.

A quality shotgun, can be shot with steel if it´s choked half choke or less.

The training rounds with steel, are further more ok to use.

Most good modern drillings, can have any of face issues adressed in a god manner, that means that one can use steel shot for training, and the other exotic stuff for wildfowl hunting.

Burkhard, reading about the stuff your smith has inhouse, would it be possible for me to have pics or other further info about the drillings.

I have a urge for either a 9,3x74R/16/16 claw ringed or a smaller one in let´s say 5,6x52R or 6,5X57R and what ever shotty barell there is.

I currently run all 12/16/20 in my guns at home.

Best regards Chris

Burkhard you have pm.

When the gun laws are as they are here in Sweden, I am in need of a drilling with a rifle barrel of minimum 6,5x55 energy level and shotgun above cal.20. Caliber 16 is a good candidate. If I could come across a drilling with 2 sets of barrels for instance 16/70x2 + 7x57r and 16/70x2 + .22 hornet I would be able to bring a drilling both to the mountains as well as to the forest...

There is a law in this district stating that it is illegal to transport or use anything from 222rem or more powerful than it in the mountains. Thus, shotguns and .22 hornet are the most powerful cartridges allowed for hunting there. But in the forests there are deers and mooses around, and the minimum caliber for moose here is 6,5x55. The maximum number of guns each hunter can own is 6, unless he/she are a PH. Thus the limitation in the ownership of guns prohibits me to own several drillings, but as exchange barrels are not counted as an extra weapon I could have many barrels but just one stock...
The Finn classic/tikka/valmet 412/512 weapon system counts as one weapon, regardless of the number of barrels...

So, in short, drillings with 1/2 & 1/4 choke, above cal.20 and rimmed, 6,5x55 or above rifle barrel, with claw or recknagel mounts, possibly with exchange barrel in .22hornet is most interesting.

Sincerely
Daniel

It's not cheap to shoot, but I am fairly certain that steel alternatives exist that are both non-toxic and soft enough to be shot from older barrels. You might look into Hevi-Shot. Again, at 1.50-2.00 USD a pop, it's spendy, but may be a trade-off for you.

Cheers,

KG

Daniel,
Whereabouts are you in Lappland - I have a friend that lives in Jokkmokk. We have hunted Grizzly and Black Bear together here in BC.
On the topic of drillings - Burkhard has several options for you , you can't go wrong at those prices.
For myself, I have a Krieghoff Optima doublerifle drilling - 9.3x74R (2x) & 20/76 on the bottom. Built to order by Krieghoff, handengraved and with selected wood, and with a 1.5-6x42 scope in QD mounts. I also have a short 22LR insert barrel for grouse and animals on my trapline. After having tried almost anything when it comes to hunting rifles, I consider this the ultimate gun for Northern British Columbia.

Vasa

KG
The "alternative" ammunition available here in Sweden has a price tag of $ 4 / case, and thats too darn expencive to take it out on the shooting range, or to take it on duck or grouse hunting where a normal day would yield 50 fired cases or thereabouts.

Vasa
I am located in Kiruna, in the same district as Jokkmokk, but a bit further north. A krieghoff would not be wrong at all, but it is seldom that one is found to a price that I could afford. But, if luck strikes it might happen...

/Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by Huglu:
KG
The "alternative" ammunition available here in Sweden has a price tag of $ 4 / case, and thats too darn expencive to take it out on the shooting range, or to take it on duck or grouse hunting where a normal day would yield 50 fired cases or thereabouts.

I said it was expensive. 50 shots? What's your limit on the birds? Sounds like if you were a better shot, it'd be manageable...

Actually thats is 4 USD per round that Huglu is trying to adress, it´s really to pricy..

Second q, in Sweden there are no limits like in the US, we have selfimposed limits and the hunting law (Jaktlag) states that one is only entitled to take the interest of the population of animals not the stock.

In all it´s quite selfregulatory.

For phtarmigan and other forrest/fjäll birds there are limits

Best regards Chris

Gents!
As Husqvarna said it is a self regulatory system in many aspects. The restrictions as of today are 8 ptarmigans / hunter and day in the mountain region, while the coast lacks such restrictions. I had around 150 geese flying around me when hunting this fall, and I stopped counting at 220 individuals of the common duck in the river here. When those gangs of ducks come roaming in with 15 minute spacing or so, it is just to lock and load. You will get 4 shots / pass and with luck you then have some birds in the water depending on your shooting skills of course. The same goes with the pigeon/doves.

Anyway, alternative ammunition is too expencive, and steel destroys the saw mills.

I have a opportunity on a slightly used krieghoff in 12/6,5x55. It is still pricey but i dont know what a gun that has fired less than 5 shots should fetch?

Edit. Have now seen the gun and it is a krieghoff plus in 12/70 and 6,5x55, plain wood and no engravings. No ejectors or selective extractors, combi cocking and rifle / shotgun selector on the right of the toplever and combi cock. It has 2 small insex screws for scope attachment but no front area for attachment is prepared. The gun are said to have been fired 3 times totally. Price as new according to salesman is 57K SEK, or around € 5700. What would you think it is worth now?

I am not certain that I like the combi cocking device....

Sincerely
Daniel

As I recall, and please rebut me on this but the Krieghoff only has two locks, that is should one need to fire two shots and then the rifled barrel one would have to re cock the locks?

Regarding price, yes they tend to be costly these drillings however I start at 2/3 of original price and then subtract value for what ever faults I might find.

For this drilling it´s the rifled cal that will have me starting to subtract, its not rimmed.


I want a rimmed cartridge in my drilling.

Best regards Chris.

I would also much prefer a rimmed cartridge in a drilling, but can it be changed afterwards in some way? for instance to a 6,5x57r or 6,5x65r without too much money?
When both triggers are fired, you have to re-cock it to fire the rifle barrel since each trigger fires a shotgun barrel. It should recock automatically for the shotgun barrels according to the krieghoff website, but I did not succeed with that when I tested it with dummys in the shop. I might just not have opened it enough to re-cock it. It is in brand new state and it is said to handle steel shots as well which is a big +. There is another similar rifle for sale and the price for that is 34k and it has a claw mounted helia on it. But, it is 20 years old too. I dont have the age of this one and cannot guess how old it is, the plus series was discontinued in 2004, so it is atleast 3 years old.
Another advantage is that the stock fits me now. I dont have to make it longer as I must on my SBS.

Sincerely
Daniel

Huglu,

The salesman that will sell a Krieghoff Plus for 5700 Euro will make a big profit! I have seen them advertised,very slightly used, at several places (without scope) for 2-3000Euro. The Plus has an aluminum frame. It you are going to do some serious hunting, find a Krieghoff Optima with the steel receiver (frame). It will last much better and is the evolution of the Plus model. I think you might like the Combi Cocking Device (CCD), I love it on my Optima.... I doubt that you will ever need to shoot three shot in rapic succession, two locks with the CCD is plenty. You might also find a Krieghoff Trumpf , a nice Heym or a Merkel for much lower prices than what you mentioned. All three would serve you nicely!

MVH,
Vasa

Gents
The drillings I have seen so far here in sweden roam from 20-50k, which is roughly 2000-5000€.
The question with the krieghoff plus drilling is if it is worth around 50% of the new price according to the salesman(5700€) since it is not a rimmed cartridge and a aluminium frame, without the base for the front claw mount?

On the krieghoff international website I read that the plus and other models could be equipped with extra barrels up to 9,3x74, If this is true, then the aluminium must be strong?

Sincerely
Daniel

Daniel,

Krieghoff's latest website does not show the Plus model, I believe tht it has been replaced by the Optima. This one can be had in both steel and Dural receiver. My 2008 Krieghoff catalog shows that in the Optima with steel receiver you can use insert barrels up to 9.3x74R, in the one with Dural-aluminum receiver you can go up to the 6x70R caliber. Weight difference between Dual and steel receiver is about 300g. (less than 1 lb.). The Optima has a barrel extension that goes into the receiver, the Plus model did not have this. The Optima is also built as a "Safari" drilling in 2x 470NE, and 1x 20/76 on the bottom, speaking to its strength.
As a regular drilling used mostly with shotshells , a Plus model at 3000Euro might not be a bad deal. Instead of expensive claw mounts and a scope, you might get by really well with a Docter Sight II (dot sight) that can be mounted directly to the rib by a competent gunsmith.

Vasa

+1 on the Docter II reflex sight.
I have one on my Blaser 95, and it's the sight that lives on the BBLs, with the scope only getting a run for those evening shoots or longer distances (>150m).

Daniel, Merkel and Chapuis are steel proofed, it should not be really difficult to find them where you live? HTH

Gents
There are no problem in getting a steel proofed new drilling here. The "problem" in that case is the quality of the work as compared to the price of it, as well as the weight of them. New drillings have the same barrel diameter for a .22 hornet and a 9,3x74, often ending up at 3,6kg (8 lbs) or more without optics. The "workmanship" on the new drillings can not even be compared to the earlier ones. The new krieghoff that I am looking at has a lot less quality in the work than my sbs from the 1920s, although the krieghoff fetches € 3000 or so, while the FN would get less than €500. My SbS have a weight of 2,8 kg (6,2 lbs) and I can walk all day with it in hand, or ready to fire when hunting without a dog to indicate where the birds are. A normal hunting day covers 20-25 km (12-15 miles) in forests and mountain terrain with bogs, mires as well as farmed land and I do not want to haul around something heavier than needed due to shortcuts in the production at the factory.

With the krieghoff plus that I have seen I wonder if the combi cocking device is going to get easier to cock after a while? Because now it is all other than "smooth & easy" and it is too hard to cock it fast.
I mostly hunt birds/hares and other smaller animals with a shotgun, and occasionaly get into a situation where I need a rapid rifle shot on a roe, fox, moose or the like, simply where there is no time to change from a shotgun to a rifle on the back. So, in 90% of the usage it shall handle as smoothly as my FN SbS from 1920. That implies that when a bird takes of from behind a spruce 20 m/yd infront of me, the rifle shall be cocked BEFORE it reaches my shoulder and the shot goes off. I think the combi cocking device is too hard to operate here. It should be more like the hardness of a normal safety.

As long as I am aware of the fact that if I fire both shotgun barrels I have to switch to rifle and recock, then that would be ok, it just takes 1 second extra and can be done without taking the eyes of the prey. I would not mind putting a scope in claw mounts on it either. I think I can take game out to 100m /110yd with open sights and need the scope beyond that or for birds in trees.

Does the combi cock allow for FAST cocking, just like the subcontious action of releasing the safety when a legal animal comes in sight within the right distance? IT MUST handle just as easy as a normal safety to work properly.
I should never have to think that I have to decock it, that should be done automatically, just as it is done with the other guns I have when a prey comes in within shooting range.

Sincerely
Daniel

Huglu
I have a Blaser D99Duo in 9,3x74Rx9,3x74Rx20ga3", and I have shot Alekos D99Drilling in 20x20x308.

They are very nice shooting guns. In fact I have another D99 Duo in 308x308x20 3" on order.

They are certified for steel.

The cocking device on the Blaser or the Krieghoff has not been a problem for me. I cock the gun as I start it up to my shoulder.

I especially like the fact that the gun is uncocked until just before fireing.

The more I use this feature on the Blaser R 93, K 95 and the D99 the more I like it.