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I thought the LCTF's strategy was to tip toe around the scientist and not piss them off by accepting whatever restrictions they see as appropriate, maybe I was mistaken, I can only go off of what you and others have said in these discussions. | |||
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your biggest mistake was thinking in the first place | |||
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what an appropriate statement by a member of the LCTF, SIEG HEIL! | |||
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when your thoughts are so off base what else is there. we are not tip toeing anywhere and we are not trying to or not to piss anyone off we are just trying to get over one hurdle which for the life of me i can't see how you do not see that. I am not speaking of better lion consevation here in the big picture just trying to stop the uplisting and I to am sorry that politics will play a part but that just happens to be the way it is.I will also say many of the ideas and the comments that you have made are really good things for the lions and alot of them I would think would be a part of what we are all trying to do. I would support better science over different areas and i would also be in favor of a different quota system and I am in favor of stopping the poison and I even voiced that at the meeting which I do not think you were there. If you had been many of the accusations that you cast on the LCTF are not any of what I heard. Why is it hard to say that laying off young lions to win a battle so that you can get to the war is a bad thing.I am not cutting you down anymore as I was wrong for doing so but I am disturbed why you can not just help with the small battle and get it behind us so we can ALL get together and become a powerful force to help us and the lion. I think that is reasonable but you may not think so and I believe had you been at the meeting you would see that the young lion thing is the thing that can make or break the petition from the lowly hunters side and the lobbyist and politics will take on the other parts to try and win on the petition. if that happens i think you and I could agree then that many things need to be done and we could help. By the way I have never said I agree with CP but I am not foolish enough to think that his voice is not a big stick. All of these threads are picking back and forth about BS that can not be changed if the petition gets through so lets together as hunters kill it and then bring every idea you have to the table and I for one will listen with respect and probably agree with them. I would like for you to try and see the point that posting these pictures does not help the immediate situation. If you feel the need to cut everything I have said down don't bother but if you really want to work as a team at least give me and the LCTF the benefit of having been at the meeting with JJ and heard first hand the battle at hand. Thank you | |||
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are you bipolar? did you not just tell me on the previous post that my "biggest mistake was thinking"? How does that even remotely stay in line with your post above? | |||
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no I am not bipolar and I will admit to having faults and i am man enough to say so. my post was one of emotion rather than fact you can accept that or not. If you read my post above i was trying to tell you what I heard at the meeting not that what i heard was the best or better than what you say just what i heard period. Should I have posted that your biggest mistake was thinking NO I should not have.You have a voice and you surely are entitled to say what ever you want, I simply think my comment is not going to help us stop the petition and I should have thought about it more. That does not make me bipolar. I would guess if you went back and read your post you would think maybe you should not have said what you said maybe not but I know I have. I am truely scared of the uplisting as I have 4 hunts booked for lions and I am assuming out of four I will get a big lion so I really want to bring it home.I guess you can take this post as somehow cutting you down in some way but in fact it is not it is just telling you that i want the petition to fail. I said what i said about young lions because I heard the comments from JJ and the Scientist and not just CP but actually others that this is one of the things that will cause it to pass. | |||
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Are you with the LCTF? I thought this was about THE lion, not YOUR lion? | |||
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Yes I am a member. I did not say it was only about my lion. But yes I do like to hunt and would like to be able to import one if i am lucky enough to get one. Is that the only sentence you read I said and have said I would like lion populations to remain stable so my grandchildren will be able to hunt them also. The problem is without importation I am afraid our efforts will be mute sadly because of money.operators will lose money and countries will lose money and down the line. I would think you support hunting rights for many reasons but i am quite certain one of them is so YOU can hunt. | |||
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no need to crawfish, I think it makes a tremendous point about the importance of hunters valueing game. I also would encourage you to continue being honest about your position as your statement about being scared of the scientist and their actions as well as your post about your personal concerns with the uplisting have been far more enlightening and productive than your co-members slithering. | |||
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505 gibbs Why do you and STU always have to put in a sarcastic put down. You are obviously an educated ,intelligent man, so why always the arrogance? SSR | |||
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I felt like I was being honest the whole time. This has been my first priority from the start, kill the petition. I am sure the scientist can do what they need to and hopefully one comes in without an agenda.Truthfully that is mostly what I heard at the meeting and I am not sure where all this other stuff came from. I am by means crawfishing its just we keep talking about all of these ideas and we will not be able to debate them if that petition goes through. I don't need encouragement to be honest and that is a fact. I was not a member when the first lion was posted and all this started I joined after that and I have said I wish things would have been different but it is what it is. I have no monetary interest in this game and I do love hunting but when you see how the anti's get away with things it gets you boiling and sometimes that is not good. I have told you the truth about what I heard about young lions and not from LCTF but from 3 different people entirely and it just seemed like it was doable but I may have been wrong. Hopefully not. | |||
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Nothing in the post you quoted was sarcastic, I meant it very sincerely. I was making a distinct point for those sharp enough to catch it and Gerry confirmed that point in his reply. Why don't you (and others) get past the point that you either do not like me or I rub you the wrong way and realize that I am not talking to hear my self rattle, I actually view things differently. | |||
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Brad, My appologies since i misunderstood you, but you do come across that way. Just as Lane and Aaron sometimes come across as pendantic and arrogant. I think we are letting personalities get in the way of progress And-letting the perfect be the enemy of the Good. Much of what STU says is good from a strictly scientific point, but impossible across several counties from a political one. I can say that in my opinion it is impossible to arrive at a settled,cross biome plan for lion management --in the time available. Lets stop the bleeding now and work on the perfect later. You seem to not see that your objections to current plans will Always be there because conditions change every year. Here in Texas we had a wonderful wet year last year and are now in a record drought. If we had lions the plans would have to change-- I dont know you and have nothing personal in this, except I hope to hunt lions someday. Hope to see you at a campfire sometime-you obviously care about things--just dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good | |||
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CrossL, I hear what you are saying, however, I feel the LCTF's approach spells certain doom for the lion. Let's start with some simple questions: 1) Have you read the paper I posted from Craig Packer? 2) Would you agree that Craig Packer states in his paper that decreased harvest of Lions by sporthunting indicate a decreasing population? 3) Would you agree that Craig Packer states that a decreasing population of lions is the reason protection for the species is needed? Also, I do not mind if you refer to me by my given name, but feel I should know yours if you do. Thanks | |||
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Brad, There is no doubt that I have gotten off on the wrong foot with you. If there is a way to correct it...I would like to. One thing we agree on is that we want to save lion hunting. I disagree with many things CP says and does. You are right to keep a watchful eye out as do I. All we LCTF members have agreed with him on is the fact that the regular taking <5 year olds should stop. I disagree with you on the fact that we should not try to work with him on stopping the ESA listing. As Gerry has said, if we stop that, we can work on other things. Can we agree that stopping ESA listing is paramount? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Conservation African Lions Hunting Management And Ecology The Animal Rights Extremists Nearing Victory in California
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