I am considering buying an over and under barrel set for a finnclassic in 8x56jrs. I think this is just a re-badged valmet. I would be interested in any views on either the gun or chosen calibre. Also I had never considered a combination till i saw this site and am quite keen on the idea. However I would be interested to know if thats what they are (an interesting idea) or do people really come across situations were the flexibility of these weapons is of real value.

I believe that Valmet and Tikka are pretty much the same. Others can give you the exact relationship. To the point, I have a Tikka 512SD with the following:
12 ga. O/U
7x57R under 12 ga. O/U
9.3x74R O/U
2 scopes in Q/D mounts
fitted case
I have never hunted with the gun. It has a certain "cool factor" at the range, and, with the nickel plated receiver, is a very attractive gun. I suspect that the combination gun might be more useful in Europe than in the states where small game and big game seasons do not overlap as much.
Peter.

Monsieur Howa

The double rifle barrel set is of great reassurance when involved in driven hunting - for deer or wild boar. A swift second shot at no more than a hundred metres can make the difference between game on the ground - or running on wounded.

For the rest of the time, I can almost guarantee that the Valmet would have worn the shotgun over rifle option.

The combination has reached ascendency in Europe (specifically Germany) where the norm is to take a morning amble around your grounds, taking anything from a Pheasant/Pigeon - through Fox /Rabbit or Hare on up to Roe or Wild Boar.

For woodland stalking the iron sights are perfectly suited to swift and accurate shooting to a hundred metres. Above that range, or when waiting in a high seat - it is usual to slip on a scope.

Not that common in the UK - the combi is an ideal option where you have shooting permission for birds and furred game.

A major benefit of the model you mention, is the ability to alter the regulation of the barrels to coincide poi.

Rgds Ian (Now a happy Drilling owner!)

Hi Howa,

I can verify that the Finnclassic is essentially the same as the Valmet 412S system was.
What happened was that Valmet ceased production at the Tourula factory in Jyvaskyla, Finland, and moved the production to Italy under the name of Tikka.
Subsequently, Sako (who owns the Tikka brand; in the background there are also mergers of the Finnish gun industry; and Beretta's acquisition of Sako) ceased production and sold the concept to another company who then continued the production of the same under the Finnclassic label. I cannot recollect the name of the company behind, I'm afraid.

Thus, the Finnclassic is the same as the Valmet/Tikka 412S/512S.

Note: use of the Valmet/Tikka barrels in the Finnclassic may require fitting by a gunsmith!
Note: the old Valmet 412 barrels without the "S" logo do NOT fit directly, they ALWAYS have to fitted by a gunsmith!

About the caliber: the old German 8mms are very potent calibers, indeed.
The biggest problem with the caliber in general is that it is not very flat shooting, but apart from this I'd tend to agree with Boddington's analysis that it is very close to the .30-06. However, the bullet diameter is .323 so it's closer to a .338, perhaps.
Being a flanged case it works well in a break-open gun.

If you further consider a combo (o/u shotgun/rifled barrel), consider the use if the gun. In my experience the game shot with such a combination tends to be small game maybe to size of up to roe deer, and the rifle need not be of large caliber.
That said, if you use a slug in the shotgun barrel, you'll be able to use it up to fairly large game, and then you should of course have a rifle barrel that is not unnecessarily small. I wouldn't choose a, say, .223 as rifle barrel, but I also would be reluctant to go over 8mm. Most likely I'd look at 6,5mm, 7mm, .30, or 8mm caliber in a combo. I have actually thought about it and my own choice would likely be a 7mm (7x57R or 7X65R).
In a double rifle, though, the 8mm would be a choice par excellence, unless you mainly hunt very small game and/or long ranges (above 200yds).

My current "to go" rifle is in caliber 8,2x53R which uses the same 8mm "S" bullet of the 8x57JRS. I use it up to and including elk, and the Sako load for the 8,2x53R is hotter than that of the 8x57JRS.
With these calibers the only limitations in game size will be possible legal requirements; the calibers will certainly be up to the task.

Gentlemen, thank you for your answers. The problem is that I would very much like a 12 over .243, as this is a combination I might actually use, rather than just look at. However I already have two .243's and dont fancy getting rid of either

I bought a .308 sometime back to go boar shooting in france only to find that it is an illegal calibre.. So what I am trying to do is get a weapon that would suffice for the boar shooting in france, but not with a calibre so big that the police would allow it on my ticket, but stipulate for overseas use only.
Sorry to bore you with this pete, but these are the kind of hoops we jump through over here. How are you finding the new toy Ian. I have gone off the Merkel since I found out the markup was nigh on a grand.

Having given it a bit more thought I would agree with you schauckis that 7x65 would probably be better.
Thanks again gents.

Grant

quote:

Thus, the Finnclassic is the same as the Valmet/Tikka 412S/512S.

You left out one important thing... The quality of the steel in the 412's is much better then what's in the later 512's.

Those hunters that i've talked to on the net that really use there guns, tell me what i always suspected... The 412's are better guns than the 512's...

I'm of the opinion that ALL 412/512 bbls should be checked by someone who knows the "proper" fit of these bbls BEFORE they are used on a different action than that origionally came with. Same with new bbls., they should be "fit" to the action EVEN if they "seem" to go right on.

DM

quote:

About the caliber: the old German 8mms are very potent calibers, indeed.
The biggest problem with the caliber in general is that it is not very flat shooting, but apart from this I'd tend to agree with Boddington's analysis that it is very close to the .30-06. However, the bullet diameter is .323 so it's closer to a .338, perhaps.
Being a flanged case it works well in a break-open gun.

As for the 8x57jrs: I hunt with a Krieghoff drilling in that caliber... I handload 200 Nosler Partitions in it at 2,550fps and it's done very well for me on everything from moose on down. I do "not" consider it to be a good choise for brown bear, but it has been an excelent choise for everything else in NA.

I made my 20th one shot kill with it on big game last fall when i took a nice witetail buck at about 150 yards. And the 21st when i harvested a very nice doe with a bad front shoulder at about 125 yards.

The longest shot i've made with it was a coyote at close to 300 yards, another one shot kill.

DM

A double in 8x57JSR is perhaps the essence of driven hunts for boar, some like my self prefer the 9,3x74R but that is just me and because I am a half ass shot.

For instance should I go again to day, a Merkel 141 or 140 in 8x57JSR would be my tool of choice.


The 7x65R is not a nice round, it´s relativly hard recoiling for no gain what so ever, most shots with a combo or double are within 120 meters, a 7/8x57R/JSR are more than enough gun.

Should you fall towards the 7x57R then it´s good to remember that in 7 mm there are lighter bullets to have should one want that.

For me the 7 mm accubond has worked great and I se no reason to change it, I used to use Hornady IB RB 175 grains but I found them to be to heavy.

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by howa243:
Gentlemen, thank you for your answers. The problem is that I would very much like a 12 over .243, as this is a combination I might actually use, rather than just look at. However I already have two .243's and dont fancy getting rid of either

I bought a .308 sometime back to go boar shooting in france only to find that it is an illegal calibre.. So what I am trying to do is get a weapon that would suffice for the boar shooting in france, but not with a calibre so big that the police would allow it on my ticket, but stipulate for overseas use only.
Sorry to bore you with this pete, but these are the kind of hoops we jump through over here. How are you finding the new toy Ian. I have gone off the Merkel since I found out the markup was nigh on a grand.

Having given it a bit more thought I would agree with you schauckis that 7x65 would probably be better.
Thanks again gents.

Grant

quote:

You left out one important thing... The quality of the steel in the 412's is much better then what's in the later 512's.

Those hunters that i've talked to on the net that really use there guns, tell me what i always suspected... The 412's are better guns than the 512's...

I'm of the opinion that ALL 412/512 bbls should be checked by someone who knows the "proper" fit of these bbls BEFORE they are used on a different action than that origionally came with. Same with new bbls., they should be "fit" to the action EVEN if they "seem" to go right on.

True on all accounts.

I have no personal experience of the Valmet/Tikka/Finnclassic, but the statement about the quality seems quite universal.
Having handled the Valmet shotguns I must say they are very robust, indeed. And at that time "steel was still steel"!