My uncle handed down my grandfathers Sauer drilling to me a few years back and I've decided to take it out for quail. It's a 16x16x7.65R with nice engraving of a boar on one side and a stag on the other.

I'm not sure how old the rifle is and was wondering if I needed to be careful about what type of ammo I feed it. As I live in California and our politicians have been motivated by PETA and the HSUS to require lead free ammo for all hunting in the state starting in 2014, I suppose I should start with ammo under that idiotic restrction.

Do you have any suggestions for lead free options and were I can get some 7.65R? Any suggestions for a lead free shot for the 16 gauge? All I've seen so far for the 7.65R that is lead free is Hornady 140 grain GMX and 127 grain RWS Green Bullet but do not know who sells them. Other than those, I've only found a few lead core offerings from Selliot & Bellot.

I might think twice about lead free ammo in this weapon. Definitely use Bismuth rather than steel shot and that should be fine, but I would worry about solid construction bullets. I don't really care for the design of the Hornady. A bullet with driving bands should be fine in your classic rifle, but I would not use a solid bullet constructed without them. There is often discussion on the AR Africa forum about modern solids and their use on "vintage" doubles. Lots of talk about damage to soldering etc. I would exercise caution but note that many driving band "lead-free" projectiles showed less "stress" on the barrels than traditionally constructed lead and steel jacketed solids. The designer of these bullets did a bunch of quite scientific tests on bullets across the board and it was enough to convince me that I would give them a serious SERIOUS look. Kinda limited on bullet weight, but maybe they have other offerings not listed here...

https://cuttingedgebullets.com...action&category=0284

I would use bismuth for lead free shot only, nothing else lead free. As to the 7x65R, I would use either the Prvi Partisan or the Sellier & Bellot. The Prvi Partisan is cheap and shoots great, and probably has the proper bullet weight for a gun of that age.

Take a look at your barrel under the forearm and at the break open point. Your proofs will be stamped there. That will tell you if the gun is nitro proofed or not and if it is modern steel or pre-war.

I've got a link to the German proofs I'll look it up and send it to you.

How are they going to check and see if you have lead shot or bismuth out in the field? Cut open your shells?

quote:

Originally posted by Macs B:
Take a look at your barrel under the forearm and at the break open point. Your proofs will be stamped there. That will tell you if the gun is nitro proofed or not and if it is modern steel or pre-war.

I've got a link to the German proofs I'll look it up and send it to you.

I checked, it is stamped as Nitro Proved. Also under there is a small stamp that looks like two foot prints. Below that towards the action it looks like it is stamped XM or WX under each of the shot barrels (depending on which way is up or down). Then XN or NX under the rifle barrel. On top of the barrels its says J.P SAUER & SOHN A.G. ECKERNFORDE. Just to the left and right of that are a triangle wih a hook coming off of each of the three points. Below it says BOHLER ANTINIT with a 6 pointed star between those two words. There is a button in the safety that unlocks it so it slides forward. As it slides foreward a rear sight blade pops up on the top rib that is stamped 100, I assume meters, not yards. The left side of the gun above the triggers is a switch that I assume disengages the two triggers(?).

I'll post some photos if I can releard how to use Photo Bucket. Though I need to post photos of my new Verney-Carron double rifle first.

Thanks guys for the info. Much appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
How are they going to check and see if you have lead shot or bismuth out in the field? Cut open your shells?

Good question. The state has had a small lead free zone up until 2014. WHen I've hunted there and they asked I toled them I was shooting Barnes TTX or showed them the box. Game Wardens in California are ruthless. In my experience they excercise zero discretion when it comes to violations. They just issue citations as it generates revenue and is where they get funding. But starting in 2014 it is lead free state wide for any hunting, even squirells. Now given that the state allows the use of air rifles for squirells and if I recall correctly upland game birds, I guess that means you have to use brass BB's and not lead pellets. The idiocy is astounding.

Pictures of the gun and the proof marks would be very helpful.
You might check with RST for Nice shot loaded ammo. Most likely you have a 65mm chamber, so I would use the shorter shells. Nice shot is a lead free shot that is designed for use in presteel barrels.
There has been a lot of retinking of banded monometal bullets in the last couple years. You owe it to yourself to read up on it. There is a lot of info here in the double rifle forum and on the Nitro Express forums. I think the development of and understanding of mono metals has come a long way. Check those sources out. You may decide that Barnes bullets will work for you. You might even want to call them and talk with them about using them.
Bfly

Kent might have tungsten-matrix in 16, if not them try RST. Wonder if they question your ammo and want to look at it if you could make them pay you for the shell? I have only been asked once here in Colorado, warden was a nice guy that I had talked to before. I told him what I was shooting, he looked at my M21 and just smiled and that was the end of it.
C.G.B.

The button on the top of the tang that causes the rear sight to rise is the selector for the rifle barrel, which is likely be the right barrel. That trigger may also have a small set screw if it is a set trigger. The screw adjusts weight of pull when the trigger is set. To set these set triggers, push it forward. The button on the side of the action is typically a Greener-type safety; depending on its orientation, typically up or back is safe, forward or down is fire. 7x65r is a great caliber, essentially a rimmed .280 Remington. Enjoy the gun.

I have shot Bismuth shot in the wifes and my Sauer Drillings in 12 ga with no problems.

OI would contact Hornady and see if the will recommend their lead free bullet for your rifle barrel.

Be sure and tell them it is on a Drilling.

I wouldn't trust any lead-free rifle bullet in a drilling. The barrels are far too thin for any current bullets.

Get out of that lunatic asylum.

I hate just living next to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fo Fiddy NE:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
How are they going to check and see if you have lead shot or bismuth out in the field? Cut open your shells?

Good question. The state has had a small lead free zone up until 2014. WHen I've hunted there and they asked I toled them I was shooting Barnes TTX or showed them the box. Game Wardens in California are ruthless. In my experience they excercise zero discretion when it comes to violations. They just issue citations as it generates revenue and is where they get funding. But starting in 2014 it is lead free state wide for any hunting, even squirells. Now given that the state allows the use of air rifles for squirells and if I recall correctly upland game birds, I guess that means you have to use brass BB's and not lead pellets. The idiocy is astounding.

In addition to being ruthless, they are pricks as well. And yes, they will cut open your shells, it's happened to me. When the lead ban goes into effect, I'm sure they will be issuing citations for even possessing lead ammo in the field, hunting or blasting rocks, it will make no difference. Shooting ranges will be next on the list, designated as "toxic waste areas."

Check to see what the chamber length of the 16ga barrels is. I have a Gebr. Merkel 16x16x30/30.
It was built in 1924, and has 2 1/2 inch chambers.
I shoot Polywads, they have a roll crimp and work with the shorter chambers. Lead, though.
16 ga didn't standardize to 2 3/4 until sometime in the 40's.