I am considering a drilling or Cape gun in a 9.3X72R (16ga shotgun BBL's), due to their handling qualities, light weight, and low price in comparison to other calibers combinations. I've seen where S&B imports loaded ammo and Norma is now selling brass in this caliber. (I would prefer RWS cases if they are available.) How is this caliber to reload? Is it more suited for cast bullets verses jacketed ones (being .364 diameter); and does it have enough power to be used for big deer up to 200 yards and still be loaded within safe pressure levels for the action? If so, what European brands or "makers" should I be looking for? Thanks, Mags

I use 200 gr. .366 bullets, @ 2000 fps, and experience no problems and good accuracy.

Mags:

It is a functional twin to the .38-55. When you look for a rifle, make sure that you get one that is proved for smokeless powder. Also make sure which version the rifle barel is chambered for, as there were several 9.3x72 rounds. I would suggets that you get a few rounds of modern ammo or brass to use for verifying that it will chamber modern ammo.

Dave

Look at this thread for further info about this
cartridge.
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=...earch=true#Post15875

Also be aware that there are 2 9.3X72R cartridges! The other is a "9.3X72R Sauer" Both have different measurements. I'd suggest a chambercast to make sure.

Mr. Mags,
This combination seemed to have the greatest possibility for us as well. Although we had not been able to find any performance data for the 9.3x72R, had hoped ballistics would be more in the range of 2000fps with a 290gr bullet. We did not realize it was more like the 1400fps/250gr of the .38-55.
While it is certainly adequate for our Moose hunting range of 75yds or less, it seems a little lite for Grizz. (Yes, we know. Shot placement!)
More thought required.
Best Wishes

Mags:

Another combination to consider is one with an 8mmx57R rifle barrel. If it is pre-WWII it will probably be a .318 bore. One big advantage is that the ammo is a lot less expensive than 9.3x72. An even bigger advantage is that the performance on game is a lot better.

Dave

Mr. Loud-n-Boomer,
Yes, that is another one we are giving serious thought. If we could find one in our budget range would snap it up in a heartbeat.
Combined with a 16ga, would be ideal for our purposes.
Best Wishes

Windwalker:

I don't know what your budget is, but if you look carefully and are willing to accept 65mm (2-1/2 inch) shotgun chambers, you should be able to find a decent hammer gun for around $1,200 or a decent hammerless for around $1,600.

Dave

Mr. Loud-n-Boomer,
That is well within our budget and the 16ga (2 1/2 inch) is not a problem.
Would prefer the hammer gun as we enjoy them very much.
Currently using a Savage Model 24 .30-30AI x 12ga for some of our mixed bag forays.
Our only problem is having to buy via the internet. Heard a lot of horror stories.
Best Wishes

Mr. Mags,
My apology sir. Did not mean to hijack your thread.
We are of a like mind and would be interested in hearing more of your quest.
Best Wishes

I have had a couple of older 16 ga. guns (an English hammer double and a O/U 16 ga./9.2x72R) chamber-reamed an additional 1/4 inch by Dennis Olsen of Plains, Montana. His work is absolutely flawless.

I have a 16X16X8x57jr (.318 bore) and Loud-n-Boomer, you're right about it being a great combination. However, I was considering a lightweight companion piece with a larger bore and the 9.3X72R "caught my eye" as a "relatively" cost effective way to go. I hadn't considered the black powder guns out there or the two diffenent versions, ie. Saur, etc. that "lurks" behind the advertising "banners". Thanks for the "heads up". WindWalker, no apology required; I'm shopping for ideas and I appreciate you adding yours to the mix. I also hadn't given much thought to the idea of a hammer gun, even though I like them; however, I am always concerned about getting "stuck" with a "Damascus" barrel or "black powder only" gun that has not been "proofed". (Is this a valid concern?) Mr. Brooks your "thread" was most helpful and the Nitro forum even has some loads listed that indicate that the 9.3X72R can be loaded to about 2000 to 2200fps with a 193gr bullet and up to 1800 with a 250gr. Resized .366 bullets (if the bore is .364) would be simple to resize. I don't know if the "twist" would take the heavier and longer bullets, however. Conifer, I wondered just how difficult it would be to have the "short" 16ga chamber "reamed" and who would do it- thanks. I'll keep looking; I might be as well served with a Cape gun in that caliber or maybe a bigger one like a 11.15X60 or .450. Regards, Mags

whoops.....I meant "1/4" and not "3/4" inch.
This results in a 2&3/4-inch shotshell chamber.

Before you consider having a chamber reamed for the 2-3/4" shells, make sure that there is enough steel over the chambers to do so. I have been told that there should be a minimum of 0.095" barrel thickness at the chamber. A lot of the 2-1/2 inch guns I have played with (including the two that I have owned) did not have thick enough barrels to ream the chamber.

Dave

MAGS

you should plan to attend the louisville , ky gunshow feb 24 & 25 at the fairgrounds. it is one of the largest shows in the east and plenty of old drillings show up.

unless ornate, no one wants hammer drillings - they sell cheaply, when they do sell. some ask a lot of money for them but the stay on the table show after show. bargain hard if you go that way.

try to get one with a scope on it. that will greatly enhance its shooting range

forget the 9,3 x 72 unless it is a SAUER chambering. all the rest are quite anemic.

you would do better with an 8mm - of either cal 318 or 323

Tomo - Thanks for the gun show info, as well as the good advice. I've got a trip planned to Atlanta around that time and might beable to "swing by". Regards, Mags

tomo577 what is cheap?

cheap is under $1,000. unless beautifully engraved ( not the common acid etched ones ) no one wants the old hammer drillings. they usually are in anemic calibers, often missing scope rings ( i have them ) bores corroded from black powder shor shotgun chambers - easily corrected if enough metal there.

sellers may ask big money for them, but after hauling them around for a year they usually come to their senses and move on. those that don't will be buried with them !

I've been hearing that the Louisville show should be a good one for these kind of guns I'll be there can I expect to see more contemporary german guns as well.

I would as well recomend the 8x57 if your shopping around for a vintage drilling. I have three of them and they have accounted for a lot of game.

I like the 9.3X72R and have loaded for it for years. They usually have slow twist bbls that favor lighter bullets than most of the 9.3's available. I use 180 gr Speer 358 bullets that I upset to 366 in a swaging die I made for it. Shoots them great a little over 2000 fps and can be punched up a couple hundred more but I try to take it easy on these old girls. The 16 ga short chambers work great with brass cases. You can ream them out to 2 3/4 if there's enough steel, but I kind of like them the way the maker turned them out. Have killed a lot of deer, hogs & turkey with this one. Here in N. FL, you're likely to run upon ducks, quail, hogs, deer & a bunch of other stuff on a day's hunt & the old drilling fits right in.
I've had a lot of drillings over the years but now use an old hammer "guild" drilling more than any of them (in 9.3X72R). Most you find will be in this caliber (Vs the Sauer version).

DOES ANYONE HAVE A 9,3 X 72 R REAMER ?

I NEED TO CLEAN UP A CHAMBER

Ammo for the Sauer has to be made from other brass. Dies will cost you a fortune, and you will probably need to send two fired cases from that gun's chamber to have correct dies made...Catch 22 time. There is no commercial loader of the Sauer 9,3X72R. Stick with the lesser 9,3X72R common chambered drillings, if you want the 9,3. I much prefer the 8X57JR and ammo is dirt cheap. If you shop, you'll find a good sound one in 16 65mm and 8X57JR for $1,600.00 + or -.

The 9.3x72 R was popular for decades among forest wardens and was said to kill game much better than it shoudl due to it's relatively low speed and kinetic energy. It was also said to kill game very cleanly without destroying meat.

I tried to copy the "typical" 9.3x72 R load from a Blaser 9.3x74 R, using the very cheap S&B SPFP 193 grain .366 bullet (designed for the x72 and not for the x74) and powders like Blue Dot or N110. I was not able to get this bullet to shoot under 60 mm at 100 meters, the Norma 232 grain Vulcan with similar loads resulted, by the way, in one-hole-groups.

The performance on roe deer is however spectacular: They drop stone dead and you can eat the meat basically up to the hole, in my opinion the best roe deer cartridge for the woods I have tested so far.

Also one hog and one whitetail buck I killed showed similar results and exit wounds in both cases. I got some SR4759 and will try to improve on the precision.

The 9.3x72 R was always considered a cartridge for up to 120 meters or so. Maybe I should just leave it as it is.

Look for a Valmet 412S in 12 ga/9.3X74. It is an O/U. You could get other barrel sets if need be. I'm pretty sure I saw some for $1,650 US. The scope base for them is a QD with one screw to turn for removal. With the combo you could switch the shotty to a slug and have both 285 gr rifle bullet and the power of a slug. (http://doublegunhq.com/searchFrame.htm ) Search for Valmet. It is most of the way to the bottom of the page for $1,450 USD! Packy

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
DOES ANYONE HAVE A 9,3 X 72 R REAMER ?

I NEED TO CLEAN UP A CHAMBER

You might be able to rent one, but I doubt you can "clean up a chamber" if it's pitted just by running a reamer in the same caliber. It's such a straight case, it would be tough. Might be better to sleeve the chamber first.

Tomo,
You can find a rental 9.3X72 reamer here.
http://www.reamerrentals.com./
I'm going to have to rent one to clean up the tubes in a double rifle I have. Appearantly there is another version of this cartridge! Mine has a 2 angle run on the "straight sides" above the rim. And the chambers are good.
If that makes sense.....

There are almost "always" drillings with a 8x57JR (.318) rifle barrel....on www.eGun.de ...and they may be obtained for around 600 Euros (about $800 US dollars). Frequently, they come with a mounted (on claw-mounts) good and interesting scope. I have bought dozens of long-guns via eGun....LOVE the site.

16x16 over 8x57R
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=514494&c=500&z=1"] [/url]
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=514495&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

16x16 over 9.3x72R
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=514497&c=500&z=1"] [/url]
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=514496&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

Rich

I would lean towards having it rechambered to 9,3x74R if it is smokeless proofed. Easier to get components for, and a much better performer on anything over 200lbs.

JMHO,

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rechambering to 9.3x74R is not advisable in many cases.
The action may not be stout enough, twist rate is definitely different, and many 9.3x72R barrels (even if nitro-proofed) have express-type rifling for lead bullets or very thin-jacketed bullets (TESCO bullets).

Fuhrmann

quote:

Originally posted by fuhrmann:
Rechambering to 9.3x74R is not advisable in many cases.
The action may not be stout enough, twist rate is definitely different, and many 9.3x72R barrels (even if nitro-proofed) have express-type rifling for lead bullets or very thin-jacketed bullets (TESCO bullets).

Fuhrmann

Good advice. Esepcially these old "doll head" underlever actions with no crossbolt or side clips. Most (nitro proofed) were only suitable for carts. in the 30-35K range. Also the barrel on most of these doesn't usually have a lot of excess metal around the chamber.

RR,

I like your drillings!!

Who made the 8X57JR? I covet it.

I have these two more utilitarian drillings on the way.

Sauer 6.5X57R/16ga



SIMSON 12GA/9,3X74R



I do tend to prefer your more Classic drillings, however.

luv 2 safari
The 9.3 is a J.P.Sauer & Sohn as well.
The 8x57 is unknown<maybe someone can tell from the Proof marks
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=519791&c=500&z=1"] [/url]
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=519790&c=500&z=1"] [/url]
[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=519789&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

Rich

They are German proof marks, and the gun was proofed March, 1923, it appears. It is a nice one! It may be a Guild gun or a lunchbox gun. Either way, it is a great drilling in the Classic chamberings.