Perhaps the title is a little provocative, but there’s serious intent in my post.

The original purpose of a drilling was to have a gun capable of taking a mixed bag of game when a hunter didn’t know what targets he may be confronted with. I guess it also was the case that a hunter could own one firearm and be suitably equipped for various specialized hunts e.g. a deer drive one week and a duck hunt the next.

How common are mixed bag hunts nowadays? Moreover, every drilling I’ve seen has a scope mounted on it, often a rather large one. I would think this makes the shotgun barrels less than useful for any kind of quick wing shooting. So one is left with a scoped single shot rifle with two shot barrels used for..….what???

I happen to like looking at nice drillings and admire them quite a bit. I’m offering this post in hope of getting a bit of education and I’d love to hear a case made carrying a drilling in today’s hunting environment, for anywhere in the world.

So let’s hear it

- stu

That's exactly what I use my BBF for. Mixed bag hunting. Where I usually go, I have the farmers permission to hunt deer, ducks (in season), rabbits, hares, etc. So it suits me just fine to be able to choose between a shotgun BBL or a rifle BBL, by simply squeezing a different trigger. Instant choice between 7x57R or 12g.
As for the scope, mine wears a Leupold Euro 30 3-9x50 with a German #4 reticle, in Blaser saddle mounts. Takes about 20 seconds to either fit or remove, with no loss of zero. I also use a Docter optics red dot reflex sight, works fine on deer out to 150m or so, and doesn't interfere with wingshooting.
Bird shooting is the only time I really wish it had another shot BBL.
Maybe one day I'll get the cash together to get a Drilling with steel shot proofed BBLs, until then I'll just have to make do.

Cheers, Dave.

Here in California, a drilling is quite useful. When I hunted with one, I was hunting areas where I could shoot quail and big game (either bear or pig) together. Mine did not have a scope, but if it did, I would have carried it with the scope detached, and put the scope on if I had time and for shots at over about 100 yards. It was nice to have the instant option; lighter than carrying a shotgun and large-bore handgun and a lot easier than carrying a shotgun and a rifle. In fact, I only sold mine because I wanted to get away from external hammers, and find something with a scope. If I can get the $$$$ ahead, I will buy another.

Dave

Tomorrow morning I'll go hunting with two friends. I'll bring my Sauer drilling 12/6,5x57R, as fox, hare, roe and deer are hunted. Deer may only be shot with bullet here, but for the other species shots are more suitable.

For this hunt the drilling is ideal: you have always the right gun in your hands.

Regards,

Fritz

I have many rifles, some are single shots, some bolt, lever, and I once owned a double rifle.

There seem to be two predominate drilling types in Europe.

Type one is the most common a Single rifle barrel usually a 222 or something similar and two shotgun tubes. For fox, capercallie, and that type of thing.

The second type is the driven hunt gun one or two barrels of 9.3x74R or 8x57JR or 30 Blaser and a shotgun barrel with a slug in it for wildboar.

I know some guys that have a D99 set up with two sets of barrels. That would be perfection!

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
---There seem to be two predominate drilling types in Europe.

Type one is the most common a Single rifle barrel usually a 222 or something similar and two shotgun tubes. For fox, capercallie, and that type of thing.

The second type is the driven hunt gun one or two barrels of 9.3x74R or 8x57JR or 30 Blaser and a shotgun barrel with a slug in it for wildboar.
---

That may perhaps be said about continental hunting, but it is not quite representative for Scandinavia. Albeit many hunters use .222Rem or .22 Savage HP shotgun drillings for birds and small game, the common drilling here is a standard 12/12/7x57R - 9 out of 10 are such ones. Most drilling here are Merkels from the GDR gun maker town Suhl, which were imported to quite resonable prices at the communist era.

Regards

fritz

Fritz I agree with you,

95% of the drillings in Germany have riflebarrels min. 6,5mm because thats the minimum caliber for big game. A drilling with less we call "Rehwilddrilling" because cau only can hunt roe deer with this caliber.

What the????

I hunted with one for several years in Montana and you hit the nail on the head "mixed bag". Most people out here don't hunt a mixed bag due to the fact that they don't have a combo-gun. Lot's of people see huge whitetails while phesant hunting or grouse while deer hunting. A drilling takes care of all that and looks good too!

My problem was with long range. I had a double rifle drilling and a "regular" drilling, both in 16g and 9x57R. The regular drilling had a 6x Pecar on top and still couldn't group tight enough for long shots at deer, antelope and elk. Longer range shots are common in the mountains and plains of Montana and I don't want to wound anything if at all possible...so I went back to a bolt action and don't regret it.

Still, with double rifle drilling I took elk, deer, antlope, pheasant, sharpies and mountain grouse. Great gun, lots of fun to hunt with.

quote:

Originally posted by mt Al:
---My problem was with long range. I had a double rifle drilling and a "regular" drilling, both in 16g and 9x57R. The regular drilling had a 6x Pecar on top and still couldn't group tight enough for long shots at deer, antelope and elk.---

Did you let the barrel get cold before between firing the shots? Most drillings and superposed combo - with some excellent execeptions - guns let the shots climb at the target, if you fire them as fast as with a bolt rifle, due to temperature changes in the barrels. If you fire the drilling for a group, and don't wait for the barrel to get cold again, you mostly certainly will see a vertical stringing. Let the barrel cold for ten minutes, and you'll get quite nice groups.

For a drilling, the first shot always counts. If the first shots always hit the right spot, the gun is accurate enough.

If you already observed this, you was unlucky and had a bad shooter. With my own drilling, I can take shots @200 yds. I know that there are a lot of other drillings capable of that.

Regards

Fritz

My '84 vintage Merkel in 12-12x9.3x74R will consistently put three shots with the RWS factory 286 bullet, the 270 Speer or the 286 NP into .6 with full power loads; this is using a Leupy 4x scope and shooring as fast as I can reload. It does this in hot or cold weather and holds it's zero with boring regularity. I have custom "ghost ring" and post irons with a q-rib that takes Ruger rings, it just plain WORKS.

If, I were rich, I would own dozens of fine Germanic combo guns, DOZENS, SCORES as they are really useful here in B.C. In fact, I wish I had one built on a 1930's quality Westley-Richards hinged "droplock" with dollshead and fitted spare locks and pins, this in 20-20x7-65R, with a popup peep, front blade and the Kreighoff type scope mounts....WTF, go big or go home!

quote:

The original purpose of a drilling was to have a gun capable of taking a mixed bag of game when a hunter didn’t know what targets he may be confronted with. I guess it also was the case that a hunter could own one firearm and be suitably equipped for various specialized hunts e.g. a deer drive one week and a duck hunt the next.

When I lived in Bavaria in the 1950's, combination guns were often used for drive hunts. The hunters would surrouned a large area consisting of forest and meadowland, facing toward the center of the circle. On command, the group started walking slowly toward the center of the circle. If any game that was in season ran (or flew!!) out of the circle past the hunters, the closest hunter was permitted to turn and fire at the animal (or bird), shooting 180 degrees AWAY from the constricting circle of hunters. A Drilling (or even Vierling) made it possible to shoot Hasse, Rehbock, Hirsch, Wildschwein, pheasants, etc. with just the one gun during such hunts. During these drive hunts, the scope sights were usually not mounted, but the hunter had the scope in a leather carrying case handy for instant mounting if needed.

Bolt actions with scope sights were the primary weapon for shooting big game from the Hochsitz, but single-shot or double rifles were often used for this kind of hunting also.....

Fritz and Kutenay,

Yes, I was aware of the potential for vertical strining of shots. I think the biggest problem with accuracy was me. The next biggest was that the gun never felt "tight". I had it glass bedded and re-pinned and had claw mounts put on it (didn't have them originally). Even after all this it didn't feel right, I don't think the claw mounts were done properly, had to send it back once and wasn't confident in it. It was a beautiful Franz Kettner 16x16 over the 9x57r. Brass was 8x57 necked up with a 35 Whelen expander. Bullets were Hawk 250 grain.

I shot almost all of my game with the double rifle drilling, an awesome Ed Kettner back action hammer gun (nothing looks better than a back action hammer gun, in my opinion). I never properly regulated it, didn't have time with kids/wife/job/etc. Should have sent it off to someone to have it done properly. $$$

Kutenay, I agree completely. I'd have a dozen drillings if I could afford it, especially one like yours, 12x12x9.3x74R, which I think is the ultimate, and a double rifle in 9.3x74R over 20 guage. They're wonderful, useful guns. Hope to buy more in the future.

I think one of Blaser's upside down 9.3x74R/9.3x74R/20 Gauge drillings in luxus model with a beavertail forend will be my present to myself when I next get promoted.

I will have a Schmidt and Bender 3-12x56 Illumminated reticle.

Can you imagine a better hog gun, 2 9.3s and a 20 gauge Brenekke slug?

Eventually I will get a second set of barrels in either 222/20/20 or 308/20/20.

Can't imagine a better choice (unless it was a back action hammer gun)! I'm still trying to pay off my daughter's horse, then perhaps back to drillings.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
I think one of Blaser's upside down 9.3x74R/9.3x74R/20 Gauge drillings in luxus model with a beavertail forend will be my present to myself when I next get promoted.
---

De gustubus non est disputandum - taste shouldn't be discussed. However, I'm a bit astonished as often as I read enthusiastic comments about this construction.

When this model came some years ago, I seriously planned to get one as I read all positive writings about it in the magazines and pamplets. But eventually I was at the gun monger's, and was deeply disappointed. Yoy cannot shoot that gun without a scope. The comb is so high, that your eye is some 1½ inch over the upper barrel. Even if the irons sights are high, you cannot use the for sighting. As a shotgun, that drilling is nearly worthless IMHO.

Technically it is an interesting and intelligent construction. But I would like to put a shotgun rib on the top barrel, get classic automatic rear sight installed and get a new stock with conventional shotgun measures. So improved, I think this wouls be a very fine drilling.

And, well, I consider a drilling a shotgun with one or two rifle barrels. blaser has another opinion, and have build a rifle for scope with a shotgun barrel supplied - for slugs?

My own choice after having seen the Blaser, was a Sauer 3000. I haven't looked back yet.

Friendly regards,

Fritz

I quote this from an artricle by David J. Moses,found at www.gunshop.com some time ago:

"The Drilling started out as a side-by-side shotgun with an under-slung auxiliary rifle barrel, the optimal gun for the woods-walker, forester and gamekeeper. Typically set up in 16 gauge, the pre-World war II Drilling was very popular in 7x57R, 6.5x57R and 8x57IR and was often without a scope. In contrast to years past, the modern Drilling is used today as a rifle with auxiliary shotgun tubes. This change in tactics gives us Drillings with high "pig back" combs for scope shooting, more powerful main calibers such as 7x65R, .30-06 and 9.3x74R and with an almost universal changeover to 12 gauge. Additionally, the right shotgun tube often gets a full-length barrel insert in 5.6x50R, .223 Remington or .22 Savage Hi-Power, all just right for roe, fox and badger. Topped with a big 3-12x56 scope using either claw or swing mounts, you now have a heavy gun far removed from the delightful seven-pounds Drillings of pre-war innocence."

That's right.
Some additions:
Drillings were already popular in pre-WW I times, mostly with outside hammers, BP calibers such as the 11.15x60R and later the 9.3x72R.
Barrel length originally was up to the full 28 inches, and has decreased over time. Modern Drillings have down to 22 inch barrels, to compensate for the additional weight of scope and insert arrel, and because it's not used as a shotgun anymore.
Seven lbs for the old-type Drilling seems a bit light for me, I'd assume ca. 8 lbs. Still lighter and handier than modern guns with scope and insert barrel, calculate 9-10 lbs.
In recent times, 20/76 shotgun barrels appear to become popular.

I'd like to have an "old-type" Drlling for mixed-bag hunts. I have no use and love for the modern Drilling - but that also depends on anybodys needs and hunting situation.

Fuhrmann

Well in the area of MT where I live they make more sense than any thing.I drive 18 miles on a backroad to the ranch I work on and at anytime I can see fur or feather crossing the road and I am prepared for either.I took the scope of mine and will never put it back on.Mine is just an old Savage 24v but it gets the job done.w/regards

I have a 1932 Krieghoff drilling in a 16ga SXS over a 8X57JR that has been gathering dust in my safe for several years. Last fall I dusted it off and took it quail hunting in the midwest. I shot a two day limit of quail (in 2 days), 2 possum, 1 skunk, 1 racoon, and 1 bobcat. What a "blast" to beable to hunt game at long, as well as short distance as the opportunity presents its self. I'll never go another season without hunting with it whenever I can (and where legal). I don't have a scope mount on mine and don't plan on using one in the future. At 7.25 pounds, it is comfortable to shoot and very accurate to my (eye) range limits of 150 yards. I'm currently using 43.0gr of AA2520 powder behind a 200gr. (resized to .318) Speer bullet. Regards - Mags

One of my friends recently emmigrated to the States from Sweden. He has several drillings, several with two rifle and two shotgun barrels. Since he could only own ten guns, it was the only way he could have all those different cartridges to reload and play with.

quote:

Originally posted by Black Fly:
---several [drillings] with two rifle and two shotgun barrels.---

Two barrels: a Zwilling (seldom)
Three barrels: a Drilling
Four barrels: a Vierling (Say "feerling")
Double barrel shotgun with a .22 calibre barrel in the rib: a Waldläufer.

Fritz

and an shotgun and a riflebarrel with an 22 caliber barrel is a "Büchsflintenwaldläufer"
which is the rarest combo you can find.

Burkhard

quote:

Originally posted by Burkhard:
and an shotgun and a riflebarrel with an 22 caliber barrel is a "Büchsflintenwaldläufer"
which is the rarest combo you can find.

Burkhard

I would by no means disagree to go hunting a such one - 16/8x57IRS/.22Hornet.

Krieghoff builds a fine bockdrilling in such combinations too - not bad at all.

Fritz

On impulse I bought an I Meffert drilling in 16/16/8x57JR made in the '20's. It sat around until one day when I decided to shoot it finally. I took it to the skeet range and shot a 17. That ain't bad for F/F 16 ga. I subsequently found it to be an ideal gun to take walking.
I've had several offer from collectors but so far I'll keep it. It's not fancy-just a workman like gun.

Although I have never owned one I always thought that they would be the perfect coyote rifle when calling in fairly heavy, but still somewhat open timber. The use of 4 buckshot or T-sized "HeviShot" (the Dead Coyote loads) in the shotgun combined with a varmint class rifle (223 or so) caliber would be perfect to deal with coyotes that came in very close to those that tended to circle around at distances of 75 to 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
I think one of Blaser's upside down 9.3x74R/9.3x74R/20 Gauge drillings in luxus model with a beavertail forend will be my present to myself when I next get promoted.

I will have a Schmidt and Bender 3-12x56 Illumminated reticle.

Can you imagine a better hog gun, 2 9.3s and a 20 gauge Brenekke slug?

Eventually I will get a second set of barrels in either 222/20/20 or 308/20/20.

Dude, that´s a gun !!

D99

I agree that will be a great hog gun and frankly any of the combinations you mention sound excellent.

I don't really like the Blaser... I own an love a R93 in 300wsm, but their drilling seems off to me. It must be made for driven boar hunts, not wingshoting. In my mind, the drilling is foremost a gun for a mixed bag, as mentioned. I use mine (Merkel K96 lux in 20 and 6.5x57r) predominately while hunting roe deer, and picking off the occasional caper, duck, fox and so on as a side while hunting in the woods of Norway. Or while hunting mountain grouse. Great fun to pick them off with the rifle barrel! I hunt with the scope off, easily available in a pouch. I shoot most of the roe at under 80 yards, and the iron sights are fast and sifficient. If the scope is needed it does not take many seconds to mount it. The reason for the big scopes is that twilight and night hunting is legal, so you need big tubes to gather those last rays of light. I used to hunt with a drilling with 12 calibre shotgun barrels, but I find the balance to be much better in my 20.

well I have a franz sodia ferlach 20gaX20gaX222rem and it was built for turkey hunting in PA. you will have turkeys at your feet or you might have turkeys at 100yrds this gun is perfect for that

In France it is not uncommon when out bird shooting to have a wild boar or a roe deer come into play. Some people keep some saboted slug cartridges or Brenneke cartridges in their pockets for just that when carrying a shotgun. But the drilling is a better option, even if a little heavy for a full day in the field. I think the 8X57JRS is a good choice for the rifle barrel.

While drillings are mostly a European thing, I have found them to be very useful in the US in Texas, Montana, and Idaho.
My wife has had a Sauer 12x12x30-06 with a 4x Kahles in claw mounts for several years.
She used it on bear/grouse hunts in Montana, and for deer, wild pigs, ducks, doves, quail, squirrel, and rabbits in TX.
I have used her drilling in Idaho on black bear/grouse hunts and in tex for ducks, dove, quail, rabbits, and squirrel.
I recently bought me a drilling, just like hers [not scoped] in 12x12x30-06.
The first weekend i hunted with it I took 3 turkeys and 2 wild pigs.
Soon I will have it scoped.
I have found the drilling to be an excellent hunting gun.

The Sauer is built on a thin light weight frame. It handles like a fine 20 guage quail gun even though it is 12X12X30-06.
It is lighter and handles better than my 12 ga Browning Citori.

It is already one of my favorite hunting guns.
It IS my wifes favorite hunting gun.

A few yrears back I went on a pack trip into the Adirondacks for whitetail and bear. I brought along a shotgun in case I filled my tags, figured I might try some grouse.

The first couple of days I was hunting with a .308 BLR, I couldn't find a legal deer to shoot but I kept flushing grouse. The last day I decided to take some grouse home so I went out with my Ithaca 20ga. No grouse but I found the deer.

When I got home I started looking for a drilling. I found a lovely 1939 Nimrod 16X16 over 8x57, no scope. I can put the rifle into 3" @100yds with S&B ammo and the iron sights.

I'll be ready next time.

What use is a drilling.
Read my hunt report.
I shot one pig on Sat with the rifle bbl and on Sunday I shot 3 turkeys at @630PM and a hog at @ 720 PM, sitting in the same spot.

I found this old beauty on the web:


It is an old Sempert Krieghoff - 16/16/10.3 x 65R hammer drilling. It shoild be from the beginning of the 20th century - about hundred years old.

Fritz

Lovely piece Fritz, have you hunted with it yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
Lovely piece Fritz, have you hunted with it yet?

I wish I had. But it is not mine, and it will or can sadly enough not be mine. The picture is posted on a sales site in Sweden. I linked it here just because of it beauty.

Fritz

Seems like a good idea to me. Hunting Wyoming for antelope I'd always get into a good covey of Huns or B-52s(sage grouse) not to mention pheasants and just have a T/C handgun or revolver. When switching to a shotgun, a good-sized antelope buck would put in an appearance. A 16x16x257 Roberts or .25-06 would be great.

Dunno about 257 cal, but you could always get a 6.5 x 57R, with 16g or 12g BBLs. Or, some combos are available in 243.

Just a thought.

ther is a couple of simple wildcat cartridges for a drilling

1. you have a 308, but want a rimmed round, no problem justt form 7x57R rounds and trim them down, get a gunsmith to alter the drilling for the rimmed case and you have a great edition that still can fir 308 rounds.

2. 30-06, take a 7x65 R case,do the same, and with the 270 wcf aswell.

3. the 243 wcf. the 7x57 basis necked down ans so on.

My choice would be a either 7, 8mm Rimmed or a 9,3x74R in the rifle, shotgun 12,or 20 . scope 1,5-6x and 3-12x56 for night duty.

A friend of mine has just had his Baikal combo gun in 12g / 308 rechambered to take the 307 Win cartridge, to get around the problems he was having with the rimless extractor.
Now I suppose the trick will be to find 307 brass....

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Now I suppose the trick will be to find 307 brass....

Maybe not. Huntington's has Win. made .307 Win. brass listed for $39.98 per 100........