I am about to start load development for my 8X57JR (.318 Bore) Sauer Drilling.
I have come up with 47 grains of IMR 4350 and 200 Grain Woodleigh. Anyone familiar with 8X57JR please respond.
Thanks,
Lawdog

Lawdog, I have the load when I bought my Drilling that came with a bunch of loaded rounds that shoot good through mine so I have not reloaded for it yet. The load I received to work up is:

47 grains RWS Powder 903 pushing the 196 grain RWS Roundnose Bullet

Good luck, you might want to PM Gerry from Frankfurt, he may have some additional info, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

I don't have a drilling but do have a SxS that is 8x57jrs. I have had good luck with 48grs of IMR 4350 with a 200gr Barnes bullet. It consistently shoots 1" groups and that is a COMBINED group of L & R barrel. I have never seen a better shooting SxS,much less had the good fortune to own it. My other load is 42grs of IMR 4064 behind a 200gr Barnes. Have never tried Woodleigh's. When working up loads for this rifle I used 180gr Barnes X,170gr Hornady Interlock,175gr Sierra Spitzer and 200 gr A-Frame and 200 gr Barnes Rnd Nose. The 200gr Barnes shot best. I tried only 2 powders IMR 4064 and IMR 4350. My more or less standard powder is IMR 4350 for most everything. Norma brass and Federal 210 primers. I more or less just use Book loads and don't really experiment much, I generally never even use Max loads. For these I just use regular 8x57 data and stay well below max.

The mythical "1" group! The builder that regulated that SXS must have had an angel on his shoulder. What make is it? I never heard of a SXS regulated to that degree. Then to have come upon the load to take advantage of the gun's potential is really something. My drilling shoots Norma factory loads very well, but they are very hard (impossible lately) to find. Thanks for your input and let me know when your SXS is on the block.

quote:

Originally posted by Dom:
Lawdog, I have the load when I bought my Drilling that came with a bunch of loaded rounds that shoot good through mine so I have not reloaded for it yet. The load I received to work up is:

47 grains RWS Powder 903 pushing the 196 grain RWS Roundnose Bullet

Good luck, you might want to PM Gerry from Frankfurt, he may have some additional info, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

Is your Drilling a 8X57JR? Thanks for your input.

Please take the following with the proverbial "grain of salt" - my 8x57JR combo gun may be very different from your 8x57JR combo gun.

The load mine likes best so far is 49 grains of H4350 behind a 200 grain Woodleigh .318" bullet in RWS cases using CCI LR primers. Velocity is in the high 2200s. Case expansion is nil and extraction could basically be done using gravity alone. One note: my combo's 8x57JR chamber is tight enough in the neck that RWS cases require neck reaming even with .318" bullets, beware. 50 grains went just over 2300 fps but accuracy wasn't as good and the additional few fps aren't going to buy any increase in range or power. Always keep to the light side with these thin barrels....

I've had good luck with 44gr RL 15 and CCI LR Primers behind 196gr Norma bullets or my dwindling supply of DKT 196gr RN bullets. I have a few 180gr DKT and load them with 45gr RL 15.

These have been pretty good in six different 8X57JR guns. I used the same 44 gr loads in an 8X57JRS drilling with 200gr Nosler PTs.

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog:
Is your Drilling a 8X57JR? Thanks for your input.

Yes, .318 Bore, Sauer & Sohn Drilling.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
Lawdog,
Sorry you don't believe in myths,you don't know what you are missing . But in this case it isn't one. The rifle is a Merkel 141 in 8x57jrs. It has single trigger and ejectors and does NOT have adjustable barrels. The stock is the traditional european one. Price was $4000 new from Merkel. It has a Leupold VariX-III 1.5x5 in MAK swingoff mount. I have made numerous posts and shown pictures on this forum while looking for data to load for it as it did not come with any information or target from Merkel. Quite frankly I don't give a happy shit whether you believe it or not and at 75 years of age I'm not about to start lying about the accuracy of a rifle on some forum now. I KNOW it is an unusual rifle and I'm quite happy to have it.

I think you misunderstood my reply. I am not doubting your 1" group just that I have never seen it happen out of 2 barrels. I am no expert by any means and don't hold myself out as one. Perhaps I used the wrong terminology in mythical. Should have said "much sought after". Again no intent to convey doubt as to your veracity.

Thanks everyone for your input. I have just what I need to get started. AR has once again proven a great source of information.

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog:
I am about to start load development for my 8X57JR (.318 Bore) Sauer Drilling.
I have come up with 47 grains of IMR 4350 and 200 Grain Woodleigh. Anyone familiar with 8X57JR please respond.
Thanks,
Lawdog

You might try some of the Buffalo Arms 318 bullets. They have a line of them, going down to 150 grain. I like the lighter bullets for deer sized game. You can push them pretty fast without raising the presures in these old drillings. I also think the slower twist in many of the old .318 barrels favors the lighter (shorter) bullets.

Interesting point.

I have found the small supply of the 180gr DKT bullets I got a long time ago do shoot very tight groups.

DKT made them by mistake and sent them to me as 196 gr bullets. When I called the owner he gave me a ration of schidt, saying that I didn't know anything about guns or reloading; the bullets were 196gr! I bet him one of my bullets to a box of his he was full of it and sent him one. He sent it back with a box of 196gr bullets with no explanation. It seems that he farmed out some of these, and his sub-maker screwed up, I learned later.

I kept the two boxes of 180gr, as they shot better than the 196gr bullets. The .321 diameter 170gr Rem 32Spl bullets we used a long time ago, when we couldn't get .318 all shot tight groups with no pressure problems.

I shot a few of Buffalo's bullets and found them excellent.

Interesting. The .318 bullets in my Sauer fit the cases very tightly. I would hesitate to run any .321s through it. It shoots very well with the 196gr. Woodleighs in the Norma factory load. 100 yard, .75" (center to center) 3 shot group when I checked the zero before last deer season. I can't ask more than that out of a 100 year old piece. So I think I'll stick with the same bullet in my reloads. If I could find more factory Normas I don't think I'd even fool with reloading. I do find that it is not a "sudden killer" on deer though. I've killed 5 bucks and a doe in the last 3 years, all but one went 50 yards or so before expiring. The Woodleighs just punch an 8mm hole all the way through. It does a lot of damage in the "boiler room" and leaves a good blood trail.

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog:
Interesting. The .318 bullets in my Sauer fit the cases very tightly. I would hesitate to run any .321s through it. It shoots very well with the 196gr. Woodleighs in the Norma factory load. 100 yard, .75" (center to center) 3 shot group when I checked the zero before last deer season. I can't ask more than that out of a 100 year old piece. So I think I'll stick with the same bullet in my reloads. If I could find more factory Normas I don't think I'd even fool with reloading. I do find that it is not a "sudden killer" on deer though. I've killed 5 bucks and a doe in the last 3 years, all but one went 50 yards or so before expiring. The Woodleighs just punch an 8mm hole all the way through. It does a lot of damage in the "boiler room" and leaves a good blood trail.

That's why I like the lighter bullets, and lighter constructed bullets, if you can find them. Because of the lower velocities, (the old calibers) you need an easily expanding bullet to expend more of its energy inside the deer. I use hollow point 100 gr bullets in my 6.5X58R and 150 gr 318 bullets in the 318 bores. I always liked the 170 gr round nose Hornady interlock bullets in the "S" bore. I had a lot of trouble finding an expanding light construcetd 9.3 bullet. Seems they're all made for higher velocity rounds. So I made a swaging die to upset 180 grain Speer 35 Remington bullets up to .365. They work great on deer and hogs.
Placement is another way to get them anchored. If you hit a deer 4-6" below the point of the shoulder, they will always drop in their tracks with very little meat damage.

Lawdog,

All but one "J" bore gun I've owned slugged to .320-.321. There are some tighter bores around, however. The exception I owned slugged to .319.

The .321 170gr bullets were our only choice for years in the late 1950s to the 1970s. They worked quite well, as the bullet sizes itself at first movement and before pressures rise. I know this has been debated for years, but I've found P.O. Ackley was spot on...so far.

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Lawdog,

All but one "J" bore gun I've owned slugged to .320-.321. There are some tighter bores around, however. The exception I owned slugged to .319.

The .321 170gr bullets were our only choice for years in the late 1950s to the 1970s. They worked quite well, as the bullet sizes itself at first movement and before pressures rise. I know this has been debated for years, but I've found P.O. Ackley was spot on...so far.

It's amazing how they (the so called experts) are still draging their butts, coming to that conclusion. PO was a genius, and often his views conflicted with the traditional thinking. I can't think of a time I've found him to be wrong, other than his building up his "improved" chamberings to beyond what I think most of them deserved. Some of his loads also won't fit in the case . But, on everything else, you can take his arguments to the bank. Especially in things like the importance of headspace (for safety) or lack of importance.

Interesting I'll pull out Ackley's book again. Been a while since I looked at it.

quote:

That's why I like the lighter bullets, and lighter constructed bullets, if you can find them. Because of the lower velocities, (the old calibers) you need an easily expanding bullet to expend more of its energy inside the deer. I use hollow point 100 gr bullets in my 6.5X58R and 150 gr 318 bullets in the 318 bores. I always liked the 170 gr round nose Hornady interlock bullets in the "S" bore.

I use 200NP's in my 8x57jrs, and they "always" expand well, but still give
deep penetration. I can use the 200NP's on everything i hunt from moose and bear on down to smaller deer and havolina and know they will expand well doing plenty of damage inside the animal...

Using a bullet that will work for everything, keeps me from having to work up several loads with different bullets, and learn where they all hit at different ranges...

If my drilling was an jr, instead of an jrs, for big game hunting, i'd draw down 200np's to .318" and use them anyway... Then i'd be ready for any animal i'd ever hunt, and be able to take it cleanly at any angle presented to me.

DM

quote:

Originally posted by DM:

quote:

That's why I like the lighter bullets, and lighter constructed bullets, if you can find them. Because of the lower velocities, (the old calibers) you need an easily expanding bullet to expend more of its energy inside the deer. I use hollow point 100 gr bullets in my 6.5X58R and 150 gr 318 bullets in the 318 bores. I always liked the 170 gr round nose Hornady interlock bullets in the "S" bore.

I use 200NP's in my 8x57jrs, and they "always" expand well, but still give
deep penetration. I can use the 200NP's on everything i hunt from moose and bear on down to smaller deer and havolina and know they will expand well doing plenty of damage inside the animal...

Using a bullet that will work for everything, keeps me from having to work up several loads with different bullets, and learn where they all hit at different ranges...

If my drilling was an jr, instead of an jrs, for big game hunting, i'd draw down 200np's to .318" and use them anyway... Then i'd be ready for any animal i'd ever hunt, and be able to take it cleanly at any angle presented to me.

DM

One load for everything is a good approach. And you should always use what you have confidence in. That said, I've had little to no expansion from the heavier bullets in lighter game. I shot a moose in AK with the 170 interlock in my old Krieghoff JRS, quartering away. Broke a rib going in, went through the vitals & broke a shoulder going out. I figured that was plenty of penetration. I've never found a drilling bullet in an animal, except a 6.5X58R(Sauer) 100 gr hollow point (speer) that I shot a 300#+ hog with. It exploded the heart & broke a front leg before lodging under the skin, low on the opposite front quarter.
I guess I am a reloading buff who has reloaded since the early 60's, because I can tailor the load to the game or the task. The only problem with a "do everything" load, IME, is that it is usually lacking in some areas.
But, that's just my dos centavos. Use what works for you

I also have been reloading since the 60's, (i also was a ammo mfg., and bullet mfg. from the 70's on) and all i can say is, you should give the 200NP a try... I've shot everything from coyotes to moose with it, and it always works perfectly for me... ("perfectly", meaning i get some expansion in small animals, and good penetration in big animals)

DM

Because of the special considerations of loading for combination guns, I have always been in favor of a "one size fits all" approach to loading for them. I like to find the load the gun likes best and stay with it.


Besides...I'm lazy...

quote:

Originally posted by luv2safari:
Because of the special considerations of loading for combination guns, I have always been in favor of a "one size fits all" approach to loading for them. I like to find the load the gun likes best and stay with it.


Besides...I'm lazy...

Aha, now we have it . DM, I like the NP bullets and have used them a lot. The design does allow some expansion on most decent size animals. I just like tailoring a load to the specific game I'm hunting. It's all part of the fun, IMO. "Luv" is with you on this & I'm not saying you're wrong; just that I do it & look at it differently. I also try to come up with loads thath shoot to the same POI just to keep it a little simpler.
Heck, it doesn't bother me at all that I have 5 (count em) different 8mm cartridges, I load for and so far haven't grabbed the wrong ammo yet

An original load I was able to "regulate" my 1932, 8X57JR Drilling was: 39.5gr/IMR4064/Fed210M/RWS/227RN Norma @ 2030fps and 42.5gr/AA2520/Fed210M/RWS/200Spt Speer (resized .323 to .318 diameter) @ 2350fps. I also had good sucess with 45.0gr/IMR4064/Fed210M/RWS/159RN RWS @2650fps and 44.0gr/IMR4064/Fed210M/RWS/180Spt (.308Spt Sierra "paper patched" with 2 wraps of bond paper) @ 2580fps.
None of the loads showed any signs of anything but moderate pressure, and all shot to POA in my gun. Very little data is available for this caliber, but old Norma reloading "pamphlets" and "Cartidges of the World" do give some information on reloading and "capabilities".
Interestingly, Norma places its power just below that of the 8X57JRS (.323 bore) which is probably due to the older "break action" guns being produced in this caliber rather than the design of the case.
I like mine just the way it is; seeing it as my lone "semi-wildcat" that can do it all. I even have a reduced load of 18.0gr/SR4759/175FNGC cast @ Unk vel. for fun target shooting and small game.
For "shotgunning" I've settled on 1oz lead loads of number 6 and 7 1/2 shot. I've also found a 1oz 16ga Brenneke slug to shoot POA out of the right barrel, while discovering a 3/4oz 20ga Winchester slug in a J-MAR "sleeve" (16ga to 20ga conversion) is close enough to the "flip up" rifle sights to make it usuable to at least 50 yards out of the left. Good luck!

Thanks. A very versatile calibre. When combined in a drilling with 16 gauge shot tubes it makes for a perfect weapon for hunting where I do in South Texas, where Whitetail, Hogs and Turkey are plentiful.