I'm new to this part of the forum, so first of all, hello and thanks to everyone out there for making this such a great place to spend some time.

Hopefully you can help me find what I'm looking for - or at least save me looking further for something that doesn't exist!

What I'm after is a combination gun that would be suitable for vermin, foxes and deer, and compact enough to keep in the cab as I'm going round the farm doing chores.

I don't feel the need for a smoothbore barrel, but I would like a combination of a .17HMR (or .22WMR) for stoats, squirrels, rabbits, magpies, crows and fox, plus a .243 (or maybe a 30/30) for muntjac and roe deer.

I don't anticipate shooting beyond 150m (a 100m gun would be fine almost all of the time).

Obviously it would in principle be possible to deal with all of these species with just one cartridge. However, UK licensing rules don't allow "deer calibres" (in England and Wales at least 6mm with a ME of at least 1700 FPE) to be used for vermin.

One option might be to fit a barrel insert (einstecklauf) in the smoothbore barrel of a standard combination gun, but the ones I've looked at (K&S, Keppeler) are expensive, and the only combination gun I've come across that offers rimfire chamberings is the Savage 24, which I imagine they were never designed to fit!

A year or so ago, however, I saw an interesting combination gun manufactured by a German company called Steinkamp.

Configured as a bull-pup, with superposed barrels and a rubber overmolded or laminate stock, it was available custom-built in a wide range of calibres.

At the time I didn't have a use for such a rifle so I didn't get more details, but now I wish I had.

A Google search reveales that Steinkamp do have a web site, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be active.

Does anyone have any knowledge of these guns, or know of any other manufacturer who makes a rimfire/centrefire bergstutzen?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I still haven't found any more on the Steinkamp, but I did find a company ( MCA Sports/Ace Bullet Company) that do rimfire and centrefire barrel inserts for smoothbore tubes for under $100, so it now looks as though it would be possible to configure a Savage 24 in 17HMR + 30/30... or, for that matter to convert a 20g O/U to .22WMR + 30/30.

Does anyone have any experience of these inserts and their performance?

you can have any of the ferlach, austria gunmakers fill your exact wishes. it won't be cheap like some production line gun, but it will be built exactly as you desire and stocked to your dimensions too.

There are two different kinds of barrel inserts for shotgun barrels that I'm familiar with: the first just drop into the chamber and come in rimfire and some centrefire pistol cartridges and are not at all accurate (eg 2"+ at ten feet). These are really useful to administer the "coupe de gras" as you carry one with a cartridge. they are of no use beyond a few feet.

The second type are fitted to the chamber and can be adjusted to bring the point of impact onto the rifle sights. These are made by Kriefgoff, Walther-Lothar etc and when properly set up are very accurate (2" at 50 yards for 22 Mag in my guns). They can be fitted and remnoved in about 2-3 minutes and may require a special tool. They keep their zero very well even after repeated fitting and removing. As they are quite complex and made to very high tolerances there are expensive but are well worth it.

It sounds like the latter type is what you need, along with a good combo gun. Brno/CZ used to make a very solid and rather nice handling combo in 7x57R/12ga. If you picked one of these up second hand along with an insert you'd be well equipped.

mike

if a 22 insert will help you i have 2 available. a prewar sempert & krieghoff ($350)
and a post war austrian make.($250) i can send pics next week if it will help you, tom

Tom and Mike,

thanks for your replies. I've been away from AR for a while or I'd have replied earlier.

Since I last posted, I've got myself a Brno 502.6 .243/12g, fitted it with a QD Kozap mount and a 1.5-5x20 scope.

The gun shoots very well as a 12g and OK in .243 , but it needs time to cool off between shots after the first two. I'm getting better accuracy as I learn to shoot the gun - it really doesn't like being shot off a rest and my best results so far (3 shots into 1.75" @ 100yd) have been obtained kneeling unsupported! - and as I work on my handloads.

I'm still looking into getting an einstecklauf for it, however, and currently discussing with a local (but expert) gunsmith a plan to make one in .17 Ackley Hornet.

Tom,

notwithstanding the above, I'm interested in your .22 inserts, and grateful to you for the offer of photos. Also: Do you think it would be feasible to rechamber a .22LR insert for .22WMR?

Thanks again

Jules

I've got a Ferlacher combo gun 7x65R/12/70 with a shotgun barrel set and a einstecklauf in .22 Hornet for the shotgun barrel of the combo. The Hornet barrel has quite a bad erosion but the accuracy is still acceptable, about 2" in 100 meters. The einstecklauf seems to be made by Keller&Simmann. Here you can see their products for sale: http://www.triebel.de/suche.php3?begriff=wgr&value=LEI

and here is their homepage: http://www.einstecklauf.de/

Their quality is great and with good care you can probably keep your einstecklauf in good shape for decades and have better accuracy than I have with mine. The erosion in my barrell is most likely result from poor cleaning by the previous owner.

hi julio, both my inserts are sold. they were 16 ga so wouldn't work well in a 12 !

there is a company in austria that made one of them.... whose name i forget. maybe you can find them on the internet.

yes, there should be no reason you could not rechamber them to 22 mag rimfire.

check out the website referenced with the 22 hornet insert.

at the price for the insert you can buy another rifle !! it's true.

all the inserts i've owned have been 16 ga, but maybe other cals are available used .

good luck ! tom

julio, i still have pictures of my inserts. they are only about 9" long.

i can't [post pics here . if you send me your e mail i can send them to you

tom cabletools@alltel.net

Thanks again, guys!

I've checked out most of the E-lauf manufacturers now: the products look very well made - particularly the K&S ones -, but the prices are pretty steep, and I'm not much encouraged by the fact that so far none of the companies I've contacted has replied to my e-mails (I did write in English though - maybe I should get a German-speaking friend to help me try again?).

At the same time I've been keeping an eye on www.Egun.de in case I can pick up a good s/h insert barrel from there, but I haven't been lucky yet since most sellers aren't interested in selling internationally, even within the EU.

In view of all this, I'm quite taken by the idea of a locally-built E-lauf in .17AH, especially since the gunsmith reckons he can make use of the free space between the muzzle of the 16" insert barrel and the 24" shotgun barrel to incorporate a sound moderator.

A friend, who is a much more experienced and expert reloader than I am, has offered to show me how to form the brass and lend me the necessary dies too, so it looks like this could be the best direction to take the project, particularly because I can source everything I need within 50 miles of home.

Thanks again for your help,

Jules